Is there such a thing as a simple, compact pedal that can profile/capture amps as per a Kemper profiler

[warwickhunt]

I realise you get Helix and NuX pedals that have their own presets, cab SIMs and IRs etc but is there a compact pedal that allows you to profile/capture amps (and cabs) without all of the bells and whistles of a Kemper profiler.  

 

I know you can get a Kemper 'Stage' board but I don't need nor want 9 buttons/switches and all of the 'rig' capabilities of the full blown Kemper.  

 

Is profiling/capturing solely the domain of Kemper or does another manufacturer offer this?  

 

As a gigging bassist I want the ability to profile an amp/cab of mine and store it in a simple pedal format.  

[WinterMute]

The Quad Cortex from Neural DSP does a very similar job, but is the same kind of "rig in a box" that the Helix etc are.

 

Their Neural Capture feature allows you to capture the sound of an amp or pre-amp and store it as a editable patch, this can include cabs or you can create IR's to simulate the cab separately.

 

It's a very successful if somewhat complex process that makes for useable hardware models.

 

Not a cheap option by any means though, same kind of money as the other big players, it is, however, a lot smaller and is very easy to use with it's touchscreen and rotary footswitches.

 

I replaced an HX Stomp with mine and I regularly work with a veteran Helix user, I prefer the QC to the Helix. I think it's a better system than the Kemper, although probably not quite as stellar as the Fractal Systems pro unit.

[Owen]

ToneX? I have one. But have not had time to actually mess with it. I need to sort my life out. 

[warwickhunt]

6 minutes ago, WinterMute said:

The Quad Cortex from Neural DSP does a very similar job, but is the same kind of "rig in a box" that the Helix etc are.

 

Their Neural Capture feature allows you to capture the sound of an amp or pre-amp and store it as a editable patch, this can include cabs or you can create IR's to simulate the cab separately.

 

It's a very successful if somewhat complex process that makes for useable hardware models.

 

Not a cheap option by any means though, same kind of money as the other big players, it is, however, a lot smaller and is very easy to use with it's touchscreen and rotary footswitches.

 

I replaced an HX Stomp with mine and I regularly work with a veteran Helix user, I prefer the QC to the Helix. I think it's a better system than the Kemper, although probably not quite as stellar as the Fractal Systems pro unit.

 

Appreciate the input but again, way more complex than I'd ever want, need or use.  I actually bought a used Kemper Profiler (Toaster) and the capture process is excellent and 95%+ of the sound of the real thing BUT I've ended up having to go to the far end of a fart to set it up to use live, which has been achievable BUT... as soon as I swapped basses I was needing to access sub menus to alter the input clean sensitivity.  A pedal that can get that 95%+ of the amp it is capturing but in a simple 4 or 5 dial format would be sweet.

[Owen]

I have been close to the QC thing a couple of times. But realised that for what I do it would be MAHOOOOSIVE overkill. The ToneX is as guitar oriented as everything else is, but there are captures of nice things out there. I will try the Noble once I work out how to do it. This is not saying it is hard, I have just not tried yet. 

[warwickhunt]

1 minute ago, Owen said:

I have been close to the QC thing a couple of times. But realised that for what I do it would be MAHOOOOSIVE overkill. The ToneX is as guitar oriented as everything else is, but there are captures of nice things out there. I will try the Noble once I work out how to do it. This is not saying it is hard, I have just not tried yet. 

 

Nothing in any of the off the shelf supplied samples has ever been good enough for my tastes and as for the cab sims... don't get me started!  LOL

 

As with all of these things they are guitar oriented which means the architecture is generally over complex for 'many' bassists needs.  I want my amp in a pint size pedal that has an in/out gain + 3 band EQ controls.  If you could do the capture thing and store half a dozen of your favourite amps that could be easily manipulated, I'd be happy as a pig in poop.  

[Owen]

It sounds like you are looking for the ToneX then. There is a thread on TB about them. 

[Owen]

https://www.talkbass.com/threads/ik-tonex-pedal.1597234/

[warwickhunt]

Spent a LOT of hours this week doing tests and tweaks but I've come to the conclusion that of these digitally available technologies, I'm not going to get what I need or like.  Honestly, a tough call as some of the captures I've done have been so close to the genuine article that it has been staggering BUT I can hear a difference and despite knowing that to virtually every 'punter' there's no difference, I'd rather it was 100% OK for me.  I'm a dinosaur and destined to remain that way!  LOL

 

[3below]

Have you thought about/tried using impulse responses rather than amp sims?  I sometimes use a Sonicake IR loader pedal (cheap) to help shape my EUB sound, some of the free cab and amp IRs seem really good. I have reached the stage that most of the time playing live I just accept that the room acoustics, amount of audience, pa, volume etc. will eradicate any subtlety and nuance in bass tone so I just work on getting it sounding superb/excellent/good/adequate/less-than-crap/sh*te as best I can.  Recording I just DI and let someone else sprinkle the magic fairy dust for a good bass tone.  I have an admiration for guitarists and bass players who can hack effects pedals, I never cease to be amazed at our keyboard player with innumerable presets and who knows what.  Me, I just plug it in and play,  dinosaur ++.

