Daddario Prosteels Yeowch

[markdavid]

Having grown a bit tired of the lack of brightness from the Power slinkies on my bass I decided to get a pack of heavy gauge Daddario Prosteels (I tune 1 step down) , after about an hour of playing these strings I gotta say "my fingers are killing me" , the tension on these strings is brutal , ive taken them off and put my power slinkies back on. I love the tone but the tension is way too high so I think next time I change strings ill get Prosteels but in the next gauge down. Anyhow rant over now

[paul h]

I was the same, couldn't get on with the Prosteels at all. I now use cheapo Roberts Growlers off ebay for my stainless steel needs!

P.

[Marcus]

Try DR Hi Beams, all the brightness of the pro-steels with more mid range and a bigger fundamental

Nice under your fingers too as they are medium tension even with 45-105's

When I used to tune down I used Ernie Balls, felt the same as DR's in standard tuning

[Delberthot]

I bought prosteels for a Rickenbacker once. I got my usual 45 gauge but they were mental high tension. amazingly I didn't have to adjust the neck.

I'm actually enjoying my Hartke strings just now - about £15 delivered for 3 sets.

Makes a change from £35 for a set of my gold Optimas.

[stingrayfan]

[quote name='paul h' post='484157' date='May 10 2009, 08:05 AM']I was the same, couldn't get on with the Prosteels at all. I now use cheapo Roberts Growlers off ebay for my stainless steel needs!

P.[/quote]
+1. I found them both rough to play and dirty looking. Switched to Hartke strings.

Edited May 11, 2009 by stingrayfan

[mcgraham]

I absolutely love Prosteels. I practice a LOT, and these strings are the only ones that sound great, even, crisp and full, even for months of intense playing.

I've tried Rotosound and found them to be too abrasive and shortlived. I've tried Warwick Black Label, thin and weedy sounding, also very very abrasive. Fender are alright, nothing remarkable. Elixirs feel like dead strings, and sound half-dead. I've not played a better string than D'addario yet, but I'm open to change.

Mark

[King Tut]

[quote name='mcgraham' post='485107' date='May 11 2009, 02:52 PM']I absolutely love Prosteels. I practice a LOT, and these strings are the only ones that sound great, even, crisp and full, even for months of intense playing.

I've tried Rotosound and found them to be too abrasive and shortlived. I've tried Warwick Black Label, thin and weedy sounding, also very very abrasive. Fender are alright, nothing remarkable. Elixirs feel like dead strings, and sound half-dead. I've not played a better string than D'addario yet, but I'm open to change.

Mark[/quote]

+1 for prosteels!

[markdavid]

[quote name='Delberthot' post='484960' date='May 11 2009, 12:06 PM']I bought prosteels for a Rickenbacker once. I got my usual 45 gauge but they were mental high tension.[/quote]
Glad its not just me who's noticed it. I never struggled with the tension of a set of roundwounds until I tried Prosteels, they lasted all of 2 hours before I took them off my bass and put the power slinkies back on

[BottomEndian]

This all sounds a bit odd to me. ProSteels are listed as having a [i]lower[/i] tension than D'Addario XL nickels at the same gauge -- and only slightly, to the extent that you might well not notice, and you might not have to adjust your neck relief or action. Behold (for example) the [url="http://store.daddario.com/category/145919/EXL165_Long_Scale_45-105"]45-105 long scale XLs[/url] compared to the [url="http://store.daddario.com/category/145893/EPS165_Long_Scale_45-105"]45-105 long scale ProSteels[/url].

I don't know how Ernie Ball's tensions compare to XLs, but I wouldn't have thought they would be [i]so[/i] different that switching to ProSteels would mean a huge jump up in tension.

Might it be the case that people are actually finding the ProSteels [b]stiffer[/b] (i.e. less flexible, so more difficult to pluck laterally) than nickel rounds? That seems more feasible, and it explains Delberthot's statement that he didn't have to adjust the neck. Two strings at exactly the same tension (tension being measured along the length of the string) could feel completely different to pluck, depending on the construction of the string -- they'll move differently.

