Turning gigs down…

[Geek99]

10 hours ago, SumOne said:

 

Playing in a band to a small/uninterested audience is still the same thing though isn't it? 

And there’s probably more, and more able competition now 

[Jackroadkill]

I'd say do what you all feel is right for your band.  Years ago when I was in an originals band (you know, the one that made me hugely famous, stinking rich and dripping with laydeez) we had a rule that we'd play anywhere, for anyone and for any reason.  We did some fabulous gigs and some real shockers.  I learned a lot, drove a lot, fought a lot and acted like a complete knob a lot.

 

However, as a proper grown-up in a covers band I like to think I'm a bit more discerning.  We've done freebies (for the right reasons, of course) and turned down a couple of gigs which we felt wouldn't do us too many favours.  The one thing I would say is that if you don't stand to gain what you want from a gig, be that payment, fun, exposure or whatever, then don't play it.

[casapete]

The sickening part of turning down gigs is that there’ll be someone else willing to do it for

peanuts even if you don’t. However, turning it down will show the booker that you’re better

than that as well as no punters telling everyone else how few people were at the gig etc.

In my experience once you do cheap gigs people think you’re a cheap band.

 

When I first considered turning pro, a very wise local musician told me to settle on a price

I would want as a minimum for every gig and don’t waiver on that. He said that some nights 

Instead of out working I’d be sitting at home watching telly but it would be worth it in the 

long run. He was right. 

[meterman]

I remember being told about the ‘holy trinity’ or ‘magic triangle’ when I was just starting to do sessions. It’s basically you do the gig or session if:

 

1: the money is right 

2: the band or artist you’re working for are musicians you like or respect 

3: you like the music (even if the artist is a bit of a 🔔🔚)

 

2 out of 3 would mean you’d probably  do the gig / session. But only 1 out of 3 would probably mean you wouldn’t.

 

All 3 together is golden. I’d try to remember to keep that in mind when I was a nipper. 

 

[bassbiscuits]

There’s two issues aren’t there. The fact it’s badly paid / unpaid and the fact the venue isn’t any good anyway.

 

Ive happily done gigs for free / pocket money with original bands to get that practice and get us gigging - but they’ll be worthwhile things like local festivals, support slots etc. 

 

Empty pubs, rubbish venues etc. Barely worth the effort even for paid gigs let alone unpaid ones. 
 

[uk_lefty]

I think the stage your band is at is the key here. If I was still getting a band off the ground and everyone was available without too much inconvenience I'd probably do the gig. Reason being you can iron out a lot of issues, even things like why the PA is making that hissing noise, how to set up quickly or different venues, all the boring stuff, as well as working on your act: song endings, new songs, how to get the four punters tapping their feet, how you respond to requests etc. You say you haven't got a following but if you want to turn down small gigs how will you earn the following to get you in the door for the bigger gigs? I know I'm being very idealistic here but it's hard work building up a band and takes a lot of ups and downs. 

[Greg Edwards69]

18 hours ago, shoulderpet said:

The problem is when you accept gigs for low amounts of money, poor conditions etc not only do you get shafted in terms of pay but because you are undervaluing your services the venues treat you like dirt because they see you as cheap entertainment and nothing more.

The other problem we have is if a number of bands keep doing the same, it doesn't just undervalue their services, it undervalue the pub cover band circuit for everyone. This is one of the reasons pubs are paying bands the same rates they did 30 years ago.

[casapete]

1 minute ago, Greg Edwards69 said:

The other problem we have is if a number of bands keep doing the same, it doesn't just undervalue their services, it undervalue the pub cover band circuit for everyone. This is one of the reasons pubs are paying bands the same rates they did 30 years ago.

That's exactly how it seems in my area. Can't believe people are still only getting £40 each on a gig, was the same over

25 years ago! I know the pub business is not looking great for landlords these days, so you can understand if they can't

(or won't) discern who the better bands are pay them accordingly? A cheap band will always find gigs.

[uk_lefty]

An "expensive" band can justify what they're asking for by having a well stocked social media account that shows what the venue will get: good quality band, crowd interaction, a following, etc. Speaking to a friendly promoter we were asking about how we get a foot in the door a but further afield, he says it's all down to Social Media: short video clips, how many followers, comments from punters... The ones that play for £40 a head probably aren't doing this stuff or are probably doing it very badly.

