New material

[Mickeyboro]

Every band has a way of introducing new material.

 

How does your band do it? Does anyone have a veto? Can anyone suggest songs or just one/a few? What if it stretches the band’s envelope? How many songs make it to rehearsal and not the set? Have there been fallouts and fights?

[neepheid]

Are you talking covers or originals?  Or does it matter (other than there's an extra creative phase, licking a song idea into shape)?

[gjones]

Any band I've been in which was a democracy, always folded due to disagreements about the choice of songs.

 

The only bands I've been in that had any longevity, were those where the singer created the band around themselves and picked all the songs we played.

 

If the singer can't sing, or doesn't want to sing the songs picked by the drummer (which is usually always the case), then the band is going nowhere fast.

 

I don't join bands that are democracies, because in my experience, they usually have a limited lifespan.

 

Although there are exceptions to the rule, I have a friend, who plays in a band, in which he (guitarist) the other guitarist and the bass player all sing. The person that picks the song sings it. And they've been gigging for about 20 years without anybody throwing their toys out of the pram.

[Acebassmusic]

Several different ways of doing this as you say......my experiences relate to covers bands. With bands where I've been the leader I've always asked everyone for ideas, get a general take on the track from the band whether it's one they want to do and practice it from there. Final decision whether it fits in the usual repertoire / we play it well enough / good feedback at gigs was down to me but with input from everyone. Hopefully it was seen as relatively "fair". I think its termed "benevolent dictatorship" 🤣

 

In the last 2 established bands I've joined I was asked for my input into the setlist. In both cases I submitted a selection of approx. 50 songs which I thought were in line with the existing setlist. In neither band have any of the tracks been taken up, even at rehearsal level. Song selection seems to be based on random tracks from the band leaders current favourite band which are immediately fast tracked into the setlist. Don't get me wrong some of the songs are good but why ask for input then just ignore it? 🤷‍♂️

[Mykesbass]

Everyone should have a veto. No point getting someone to play something they hate. Singer should have a slightly stronger say on material they are happy singing. But as with everything, there should be a bit of give and take.

[Doctor J]

I can only speak for original bands but, in my experience, the better ones were ones where everyone got to have their say but which had a de facto leader, who provided overall direction and generally had the casting vote. Full democracies with no leadership tended to progress a lot slower and eventually fell apart, without fail. You won't all love every song but, usually, everybody gets enough of what they like to get behind the band and the music.

 

Get with the program or (politely) get out is the whole of the law.

[NHM]

11 minutes ago, Mykesbass said:

Everyone should have a veto. No point getting someone to play something they hate. Singer should have a slightly stronger say on material they are happy singing. But as with everything, there should be a bit of give and take.

This is spot on, there's no point expecting the singer to sing material they can't 'own'.

[Dan Dare]

12 minutes ago, Mykesbass said:

Everyone should have a veto. No point getting someone to play something they hate. Singer should have a slightly stronger say on material they are happy singing. But as with everything, there should be a bit of give and take.

 

I feel that's taking it a little too far. Certainly, if the majority don't like or want to play a number, it's reasonable not to do it, but if only one or two object, that shouldn't rule it out. Yes, the singer has to be happy they can put it over and that it suits them, but if that's the case, fine. We play a few I'm not that fond of, but playing a song I don't like is only 3 or 4 minutes out of my life and if it goes down well with an audience, I'm happy to go along with it.

 

If I don't like a song, I try to play it as well as I can and get satisfaction from a job done right, rather than enjoyment of the music itself. It's much the same as the attitude one has to take at work.

[Doctor J]

If the singer physically can't sing a song but someone insists it's part of the list, they should be able to sing it themselves to a higher standard or be kicked out for putting their own whims ahead of the interests of the band. It's just silly that someone would insist on such a thing in those circumstances.

[Lozz196]

Def agree if a song isn’t in a key the singer can sing in.

 

Really hate it when a singer vetos a song with the phrase “because I can’t remember the words”.

 

Then learn them asshat.

