3 pole, 4 way rotary switch wiring for MM pickup

[Bass Wielder]

Hi,

maybe this has been covered but I could not find so thus my new post.

I had a couple go bad on me so I wanted to replace.

They looked different physically so I guess it’s a new wiring process.

I’m trying to achieve 4 positions from a Music Man style pickup (in whatever order is best): single/single/series/parallel.

The switch to be used is in the photo.

Anyone with success on this?

[Baloney Balderdash]

I'm sorry, can't help you, just wanted to make you aware that there is most likely not going to be any notable difference between the two single coil positions, but of course entirely up to you whether it is worth it to you, personally I wouldn't bother.

 

And the only really worthwhile options as far as I am concerned would just be being able to switch between having the two coils in respectively either in series or parallel connection.

 

Though I am certain someone who knows how to is going to chime in with how to wire up what you have in mind properly, if you still want to go through with it.

 

Edited November 25, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[itu]

@Baloney Balderdash already said it, but it's true: you will use one or two options only. Therefore I suggest you do trials with the options before closing the bonnet. Sounds you get are probably something like:

- series is THE sound

- parallel gives a bit different sound

- single is lower in level and a tad brighter

 

If you do soloing, the level and sound difference of series/single may be usable, otherwise your choice is series/parallel.

 

Edited November 25, 2023 by itu
learning to wrte

[sandy_r]

LOL ...i knew i shouldn't have taken this on to exercise the (2) 'little grey cells'!

 

Anyway - for reference only, it seems, this is what you were requesting:

(i've sequenced it 1) Parallel(Std); 2) Serial; 3) Neck side; 4 Bridge side)

 

If you haven't bought the rotary switch yet, you could get a 3 pole 3 way and have Par/Ser/Single

(On some rotary switches you could adjust the stop position, so you could convert a 4 way to 3 way - seem to remember it involved some dis-assembling and was very fiddly!)

 

[Bass Wielder]

1 hour ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

I'm sorry, can't help you, just wanted to make you aware that there is most likely not going to be any notable difference between the two single coil positions, but of course entirely up to you whether it is worth it to you, personally I wouldn't bother.

 

And the only really worthwhile options as far as I am concerned would just be being able to switch between having the two coils in respectively either in series or parallel connection.

 

Though I am certain someone who knows how to is going to chime in with how to wire up what you have in mind properly, if you still want to go through with it.

 

Yep. I hear you. On close monitoring I can hear the difference between the single options …not sure an audience would/could appreciate…

I must say though that it’s very useful when using two dual coils. The single/single  combinations (neck vs bridge singles) have different timbres especially for slap bass! Then in combination with series/parallel…..kid in a candy shop!!!!!

[Bass Wielder]

1 hour ago, itu said:

@Baloney Balderdash already said it, but it's true: you will use one or two options only. Therefore I suggest you do trials with the options before closing the bonnet. Sounds you get are probably something like:

- series is THE sound

- parallel gives a bit different sound

- single is lower in level and a tad brighter

 

If you do soloing, the level and sound difference of series/single may be usable, otherwise your choice is series/parallel.

 

Gotcha!

For me, series for finger style and parallel for slap (of course adjusting between the volume levels).

Singles: front for slap/fingerstyle and rear for Jaco type (perhaps fretless l) sound.

[Bass Wielder]

55 minutes ago, sandy_r said:

LOL ...i knew i shouldn't have taken this on to exercise the (2) 'little grey cells'!

 

Anyway - for reference only, it seems, this is what you were requesting:

(i've sequenced it 1) Parallel(Std); 2) Serial; 3) Neck side; 4 Bridge side)

 

If you haven't bought the rotary switch yet, you could get a 3 pole 3 way and have Par/Ser/Single

(On some rotary switches you could adjust the stop position, so you could convert a 4 way to 3 way - seem to remember it involved some dis-assembling and was very fiddly!)

 

That looks like it!! Much thanks.

I’ll go for all four positions (greedy) and update.

[sandy_r]

13 minutes ago, Bass Wielder said:

That looks like it!! Much thanks.

I’ll go for all four positions (greedy) and update.

 

 welcome!  sounds like you have a clear idea of what you're aiming for

 

BTW - i notice that the switch in its original photo, which i cut&pasted, has been numbered clockwise on the rear, so my sequence (clockwise from the front) will be as per your OP: Single/Single/Ser/Par

 

Edited November 25, 2023 by sandy_r

[itu]

2 hours ago, Bass Wielder said:

...On close monitoring I can hear the difference...

Exactly. Though you may be a studio star, me just a gigging bassist.

[Bass Wielder]

Right! Hope I’m not being thick!!!

