Hearing protection

[ambient]

The students where I work had a really interesting talk from the guy who runs a company called DCA yesterday. They specialise in IEMs and hearing protection for musicians.

 

They don't use latex in the moulding process. They have a tiny little laser scanner that takes just a minute or so to 3D map the inside of your ear.

 

He did an experiment using one of the students playing drums along to music played through a normal fold-back type monitor. He held an SPL meter by the student’s head and got a reading of about 102db. 

 

He then repeated the experiment, this time the student used a pair of IEMs for monitoring. This time the SPL meter peaked at 85db.

 

You can see why so many bands, at all levels, are switching to IEMs.

 

I have tinnitus, particularly badly in my left ear. When I gigged a lot I invariably used to stand with the drummer to my left.

 

He gave out these handy stickers.

[PaulWarning]

I think all us oldies know the benefits of ear plugs, because most of us have damaged hearing, stable door and horses spring to mind, hopefully the youngsters will listen to that warnings the we never got, not holding my breath though.

The debate is whether pay out hundreds of £s on proper moulded ones or off the shelf generics, I couldn't get on with moulded ones

Edited November 18, 2023 by PaulWarning

[Coilte]

8 minutes ago, PaulWarning said:

I think all us oldies know the benefits of ear plugs, because most of us have damaged hearing, stable door and horses spring to mind, hopefully the youngsters will listen to the warnings the we never got, not holding my breath though.

The debate is whether pay out hundreds of £s on proper moulded ones or off the shelf generics, I couldn't get on with moulded ones

 

I totally agree, but would suggest buying the best ear protection they can afford. If people are wiling to pay a lot of money for gear, they should make good quality ear protection top of the list. You can always replace gear, but once your hearing deteriorates, it can't be replaced. 

[neepheid]

16 minutes ago, PaulWarning said:

I think all us oldies know the benefits of ear plugs, because most of us have damaged hearing, stable door and horses spring to mind, hopefully the youngsters will listen to the warnings the we never got, not holding my breath though.

The debate is whether pay out hundreds of £s on proper moulded ones or off the shelf generics, I couldn't get on with moulded ones

 

Well, I know some people disagree with this viewpoint, but I believe that some protection is better than none.  Are generics as good as custom moulded ones?  Of course not.  Are they better than nothing?  Absolutely!

 

I use generics, and I seem to remember having a stand up argument with someone who was telling me how wrong I was because they used generics and got tinnitus anyway.  I guess that would make you bitter, if you took what seemed like reasonable precautions and still got screwed over.  Well, I just took the same entrenched position that they work fine for me.  It was a really quite boringly predictable internet bun fight.

 

That reminds me, it's probably time for me to renew my generics, had them a few years now.

Edited November 18, 2023 by neepheid

[AlexDelores]

I recently bought custom moulded IEMs and ACS plugs from Miles at DCA. I was actually planning on putting together a post just to give him a shout out as his service was so good! 
 

If anyone is in the market for moulded IEMs or just looking for advice, he’s so knowledgable and happy to offer advice. 
 

I’m not someone with a lot of knowledge on the subject but I knew what I wanted from my IEMs. I had reservations about chucking a wedge of money at something I couldn’t try first. He made the process super easy. Came to my house, let me try a handful of different brands and price points and helped me make an unbiased decision. 

 

He used the 3D scan process the OP mentioned and it was super simple and they fit absolutely bang on out of the box when they were delivered. 
 

 

[ambient]

21 minutes ago, AlexDelores said:

I recently bought custom moulded IEMs and ACS plugs from Miles at DCA. I was actually planning on putting together a post just to give him a shout out as his service was so good! 
 

If anyone is in the market for moulded IEMs or just looking for advice, he’s so knowledgable and happy to offer advice. 
 

I’m not someone with a lot of knowledge on the subject but I knew what I wanted from my IEMs. I had reservations about chucking a wedge of money at something I couldn’t try first. He made the process super easy. Came to my house, let me try a handful of different brands and price points and helped me make an unbiased decision. 

 

He used the 3D scan process the OP mentioned and it was super simple and they fit absolutely bang on out of the box when they were delivered. 
 

 

 

Indeed. I teach across two campuses and got to see his talk and demonstration twice at two venues. Yesterday though, when we went into the live room next to the classroom, and he did the experiment with the drummer, it really showed just how much more controlled the sound could be, and just how loud it was otherwise.

 

I don't teach on the performance modules. If I did though I'd certainly be buying a set of customs to protect what's left of my hearing.

Edited November 18, 2023 by ambient

[AlexDelores]

9 minutes ago, ambient said:

 

Indeed. I teach across two campuses and got to see his talk and demonstration twice at two venues. Yesterday though, when we went into the live room next to the classroom, and he did the experiment with the drummer, it really showed just how much more controlled the sound was.

 

I don't teach on the performance modules. If I did though I'd certainly be buying a set of customs to protect what's left of my hearing.

Out of interest, what is the response from your students post demonstration? 
 

Do you think it’s something they may take more seriously now or not? 
 

obviously, most of us at some point would probably be guilty of laughing off the need for hearing protection when we were younger. 
 