This is all just falling out of the top of my head, so it's not very well put, but it's something I've been wondering about for a while.

[Mr Fudge]

Ive just pushed the boat out and bought some of them Elixr last 5 times longer. Three sweaty gigs in so far so good. there will always be a place in my heart for slinkies though and depending on the durability of the elixr I might be back sooner rather than later.

[Count Bassy]

[quote name='BottomEndian' post='485731' date='May 12 2009, 10:52 AM']This all sounds a bit odd to me. ProSteels are listed as having a [i]lower[/i] tension than D'Addario XL nickels at the same gauge -- and only slightly, to the extent that you might well not notice, and you might not have to adjust your neck relief or action. Behold (for example) the [url="http://store.daddario.com/category/145919/EXL165_Long_Scale_45-105"]45-105 long scale XLs[/url] compared to the [url="http://store.daddario.com/category/145893/EPS165_Long_Scale_45-105"]45-105 long scale ProSteels[/url].

I don't know how Ernie Ball's tensions compare to XLs, but I wouldn't have thought they would be [i]so[/i] different that switching to ProSteels would mean a huge jump up in tension.

Might it be the case that people are actually finding the ProSteels [b]stiffer[/b] (i.e. less flexible, so more difficult to pluck laterally) than nickel rounds? That seems more feasible, and it explains Delberthot's statement that he didn't have to adjust the neck. Two strings at exactly the same tension (tension being measured along the length of the string) could feel completely different to pluck, depending on the construction of the string -- they'll move differently.

This is all just falling out of the top of my head, so it's not very well put, but it's something I've been wondering about for a while. [/quote]


I am not familiar with these particular strings, but +1 on the general sentiment and distinguishing between tension and stiffness. 'Tension' seems to be one of the most mis-used terms on these pages! after all you could have a 105 thou solid stainless rod, with zero tension, but you'd find it very stiff and difficult to pluck!

[BottomEndian]

[quote name='Clive Thorne' post='485836' date='May 12 2009, 12:45 PM']...you could have a 105 thou solid stainless rod, with zero tension, but you'd find it very stiff and difficult to pluck![/quote]
Someone on BC is sure to take that as a challenge!

[alexclaber]

The posts about stiffness are spot on. I tried Prosteels years ago on my '87 Warwick Streamer because they'd been recommended as being higher tension than most but they're not, they're just stiffer. Extremely bright and extremely rough on your hands - possibly the worst match of strings and bass ever heard, so trebly even Mark King would have run a mile. I bet they'd be great on a Thunderbird for someone wanting an Entwistle sound though.

Nickel strings often feel a little softer than s/s ones of the same gauge because they're smoother and less stiff but the density is a bit higher and thus so is the actual tension.

I've yet to play a bass where the strings feel too tight - but then I rather like how uprights feel and think guitars seem like toy instruments!

Alex

[markdavid]

[quote name='BottomEndian' post='485731' date='May 12 2009, 10:52 AM']This all sounds a bit odd to me. ProSteels are listed as having a [i]lower[/i] tension than D'Addario XL nickels at the same gauge -- and only slightly, to the extent that you might well not notice, and you might not have to adjust your neck relief or action. Behold (for example) the [url="http://store.daddario.com/category/145919/EXL165_Long_Scale_45-105"]45-105 long scale XLs[/url] compared to the [url="http://store.daddario.com/category/145893/EPS165_Long_Scale_45-105"]45-105 long scale ProSteels[/url].

I don't know how Ernie Ball's tensions compare to XLs, but I wouldn't have thought they would be [i]so[/i] different that switching to ProSteels would mean a huge jump up in tension.

Might it be the case that people are actually finding the ProSteels [b]stiffer[/b] (i.e. less flexible, so more difficult to pluck laterally) than nickel rounds? That seems more feasible, and it explains Delberthot's statement that he didn't have to adjust the neck. Two strings at exactly the same tension (tension being measured along the length of the string) could feel completely different to pluck, depending on the construction of the string -- they'll move differently.