Edited November 23, 2023 by uk_lefty

[Greg Edwards69]

1 hour ago, uk_lefty said:

An "expensive" band can justify what they're asking for by having a well stocked social media account that shows what the venue will get: good quality band, crowd interaction, a following, etc. Speaking to a friendly promoter we were asking about how we get a foot in the door a but further afield, he says it's all down to Social Media: short video clips, how many followers, comments from punters... The ones that play for £40 a head probably aren't doing this stuff or are probably doing it very badly.

You're on to something there. The couple of bands that are regarded by many as the top cover bands in the county charge more than most others and are very busy - usually 2 or 3 gigs a week, just in pubs/bars.

They are on top of their social media game. One has a website that is barebones - pretty much just a  photo, gig list and merch page selling a single CD, and the other doesn't have a website at all.

 

I know my lot needs to get on top of our SM game to sell ourselves more. We've been trying this last year, but need to get better at it.

 

It's made me think that our band website is less important than I thought. It could be distilled down to a single page with a gig list and links to socials/youtube - more a landing portal to other places than an "end-to-all". I've never been happy with our website TBH but just haven't gotten around to redoing it, or worked out what I need to do with it.

 

I feel a Christmas break project coming on.

[uk_lefty]

Agree with you! Our website gets barely any visitors, Facebook page not a lot, Instagram gets tons. Luckily our guitarist is well on top of it, if it were left to me it would be nowhere near.

[Greg Edwards69]

39 minutes ago, uk_lefty said:

Agree with you! Our website gets barely any visitors, Facebook page not a lot, Instagram gets tons. Luckily our guitarist is well on top of it, if it were left to me it would be nowhere near.

The seemingly daft thing is, I'm a graphic designer by trade. You'd think I'd be on top of all this stuff. But in my defence, I come from a print background. I can make things looks pretty, it's the admin side of it I struggle with.

 

It's often been said in my office, where there are only a couple of us under 50, that we're too old to get on top of social media.

 

EDIT: We've been saying about getting a showreel filmed. But I'm now thinking a photo shoot would be more useful - we haven't done one for well over 10 years, and our line up has changed since then, so I've been cludging together a mixed bad of headshots from various places.  We've got plenty of live footage uploaded over the years, I reckon that's more honest and marketable to venues than a studio-filmed recording. Even if the quality isn't as good as a professional recording, seeing videos of people dancing to our performances must be more engaging to venues.

 

Edited November 23, 2023 by Greg Edwards69

[BillyBass]

This has been an interesting thread.  My covers band has done just ten gigs.  We've had a few good ones but we've had a few paid rehearsals too.  We are new, and don't have a following.  Unfortunately, after our last gig, which had just 5 people in the audience, our drummer left.  There were a few other reasons why he left, but this was the straw that broke the camel's back.  We got paid, but we won't go back.

 

I'm hopeful the drummer auditioning for us next week will fit, I've played with him before so I know he is good.  If it works out and we are a band again, we will still gig new venues but will probably avoid places that are likely to be paid rehearsals.

 

 

[Jackroadkill]

48 minutes ago, BillyBass said:

This has been an interesting thread.  My covers band has done just ten gigs.  We've had a few good ones but we've had a few paid rehearsals too.  We are new, and don't have a following.  Unfortunately, after our last gig, which had just 5 people in the audience, our drummer left.  There were a few other reasons why he left, but this was the straw that broke the camel's back.  We got paid, but we won't go back.

 

I'm hopeful the drummer auditioning for us next week will fit, I've played with him before so I know he is good.  If it works out and we are a band again, we will still gig new venues but will probably avoid places that are likely to be paid rehearsals.

 

 

 

We're in a similar situation.  Five gigs in and no drummer, but auditioning a few over the next couple of weeks.

[markbunney]

We today got asked to play at our singer/guitarists work Xmas party.

 

They asked us to play for free, as there was no budget left!

 

this was for 200/300 people, and a big corporate in central london. We said no thanks, as a) it was taking the gypsy's kiss and b) would have involved us hiring a van and all travelling into central london together from various parts of Kent.

 

this contradicts my earlier reply in this thread, and it would have been by far our biggest ever gig,  but in this case the company was having a laugh 

[Dad3353]

18 minutes ago, markbunney said:

... They asked us to play for free, as there was no budget left! ...

 

At least expenses such as travel should be offered for such an event. Poor show.  What animation will they get instead (or none at all..?) 