 

 

[Dan Dare]

2 minutes ago, Lozz196 said:

Def agree if a song isn’t in a key the singer can sing in.

 

If the original key isn't achievable by a singer, the band should transpose. Not all keys suit all voices. That's especially true if one is getting on a bit. You tend to lose the higher register with age.

[Mickeyboro]

1 hour ago, neepheid said:

Are you talking covers or originals?  Or does it matter (other than there's an extra creative phase, licking a song idea into shape)?

I was going to say covers, but why restrict the discussion? 
I managed to get a song into the set of the last originals band i played with by digging out a demo from 1980 and playing it to the songwriting duo. They thought it had been done last week, snd I only told them later😂

[neepheid]

45 minutes ago, Mickeyboro said:

I was going to say covers, but why restrict the discussion? 
I managed to get a song into the set of the last originals band i played with by digging out a demo from 1980 and playing it to the songwriting duo. They thought it had been done last week, snd I only told them later😂

 

No need to restrict it, was debating with myself whether or not a distinction needed to be made.

 

Originals, I've seen it go various ways - with a songwriting duo where the drummer and I were sidemen ("if you want to write songs, go form another band" - I appreciated the honesty), to the more collaborative approach I'm used to these days with The Inevitable Teaspoons - where someone will bring in anything from the beginning of an idea to a mostly finished song and we all get to work on refining our parts and make suggestions about others.  The collaborative approach is slower, but it's enjoyable, and it's a hobby so we're not exactly bothered if we only release an album once ever 6 years.

 

In the covers band, we're all free to make suggestions, and while we all have a veto we don't tend to use it unless the song is obvious cheese, we try to think about songs from an audience point of view.  I do play a couple of songs I can't abide, but it's not about me, the audiences love it and entertaining them is the primary reason for us doing it in the first place.  Most suggestions get at least tried - sometimes they fall by the wayside because they sound naff in a single guitar situation, sometimes they'll get as far as a gig and fall flat on their faces, other times they'll naturally drift out of the setlist because we notice they're not doing so well or because we've got bored playing it, or replaced it with something better that does a similar job.  There's no tinpot dictator or central figure - we all work together for the good of the show.  We're as busy as we want to be so I'd like to think that the strategy works.

[asingardenof]

We just suggest stuff, and if 4/5 of us like it we'll give it a go for sure, but if 3/5 like it and the other two are just ambivalent we'll probably look at it at least in passing. If it doesn't work we'll bin it and think of something else. Yes, it's chaos.

 

I've scattergunned suggestions during my tenure and so far only one has made it into the set 😂

[tauzero]

We all suggest songs, there's generally either a degree of enthusiasm or not. Songs that get a reception of lukewarm upwards will probably get a run through and if we think it'll work, it gets properly rehearsed.

 

In a previous band, we had a spreadsheet of suggestions. Each of us had a vote - want to do it, don't like it, indifferent. There were enough suggestions that if anyone didn't like a song, we didn't try it. Mrs Zero was the vocalist and vetoed the most, but she vetoed seven out of almost 100 suggestions so it wasn't as if she was knocking down most suggestions.

[TimR]

We all suggest songs and the singer decides if she can sing them. Usually based on whether she has heard it before. 

 

The songs have to be well known. Occasionally the singer will learn a song if she's never heard it before but can be convinced it's really well known. But if its not immediately recognisable to all of us it's generally a pointless exercise as the audience will have a similar reaction.

 

As @neepheid writes:No point in learning songs we all like, we are playing to an audience, they've got to go down well. 

 

10 hours ago, gjones said:

If the singer can't sing, or doesn't want to sing the songs picked by the drummer (which is usually always the case), then the band is going nowhere fast.

 

I don't know what that kind of drummer is thinking, or listens to. It's fairly common in my experience. I try to play with drummers who can play other instruments. 

 

 

There's thousands of songs, if you're not too careful your setlist can be too diverse, or not diverse enough.

 

Edited November 15, 2023 by TimR

[Burns-bass]

We have a shared Spotify list where we put songs. All of us listen to the list for a few weeks and we decide what we like and don’t like.