This is all just falling out of the top of my head, so it's not very well put, but it's something I've been wondering about for a while. [/quote]

You may well be right there, that would make sense to me as I did not initially notice the tension when I first strung the bass with these strings , it was only after I had played the bass for a while that I noticed that my fingers felt like they were going to fall off

[BottomEndian]

[quote name='markdavid' post='485949' date='May 12 2009, 02:16 PM']You may well be right there, that would make sense to me as I did not initially notice the tension when I first strung the bass with these strings , it was only after I had played the bass for a while that I noticed that my fingers felt like they were going to fall off[/quote]
I got that when I changed from XL rounds to Chromes (flats). There's a tiny increase in tension between the string types, but the difference in stiffness is very noticeable. It was also the change in string surface that made my plucking fingers suffer. The increased contact surface area on the flats meant some very sore fingertips for the first few times I played them. Is there a noticeable difference in surface feel between Slinkies and ProSteels? (I've never used either type!)

Also, we shouldn't forget that there are factors of instrument build which affect the [b]perceived[/b] tension or softness of strings, like break angles over nut and bridge, and length from nut to tuning post. That means that the same strings on different basses might feel very different, even though the strings are at exactly the same tension (assuming identical tuning on identical scale lengths). This article has an interesting little section about two-thirds of the way down about exactly those factors:
[url="http://www.noyceguitars.com/Technotes/Articles/T3.html"]http://www.noyceguitars.com/Technotes/Articles/T3.html[/url]

[Count Bassy]

[quote name='BottomEndian' post='485971' date='May 12 2009, 02:35 PM']I got that when I changed from XL rounds to Chromes (flats). There's a tiny increase in tension between the string types, but the difference in stiffness is very noticeable. It was also the change in string surface that made my plucking fingers suffer. The increased contact surface area on the flats meant some very sore fingertips for the first few times I played them. Is there a noticeable difference in surface feel between Slinkies and ProSteels? (I've never used either type!)

Also, we shouldn't forget that there are factors of instrument build which affect the [b]perceived[/b] tension or softness of strings, like break angles over nut and bridge, and length from nut to tuning post. That means that the same strings on different basses might feel very different, even though the strings are at exactly the same tension (assuming identical tuning on identical scale lengths). This article has an interesting little section about two-thirds of the way down about exactly those factors:
[url="http://www.noyceguitars.com/Technotes/Articles/T3.html"]http://www.noyceguitars.com/Technotes/Articles/T3.html[/url][/quote]

From that article:

"This formula may look pretty formidable: just take it for granted (it's actually derived from the fact that the note produced by a string is proportional to the speed that sound travels in the string, and that speed in turn depends on how tense and how heavy the string is."

I dispute that. It's nothing to do with the speed of sound in the string. If I remember correctly it's to do with the mass of the string/unit length and the force produced by the displacement of the string by plucking, i.e good old Newton's laws of force, mass, and acceleration.

Please correct me if I'm wrong (it's been 30 years since my Physics degree).

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='Clive Thorne' post='486543' date='May 13 2009, 12:58 AM']I dispute that. It's nothing to do with the speed of sound in the string. If I remember correctly it's to do with the mass of the string/unit length and the force produced by the displacement of the string by plucking, i.e good old Newton's laws of force, mass, and acceleration.

Please correct me if I'm wrong (it's been 30 years since my Physics degree).[/quote]

It's 30 years since my [i]drama [/i]degree, but I'm inclined to agree with you. I wasn't aware that sound travelled [i]within [/i]the string But clearly tension and mass have a bit to do with how a string sounds and plays.

Edited May 13, 2009 by skankdelvar

[BottomEndian]

[quote name='Clive Thorne' post='486543' date='May 13 2009, 12:58 AM']From that article:

"This formula may look pretty formidable: just take it for granted (it's actually derived from the fact that the note produced by a string is proportional to the speed that sound travels in the string, and that speed in turn depends on how tense and how heavy the string is."