Edited November 24, 2023 by Dad3353

[BillyBass]

7 hours ago, Jackroadkill said:

 

We're in a similar situation.  Five gigs in and no drummer, but auditioning a few over the next couple of weeks.

Good luck.  They are almost an endangered species.

[BillyBass]

5 hours ago, markbunney said:

We today got asked to play at our singer/guitarists work Xmas party.

 

They asked us to play for free, as there was no budget left!

 

this was for 200/300 people, and a big corporate in central london. We said no thanks, as a) it was taking the gypsy's kiss and b) would have involved us hiring a van and all travelling into central london together from various parts of Kent.

 

this contradicts my earlier reply in this thread, and it would have been by far our biggest ever gig,  but in this case the company was having a laugh 

That really is taking the Mick.  If there was a tip jar for the band it could have been ok but your singer might have felt like he was begging from his workmates.  would have been a good video opportunity for Social Media though.

[TimR]

On 22/11/2023 at 08:50, EssexBuccaneer said:

Are we really in a position to be turning gigs away, even if they’re a guaranteed waste of a night? 
 

At what point did your bands start saying ‘sorry, we’re better than that venue’?

 

When the venue isn't respecting your service.

 

It's not your job to 'bring' a crowd, it's the venue's job to advertise and build a reputation for good bands that people want to see. You're likely to bring a few friends but it's not your job to fill the venue. Otherwise you'd be hiring your own venue and taking all the profits. 

 

If they're not paying the money, they won't get good bands, and they won't build a reputation.

 

Sounds to me like as a band you're all very new to this and not confident your band is good.

 

[EssexBuccaneer]

22 hours ago, uk_lefty said:

I think the stage your band is at is the key here. If I was still getting a band off the ground and everyone was available without too much inconvenience I'd probably do the gig. Reason being you can iron out a lot of issues, even things like why the PA is making that hissing noise, how to set up quickly or different venues, all the boring stuff, as well as working on your act: song endings, new songs, how to get the four punters tapping their feet, how you respond to requests etc. You say you haven't got a following but if you want to turn down small gigs how will you earn the following to get you in the door for the bigger gigs? I know I'm being very idealistic here but it's hard work building up a band and takes a lot of ups and downs. 

Yeah that’s why I’m in a quandary, we’ve had great feedback from the gigs we’ve played, and had no trouble keeping the crowd happy. It feels like we’ve made huge strides given the newness of the band (as individuals we have plenty of experience, but as a foursome we’re brand new). 
 

As others have said, I think if we were an originals band trying to make a go of things, we’d have played it. As a covers band who are pretty comfortable who we are, and the value of performance we bring - I’m wary of underpricing ourselves and other bands in the area. 

[EssexBuccaneer]

On 22/11/2023 at 21:14, Mudpup said:

Is it a bar in/near Brentwood, Essex by any chance?

 

It’s in Basildon, in the town square. Obvs I won’t name the venue, but its reputation for live music is less than stellar.

[markbunney]

8 hours ago, Dad3353 said:

 

At least expenses such as travel should be offered for such an event. Poor show.  What animation will they get instead (or none at all..?) 

 

2 hours ago, BillyBass said:

That really is taking the Mick.  If there was a tip jar for the band it could have been ok but your singer might have felt like he was begging from his workmates.  would have been a good video opportunity for Social Media though.

We had offered to do it for the cost of the van hire plus the £300 we would normally charge for a pub, as the opportunity for pictures and videos would have been good.

 

We thought this was a good deal bearing in mind how far, and how long we would have to travel, but they didn't want to know. I think they might be having karaoke instead 🤣

[BigRedX]

On 22/11/2023 at 08:50, EssexBuccaneer said:

At what point did your bands start saying ‘sorry, we’re better than that venue’?

 

A band is never "better than that venue" and even if you think you are don't say it out loud. If you don't want to do the gig politely turn down it down, saying the band are not available that night. You never know some point in the future this might become a gig worth playing and you don't want to ruin your chances now by something you'll regret later.

[MacDaddy]

 

This.

 

Absolutely this!

 

2 hours ago, TimR said:

it's not your job to fill the venue. Otherwise you'd be hiring your own venue and taking all the profits. 

 

[casapete]

2 hours ago, markbunney said:

We thought this was a good deal bearing in mind how far, and how long we would have to travel, but they didn't want to know. I think they might be having karaoke instead 🤣

And probably end up paying the karaoke DJ more than £300 too......🤬