 

Sometimes you can have a negative reaction to a song (few from the Blues Brothers, for me), which I actually liked and agreed to play after listening to them.

 

This only works with covers!

[NancyJohnson]

I'm just off the back of a year in a band where the singer was only interested in the same dozen songs - one cover and eight or nine from his professional career - all but two were things me and the guitarist had done a couple of years previously which the band were already playing before I joined.  Over the prior 10-15 years (I suppose where I was able to record decent demos at home on a DAW), songs would just flow out of me; I have dozens and dozens of complete songs, partially finished ideas.

 

Of course I submitted loads of stuff, old and new - we were a four piece, but ultimately if the singer didn't like the material ('I don't think that it's suitable,' was the common line), then it never got past our little WhatsApp group - this even applied when the three musicians in the band said 'yay'.  

[ezbass]

I joined a mod band in January and it’s not a genre that I know a lot about. The singer and band leader loves his mod stuff (as you’d expect) so he knows what we need to stay on topic and what he sing. The way it goes is that he provides a list of songs he’s interested in and we pick what we fancy from the list. What this means in reality, because I’m retired and look at messages pretty quickly, is that the list arrives, I pick what I fancy and everyone seems to go along with those. Seems ideal, for me at least  .

[Dan Dare]

6 hours ago, TimR said:

I try to play with drummers who can play other instruments. 

 

I try to play with drummers who can play the drums...

[TimR]

1 hour ago, Dan Dare said:

 

I try to play with drummers who can play the drums...

 

Ideally they should be able to play drums as well. Maybe even own their own kit and transport. 

[Happy Jack]

Some interesting replies there, a few of them a million miles away from where I'm at, but it's all good. 😂

 

In both my two main bands over the last 15 years song choices have been largely democratic but every member (they're both 3-piece, one used to be 4-piece) has a veto ... we may beach about that veto being employed, but it's never over-ruled.

 

Both bands have a pretty clearly-defined musical 'territory' that they cover, so that immediately averts most of the pointless arguments. In fact one guitarist actually got sacked by the covers band (specialising in the 60s & 70s) precisely because he turned up at a rehearsal in 2011 or 2012 suddenly insisting that we absolutely had to cover Paparazzi. 🙄

 

The R'n'R band is different in that the vocalist / front man takes lead on every song. If Damo doesn't want to sing something then it ain't gonna happen. In the covers band all three of us are capable of taking lead vocals, and that has led to the first response to any suggested new material being: "So, are you going to sing it?"

 

[Happy Jack]

8 hours ago, TimR said:

The songs have to be well known. Occasionally the singer will learn a song if she's never heard it before but can be convinced it's really well known. But if its not immediately recognisable to all of us it's generally a pointless exercise as the audience will have a similar reaction.

 

It took me well over 10 years ... TEN F***ING YEARS ... to get this simple fact through to the drummer in my covers band.

[bassbiscuits]

Two of the bands I’m in are regular dep jobs, so I play whatever the band has decided upon. 
 

The other band I play in does a mix of covers and originals, so we all chip in with ideas for both, with the understanding that if it isn’t working for the greater good then we leave it out generally. 
 

We’ve got an agreement to be open with each other about it and not take it badly if something doesn’t work. 
 

So far so good 

[lozkerr]

I'm in two bands and they both have different approaches.

 

In the 80s covers band, we use a voting system. We're a six-piece band, so each of us suggest two songs. We then cast six votes. The most popular six are worked up and rehearsed a few times and we then decide yay/nay. Obviously, the singers' views carry most weight there. It's worked well so far.

 

In the punk band, it depends on whether a suggestion is a cover or an original. If it's a cover, we'll try it out provided it fits our overall vibe of angry feminism, making changes as needed. If it's an original, we'll spend time trying out different ideas to see if something workable emerges. It helps that we have two songwriters who work well together, plus a band leader who openly admits that she's a control freak but is careful not to interfere with the creative process. For my part, I tend to listen to the rehearsal recordings and jot down ideas to try out at the next session. 

 

Both approaches have produced good results.