Just curious to know whether it’s still sort of brushed off even now that there's a lot more information available showing the potential consequences of ignoring your ear health? 

[warwickhunt]

Are you saying that the student played the drums 'less hard' when wearing IEMs as opposed to having music played back through monitors?  Yep that seems obvious and not a great surprise at all. 

 

We've experimented going silent stage using IEM and our drummer confessed to it being easier as he didn't have to play harder to hear over the backline.  It didn't work for us using IEM however as I was never comfortable (physically) with them and didn't like the sound etc (ditto the drummer).  The guitarist singer continues IEM but the drummer and I are happier with me using no backline to carry bass to FOH (it goes DI to PA) but I do use a 10" powered monitor mounted on a pole off to the side of stage; both drummer and I have worn hearing protection for 25 years plus.  

 

One size doesn't suit all but SOME form of hearing protection is a must.

[ambient]

26 minutes ago, warwickhunt said:

Are you saying that the student played the drums 'less hard' when wearing IEMs as opposed to having music played back through monitors?  Yep that seems obvious and not a great surprise at all. 

 

We've experimented going silent stage using IEM and our drummer confessed to it being easier as he didn't have to play harder to hear over the backline.  It didn't work for us using IEM however as I was never comfortable (physically) with them and didn't like the sound etc (ditto the drummer).  The guitarist singer continues IEM but the drummer and I are happier with me using no backline to carry bass to FOH (it goes DI to PA) but I do use a 10" powered monitor mounted on a pole off to the side of stage; both drummer and I have worn hearing protection for 25 years plus.  

 

One size doesn't suit all but SOME form of hearing protection is a must.

 

It's how much less hard he was playing though and how much quieter he was. If you look at the chart on the sticker I posted a photo of, there was probably about 30 minutes of safe exposure before the level would start to cause damage. 

 

Believe me, I've heard far louder drummers than the student.

 

I've left bands because they were too loud.

[ambient]

48 minutes ago, AlexDelores said:

Out of interest, what is the response from your students post demonstration? 
 

Do you think it’s something they may take more seriously now or not? 
 

obviously, most of us at some point would probably be guilty of laughing off the need for hearing protection when we were younger. 
 

Just curious to know whether it’s still sort of brushed off even now that there's a lot more information available showing the potential consequences of ignoring your ear health? 

 

I think they were quite surprised. Dan wasn't playing particularly hard. He was rather nervous.

 

It was a shame Miles hadn't done the live drummer demonstration the previous day at the other campus.

[chris_b]

£160 for hearing protection is cheap, compared to the £2-3000 that good hearing aids cost.

[neepheid]

24 minutes ago, chris_b said:

£160 for hearing protection is cheap, compared to the £2-3000 that good hearing aids cost.

 

You're not wrong, but humour being my goto on the Internet I I thought of several ways to go with this.  The old classic "WHAT?" really works better in person when you get the person to repeat themselves, doesn't really work here.  I did consider asking if you would like me to let you know when I inevitably get tinnitus for cheaping out on my hearing protection so you could have an opportunity to say I told you so, but that seemed far too prickly for humour so I deleted it.

 

But it's not really a joking matter, is it?  I honestly can't go back to using nothing - be it attending gigs or playing at them, I sometimes quickly take a plug out and put it back in to remind myself why I'm wearing them and it sounds like someone's attacking my ear canals with power tools.

Edited November 18, 2023 by neepheid

[warwickhunt]

I once joined a new band and vividly remember the guitarist mocking me for my ear plugs... 2 minutes later he asked if we could swap stage sides as he was deaf in one ear from years of playing on that side with a loud drummer!  The irony wasn't lost on me.    

[chris_b]

I was travelling to a gig in the guitarists van and had to ask him to turn down the volume on the SatNav. It was so loud it was hurting my ears!!!

 

 

I would never disagree with a band when I'm depping, but once the usual grumbles spilled over into a full argument about stage volume. As usual I couldn't hear the other band members for the very loud guitarist, only this gig he was even worse. He told me to take out the ear plugs. I said, "No, because I don't want to end up deaf like you". He replied, "I'm not deaf!" Ironically, he'd just had 10 mins of the singer telling him he was playing too loud. His reply, "Loud? Me? I always play at this volume. I'm not too loud!" Bloody guitarists!

[PaulWarning]

1 hour ago, chris_b said:

£160 for hearing protection is cheap, compared to the £2-3000 that good hearing aids cost.

For anybody that's thinking about hearing aids. Good hearing aids are available from the NHS, I know, I've got some 🙂 go see your doctor and get a referral

[Paul S]

5 minutes ago, PaulWarning said:

For anybody that's thinking about hearing aids. Good hearing aids are available from the NHS, I know, I've got some 🙂 go see your doctor and get a referral

 

Absolutely.  I've been wearing NHS hearing aids for the past 16 years.  They aren't those huge pink banana-shaped objects any more!  I have cutting edge digital ones.  For gigs I can reduce the volume via an app. so that, effectively, I have my own IEMs.  Audiology depts don't seem to suffer like many areas of the NHS.  At least, not locally.  I can get an appointment within a week, generally, and drop-in for free replacement batteries from any of the nearby clinics that have them available.  Brilliant service.