Wired it as suggested but only getting two positions (that is: sound)??

Clockwise rotation: Positions 2 and 3. (1&4 silent). 

Me “Duh?? 😵‍💫”

edit: sounds like parallel to series.

Edited November 25, 2023 by Bass Wielder

[Bass Wielder]

So from left to right:

Vol, tone, switch, Jack.

That is in playing position (so rotary clockwise from on top (anti viewed from below)1-4)

Edited November 25, 2023 by Bass Wielder

[sandy_r]

56 minutes ago, Bass Wielder said:

So from left to right: Vol, tone, switch, Jack.

That is in playing position (so rotary clockwise from on top (anti viewed from below)1-4)

 

Thanks - could you post another photo looking at the controls from the Mug side of the table, please?  Try to get the camera to focus on the rotary switch (to try and distinguish the wiring from an additional angle)

 

Also, can you confirm the wire colours coming from your pickup, please - the photo appears to show (R to L) Red, Black, Blue ...and... Red?/Orange?  Which wire is which on the 2 windings of the humbucker (ie +/-, or Start/End)

 

Cheers

 

Edited November 25, 2023 by sandy_r

[Bass Wielder]

Thanks for the response👍🏾🤞🏾

So to explain (better) I hope:

Volume is to the left (neckward), jack socket is to the right.

pick-up front/neckward coil (pos/neg): red/blue

pickup rear/bridgeward coil: (pos/neg): red/black

Out to vol: orange

Switch connectors: black

Ground: green

[sandy_r]

32 minutes ago, Bass Wielder said:

Thanks for the response👍🏾🤞🏾

So to explain (better) I hope:

Volume is to the left (neckward), jack socket is to the right.

pick-up front/neckward coil (pos/neg): red/blue

pickup rear/bridgeward coil: (pos/neg): red/black

Out to vol: orange

Switch connectors: black

Ground: green

 

Thanks, that's helpful -  i'll look at these close ups now...

[sandy_r]

OK - difficult to see exactly every connection, but mostly looks good ...just 1 issue: your Green (Ground)/ Black p/u connection is on the wrong lug (and it  should also have a connection to the next-but-one lug along).  Have a look at the diagram - your Gnd should be at, say, 10 o'clock, not 11 - and it should also be connected to, say, 8 o'clock

 

Nearly there!

 

 

Edited November 25, 2023 by sandy_r

[Bass Wielder]

Ah….about to run off to a gig.

I’ll dive back in and update asap

much thanks 

30 minutes ago, sandy_r said:

OK - difficult to see exactly every connection, but mostly looks good ...just 1 issue: your Green (Ground)/ Black p/u connection is on the wrong lug (and it  should also have a connection to the next-but-one lug along).  Have a look at the diagram - your Gnd should be at, say, 10 o'clock, not 11 - and it should also be connected to, say, 8 o'clock

 

Nearly there!

 

 

 

[Bass Wielder]

On 25/11/2023 at 16:27, sandy_r said:

OK - difficult to see exactly every connection, but mostly looks good ...just 1 issue: your Green (Ground)/ Black p/u connection is on the wrong lug (and it  should also have a connection to the next-but-one lug along).  Have a look at the diagram - your Gnd should be at, say, 10 o'clock, not 11 - and it should also be connected to, say, 8 o'clock

 

Nearly there!

 

 

So….did as you said but now only getting three positions. Not getting furthest clockwise….arrrgggggggg🤯

Seems like I’m getting neck and two dual….

NC = neck coil 

BC = bridge coil

Edited November 28, 2023 by Bass Wielder

[sandy_r]

1 hour ago, Bass Wielder said:

So….did as you said but now only getting three positions. Not getting furthest clockwise….arrrgggggggg🤯

Seems like I’m getting neck and two dual….

 

 

Yes, it looks like you've moved the ground wire (and added its link) to the correct lug now, as per the diagram

 

It's difficult to be absolutely sure about every connection from your photos, given that the wires are obscuring connections from certain angles

 

When you say 'not getting furthest clockwise', do you mean clockwise when looking at the wiring side of the switch, or when looking from outside at the  panel, from the control knob side?

 

EDIT:   You appear to have added an extra connection to Ground, from the switch - you have a black to the Jack Ground lug, which is good - but you've also connected the Switch Ground back to the Tone control, so your ground wiring has a loop , instead of separate ground wires to switch and V/T (or 1 single Ground wire, Sw-> T -> V -> Jack)

 

Also, the Orange and Green wires carrying the signal from Vol to Jack are taken off to something else as well - do you have a 2nd jack socket, or something?