Edited November 20, 2023 by 3below

[SamIAm]

7 hours ago, warwickhunt said:

I realise you get Helix and NuX pedals that have their own presets, cab SIMs and IRs etc but is there a compact pedal that allows you to profile/capture amps (and cabs) without all of the bells and whistles of a Kemper profiler.  

 

I know you can get a Kemper 'Stage' board but I don't need nor want 9 buttons/switches and all of the 'rig' capabilities of the full blown Kemper.  

 

Is profiling/capturing solely the domain of Kemper or does another manufacturer offer this?  

 

As a gigging bassist I want the ability to profile an amp/cab of mine and store it in a simple pedal format.  

Might not be small enough, but you can do neural modelling on the MOD Dwarf using the Aida-X plugin.

https://mod.audio/modeling-amps-and-pedals-for-the-aida-x-plugin-best-practices/

 

You can get a version of MOD software that runs on Windows/MacOS/Linux to have a play without spending any pennies.

https://github.com/moddevices/mod-app/releases/tag/0.0.4

 

And there are a number of captures to be found

https://forum.mod.audio/t/list-of-shared-models/9631/8

 

There is also a NAM plugin for the system

https://pedalboards.moddevices.com/plugins/aHR0cDovL2dpdGh1Yi5jb20vbWlrZW9saXBoYW50L25ldXJhbC1hbXAtbW9kZWxlci1sdjI=

tho it is reported to suck more CPU than the Aida-X

 

S'manth x

Edited November 20, 2023 by Smanth

[warwickhunt]

9 hours ago, 3below said:

Have you thought about/tried using impulse responses rather than amp sims?  I sometimes use a Sonicake IR loader pedal (cheap) to help shape my EUB sound, some of the free cab and amp IRs seem really good. I have reached the stage that most of the time playing live I just accept that the room acoustics, amount of audience, pa, volume etc. will eradicate any subtlety and nuance in bass tone so I just work on getting it sounding superb/excellent/good/adequate/less-than-crap/sh*te as best I can.  Recording I just DI and let someone else sprinkle the magic fairy dust for a good bass tone.  I have an admiration for guitarists and bass players who can hack effects pedals, I never cease to be amazed at our keyboard player with innumerable presets and who knows what.  Me, I just plug it in and play,  dinosaur ++.

 

Pretty much my thoughts, views and tribulations right there!  

 

The guitarist in my bands (same one in both) has been an advocate for years and owns most of the big names (Fractal, ToneX, Helix etc etc).  He swears by them and as he owns our PA and does the live sound for us, he has been the driving force for me trying to go silent stage and 'digital'.  I've tried the bass IRs, Cab Sims etc in his pedals and racks + other gear I have begged, borrowed and bought inc me buying a Kemper Profiler (used); this last was the ultimate commitment to getting to terms with getting something which I am happy with. 

 

*Crux* 

 

'I am happy with' - I know many of the combinations of equipment I have tried have supplied a decent enough sound/tone to FOH but I've never been happy with what 'I' am hearing!  Playing live (what I do rather than recording), has to be a pleasurable experience, it's why I do it.  Yes I want the audience to be happy but I am making music for me as well.  I don't want sh*t amps and cabs that give me a woolly mush, I don't like the IEM experience (hasn't worked for me but I will be trying again), IRs never quite feel/sound right and I feel I'm almost dealing with a 2nd rate amp sounds. 

 

We are talking small differences here but if I've got a good sound that I'm happy with why would I accept something not quite as good?  I think sometimes manipulating these digital sounds is so complex that you end chasing your tail and making things worse!  Hence I was hoping if there was a way to capture my amp and settings in an idiot proof way, I could go that route but its not to be.  A few of the analogue preamp pedals I've used have been good but not quite right so maybe I need to persevere and find the right preamp... or take my bass amp along to gigs (sans cabs) and take line-outs to the PA and my monitor.  LOL

[WinterMute]

20 hours ago, warwickhunt said:

 

Appreciate the input but again, way more complex than I'd ever want, need or use.  I actually bought a used Kemper Profiler (Toaster) and the capture process is excellent and 95%+ of the sound of the real thing BUT I've ended up having to go to the far end of a fart to set it up to use live, which has been achievable BUT... as soon as I swapped basses I was needing to access sub menus to alter the input clean sensitivity.  A pedal that can get that 95%+ of the amp it is capturing but in a simple 4 or 5 dial format would be sweet.

 

Agreed, it is, as Owen notes, MASSIVE overkill for what is essentially the modelling of an amp and cab...!

 

I will say the form factor lends itself much more readily to live performance than the Kemper, even with the foot controller, and Neural have put a lot of thought into how the unit would be used live with a range of modes to suit most players, it stores input gains as part of patches for instance, and has a master output volume etc.

 

I move between fretted and fretless basses, with varying outputs, and the QC seems able to deal with it well enough. 

 

Given I'm modelling an SVT + fridge stack with a RB800 and 2x12 for the HF with LA2A limiters and a few overdrives and distortions, I reckon £1500 is a decent price just to save my lower back.

 

YMMV, obvs, it's great that there's so much choice out there now, not just catering for our 6 stringed brethren.