I dispute that. It's nothing to do with the speed of sound in the string. If I remember correctly it's to do with the mass of the string/unit length and the force produced by the displacement of the string by plucking, i.e good old Newton's laws of force, mass, and acceleration.

Please correct me if I'm wrong (it's been 30 years since my Physics degree).[/quote]
It's been 7 years since mine, but I'm not really much wiser when it comes to physics. I think it's just badly worded. It's not to do with the speed of sound in the string (although as a rough guide, the higher the mass per unit length, the more dense the string will be and the higher the speed of sound!); it's to do with the [i]wave speed[/i] along the string.

There's not really any involvement of force (apart from the tension) in the calculations. It doesn't matter how hard you pluck the string (within reason) -- the frequency should stay the same.

Quick derivation:
For a fixed string of length L, the wavelength of the fundamental mode of vibration (the basic note you hear when you pluck the open string) is 2L. Because f = (v / lambda), where f is frequency, v is wave speed of the oscillation along the string and lambda is wavelength, we can then see that our fundamental frequency is f = v / 2L.

When the amplitude of oscillations is small (i.e. you're not digging in like a terrier), the wave speed is v = sqrt(T / rho), where T is tension and rho is mass per unit length of the string. (Trust me, the derivation for that bit isn't for the faint-hearted.) So, by simple substitution into what we had before:

f = (1 / 2L) sqrt(T / rho)

For anyone who's interested, the derivation of wave speed as v = sqrt(T / rho) involves the "small angle approximation" that A is roughly equal to (sin A), where A is the angle between the string's resting position and the string's position at maximum excursion. So if you pluck too hard, the formula breaks down and your note will go out of tune. There's your lesson, people: don't mess with physics -- you'll go out of tune!

This was never my area of expertise, though. More of a quantum mechanics and relativity kinda guy.

[markdavid]

[quote name='BottomEndian' post='485731' date='May 12 2009, 10:52 AM']This all sounds a bit odd to me. ProSteels are listed as having a [i]lower[/i] tension than D'Addario XL nickels at the same gauge -- and only slightly, to the extent that you might well not notice, and you might not have to adjust your neck relief or action. Behold (for example) the [url="http://store.daddario.com/category/145919/EXL165_Long_Scale_45-105"]45-105 long scale XLs[/url] compared to the [url="http://store.daddario.com/category/145893/EPS165_Long_Scale_45-105"]45-105 long scale ProSteels[/url].

I don't know how Ernie Ball's tensions compare to XLs, but I wouldn't have thought they would be [i]so[/i] different that switching to ProSteels would mean a huge jump up in tension.

Might it be the case that people are actually finding the ProSteels [b]stiffer[/b] (i.e. less flexible, so more difficult to pluck laterally) than nickel rounds? That seems more feasible, and it explains Delberthot's statement that he didn't have to adjust the neck. Two strings at exactly the same tension (tension being measured along the length of the string) could feel completely different to pluck, depending on the construction of the string -- they'll move differently.

This is all just falling out of the top of my head, so it's not very well put, but it's something I've been wondering about for a while. [/quote]

Ive just looked at the D'addario tension chart today and it would appear to confirm what BottomEndian suspected about the Prosteels being stiff rather than high tension , the heavy gauge set tuned DGCF has the following tension

D - 35.2
G - 43.5
C - 49.1
F - 53.2

which does not seem to be particularly high tension
The next set down (105-50) when tuned DGCF would have a D string tension of 29.6 which would probably feel like playing a wet noodle , so it would seem that the strings are stiff rather than high tension

[Kongo]

I love D'addario for the tention, life and tonal consistancy.
I play Pro Steels and Nickel Plated and have a .55 G.
The trick is to getting your fingers stronger. You can bend a full tone easily after a while, just let your other fingers help...these ain;t no gauge .9's y'know.

Edited May 21, 2009 by Kongo

[fekalizatorius]

I love D'addario's. Have nickel roundwounds atm. I want to change to ProSteels somewhere around christmas (Usually a set lasts me 9 months). I usually go with 50-135. No finger torture what so ever. Maybe you're just not ajusted to the high tension of the strings.