 

Edited November 28, 2023 by sandy_r

[Bass Wielder]

Ok great!
Clockwise in playing position (looking from outside). Furthest anti-clockwise is loudest (but seems to be BC)?), then next two seem to be both coils). Confused.com😵‍💫

Ground: Ok I’ll check that…(could that stop extra position?)

Jack: yes there is an extra Jack socket (one on plate and one on side)

Edited November 28, 2023 by Bass Wielder

[sandy_r]

30 minutes ago, Bass Wielder said:

...
Clockwise in playing position (looking from outside).

Ground: Ok I’ll check that…(could that stop extra position?)

Jack: yes there is an extra Jack socket (one on plate and one on side)

 

Thanks, yep, ok with a 2nd jack, as long as it is completely and only in parallel with the panel one

 

Extra Ground wire shouldn't affect switch, could just cause hum/noise issues

(Ground wiring should preferably be a 'star' connection from 1 point, usually the jack shield lug, out to the different parts, eg, pickup/switch, VT, bridge, etc - but 1 single ground wire from pickup to Sw to V to T to jack is ok too)

 

No sound from fully-clockwise playing position would be the Parallel connection, yet you're getting signal on all other 3 positions (Both coils in Series, Neck coil only, Bridge coil only) - so signal must be reaching the switch from both coils...  

 

The problem relates to the No. 1 positions (as per the numbering shown in the diagram) - so check all No. 1 lugs for dry joints (especially any multiple wires on same lug) and also for possible slivers of solder shorting between lugs

 

Edited November 28, 2023 by sandy_r

[Bass Wielder]

Wow! 😵‍💫

Jack sockets are in parallel. Fine!

I triple checked all joints. Fine!

Removed ground loop. Fine!

Checked that the pickup coils work. Fine!

Still three positions: but they are (from furthest anti-clockwise):  

NC(single)/dual/dual.

 

* Could it be that I need to shift the wiring around? ie: Start pin 1 at a different point.

 On looking internally at the switch, the wipers combine pins correct? So maybe it stars at a different point?? 🤯🤯

 

[sandy_r]

1 hour ago, Bass Wielder said:

...

Still three positions: but they are (from furthest anti-clockwise):  

NC(single)/dual/dual.

 

* Could it be that I need to shift the wiring around? ie: Start pin 1 at a different point.

 On looking internally at the switch, the wipers combine pins correct? So maybe it stars at a different point?? 🤯🤯

 

 

How are you confirming that you have no dry joints or a hidden short between lugs?  Are you using an ohm-meter/DVM/Continuity tester?

 

If so, you can confirm a switch start lug either with that tester, checking for continuity from its central lug (one of the three), or visually by looking into the switch wafer mechanism to see which lug gets the switch 'wiper' when fully clockwise/anti-cw

 

 

BTW  As an aside, it looks like your Tone control isn't wired as standard - you have all 3 lugs connected, if you want the regular tone operation then the green ground wire (with its cap wire left connected to it) should be removed from that 3rd (Right-hand) tone lug.   Maybe you want it that way? (The diagram below has pots with enclosing cases, which are grounded, but your bass uses different style, so ground just uses the wire)

 

 

 

Edited November 28, 2023 by sandy_r

[sandy_r]

Here's the same info from my earlier diagram (3-Pole 4-Way Switch diagram for a MM type pickup), in schematic form

 

The Switch has 3 sections, A, B & C, each with 4 connecting lugs A1, A2, A3, A4;  B1, B2, B3... etc

 

Neck Coil + connects to A (and also to V&T),  Neck Coil - to B,  Bridge Coil + to C,  Bridge Coil - to Ground (also to B1&B3)

 

The connection info for which you asked is shown above/earlier (same info, 2 formats)

 

It's over to you now, to get the right wires in the right positions, as per the info given, and ensure good soldered connections 👍

 

All the best

 

[Bass Wielder]

1 hour ago, sandy_r said:

Here's the same info from my earlier diagram (3-Pole 4-Way Switch diagram for a MM type pickup), in schematic form

 

The Switch has 3 sections, A, B & C, each with 4 connecting lugs A1, A2, A3, A4;  B1, B2, B3... etc

 

Neck Coil + connects to A (and also to V&T),  Neck Coil - to B,  Bridge Coil + to C,  Bridge Coil - to Ground (also to B1&B3)

 

The connection info for which you asked is shown above/earlier (same info, 2 formats)

 

It's over to you now, to get the right wires in the right positions, as per the info given, and ensure good soldered connections 👍

 

All the best

 

Gotcha with thanks!

I’ll attack again tomorrow 🤞🏾

[Bass Wielder]

Much thanks for all your help so far guys.