 

Edited November 21, 2023 by WinterMute
typo

[soulstar89]

22 hours ago, warwickhunt said:

I realise you get Helix and NuX pedals that have their own presets, cab SIMs and IRs etc but is there a compact pedal that allows you to profile/capture amps (and cabs) without all of the bells and whistles of a Kemper profiler.  

 

I know you can get a Kemper 'Stage' board but I don't need nor want 9 buttons/switches and all of the 'rig' capabilities of the full blown Kemper.  

 

Is profiling/capturing solely the domain of Kemper or does another manufacturer offer this?  

 

As a gigging bassist I want the ability to profile an amp/cab of mine and store it in a simple pedal format.  

 

have you looked into the bud Melvin Lee Davis preamp and di pedal. It’s very small. The layout is very simple. 
 

you can add cab sims and ir via there software and transfer it to pedal. Also you can edit them via software. 
 

it’s gotten really good reviews. 
 

https://www.gak.co.uk/en/nux-mld-bass-preamp-+-di-pedal/954536?gclsrc=aw.ds&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAx_GqBhBQEiwAlDNAZqiS82VUJeDNEVZmDkF04yMloPfBjIH4IRFNfophV95lT0Elaaks2RoCRpcQAvD_BwE

[warwickhunt]

3 minutes ago, soulstar89 said:

 

have you looked into the bud Melvin Lee Davis preamp and di pedal. It’s very small. The layout is very simple. 
 

you can add cab sims and ir via there software and transfer it to pedal. Also you can edit them via software. 
 

it’s gotten really good reviews. 
 

https://www.gak.co.uk/en/nux-mld-bass-preamp-+-di-pedal/954536?gclsrc=aw.ds&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAx_GqBhBQEiwAlDNAZqiS82VUJeDNEVZmDkF04yMloPfBjIH4IRFNfophV95lT0Elaaks2RoCRpcQAvD_BwE

 

I bought one recently but tbh it didn't suit and I found the cab sims... Meh!  

 

I'm sure it is ideal for some especially if it does the core tone you want but I couldn't get out of it what I wanted.

 

 

[soulstar89]

39 minutes ago, warwickhunt said:

 

I bought one recently but tbh it didn't suit and I found the cab sims... Meh!  

 

I'm sure it is ideal for some especially if it does the core tone you want but I couldn't get out of it what I wanted.

 

 

Oh ok. You returned it?  Did you try adding sims you like?

 

They have around 6 slots. 

 

i bought it up as I’m looking to get this of the laney digbeth db -pre. Doesn’t have cab sim and it option. 
 

the dark glass vintage v2 is another option. 

[warwickhunt]

10 minutes ago, soulstar89 said:

Oh ok. You returned it?  Did you try adding sims you like?

 

They have around 6 slots. 

 

i bought it up as I’m looking to get this of the laney digbeth db -pre. Doesn’t have cab sim and it option. 
 

the dark glass vintage v2 is another option. 

 

I bought it used, it was easy enough to sell for the same price.  I actually disabled the cab sims as I disliked all of them, I felt the pedal sounded better with them disabled.

 

The issue with any of these pedals with in-built captures or files downloaded from sites is that the tone/sound of the amp simulations just isn't a sound I like.   

 

 

[Lfalex v1.1]

No experience of it, so a Wildcard;

 

Two Notes CAB M+

 

Though it can't capture other amps' tones, it might  fit the bill.

[soulstar89]

2 hours ago, warwickhunt said:

 

I bought it used, it was easy enough to sell for the same price.  I actually disabled the cab sims as I disliked all of them, I felt the pedal sounded better with them disabled.

 

The issue with any of these pedals with in-built captures or files downloaded from sites is that the tone/sound of the amp simulations just isn't a sound I like.   

 

 

Oh ok. So you don’t care that much for the simulators of cans and amps. 

[warwickhunt]

2 minutes ago, soulstar89 said:

Oh ok. So you don’t care that much for the simulators of cans and amps. 

 

I spent 4 hrs today with another bassist who has also recently started down the road of Kemper Profiling and between us we profiled, tested and compared a variety of permutations.  I came to the conclusion that yes I probably don't care much for these sims/IRs/profiles et al. and it pretty much renders my original question as pointless!  LOL

[soulstar89]

1 hour ago, warwickhunt said:

 

I spent 4 hrs today with another bassist who has also recently started down the road of Kemper Profiling and between us we profiled, tested and compared a variety of permutations.  I came to the conclusion that yes I probably don't care much for these sims/IRs/profiles et al. and it pretty much renders my original question as pointless!  LOL

lol. At least you have peace of mind right. 
 

 

[warwickhunt]

51 minutes ago, soulstar89 said:

lol. At least you have peace of mind right. 
 

 

 

I've had a year (+) of trying out different combinations but yes, I have peace and tranquillity!  

[Owen]

Peace, tranquillity AND trying out new kit for a year. Lots of good things there.

[warwickhunt]

14 minutes ago, Owen said:

Peace, tranquillity AND trying out new kit for a year. Lots of good things there.

 

[NancyJohnson]

Old Bass POD.