"that P-bass sound"

[max_overdrive]

Players refer to that P-bass sound, and how sound engineers in a studio will often try to bring a tone from a different guitar closer to that P-bass sound because supposedly that's what listeners are used to listening to on records. Which isn't hard to believe since they were the first electric basses and to this day (I was told) over half the bass guitars produced/sold worldwide are P-basses.

 

But what people really mean is the sound from a Fender split pickup, right? There's a thousand different types of P-basses, and the only common denominator is a P pickup. Couldn't you simply put a P pickup on any guitar to achieve that P bass sound?

Edited November 25, 2023 by max_overdrive

[BabyBlueSound]

I grew up listening to my bud playing on his oldskool P. All I can tell you is, my P/J Ibanez sounds pretty Prec-y in the P setting, before and after a pickup change. I guess for the audiophiles, it's not the Fender sounds exactly, but it's as P as it gets. Very, very different when I use the P/J setting.

 

I also think you can find all sorts of basses in modern music, there is a lot larger selection and most of them are more affordable.

[Maude]

Yes, is the short answer. All the other nonsense about wood and fairies will follow. 😉

[PaulWarning]

8 minutes ago, max_overdrive said:

 

 

But what people really mean is the sound from a Fender split pickup, right? There's a thousand different types of P-basses, and the only common denominator is a P pickup. Couldn't you simply put a P pickup on any guitar to achieve that P bass sound?

provided the pick up is in the same position as regards distance between the bridge and the neck, yes in theory, having said that there are a lot of different sounding Fender P's out there, just ask J J Burnell

[BabyBlueSound]

9 minutes ago, Maude said:

Yes, is the short answer. All the other nonsense about wood and fairies will follow. 😉

 

...but but but if you can't hear the difference immediately between normal and stainless steel frets behind that P, you might as well put the instrument down  

[la bam]

Imo the p bass sound when people refer to it is a really really raw sound slightly rough and distorted too, but sits lovely and warm in the mix. It's not necessarily the standard sound you'd get just from plugging any p bass in. 

[Baloney Balderdash]

Some of the sound comes from the specific design of the pickup sure, but by far predominantly the specific sound comes from the specific position of the pickup.

 

So a bass with any random type of pickup placed in the traditional P pickup position is going to sound more like a P Bass than a bass equipped with an actual P pickup that is placed elsewhere than the traditional P bass position.

 

Also I think you misunderstood it a bit, I don't think sound engineers/producers in general necessarily go to a length to make every bass sound like a P Bass, but most of them do prefer to work with a P Bass in the first place, because that is what most of them will have most experience with, knowing how to manipulate it to get whatever bass tone they are aiming to achieve out of it, and exactly how to make it work well in a mix, to a much higher degree than is that case with just about any other type of bass, which typically will be somewhat more out of their comfort zone. 

 

Edited November 25, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[ezbass]

43 minutes ago, max_overdrive said:

Couldn't you simply put a P pickup on any guitar to achieve that P bass sound?

 

 

[BassAdder60]

I’ve discovered that I’m 100% a PBass player based on feel and sound.

 

I’ve not found anything better suited to my Ampeg V4B and playing rock 

[Lozz196]

Yep it’s the pickup and pickup placement. The Precision is a very versatile instrument, ask the two JJs, Burnel & Jamerson, their sounds don’t have much in common with each other.

[PaulThePlug]

Yep Split P... but not necessarily a Fender Split P.

My post is just an excuse to show off my most wonderful Ibby SR300 Tonerider again... and not to miss an opertunity to 'shout-out' to @Andyjr1515 for the body mods.

Edited November 25, 2023 by PaulThePlug

[neepheid]

Not even every split P pickup has exactly the same amount of copper wire around it.  Not every pole piece is exactly the same density or chemical make up.  You think every single piece of AlNiCo made in existence is identical?  The "P-bass" sound is a ballpark at best and I have distilled it down to meaning "not a Jazz" (and thank goodness for that, because to these cloth ears, Jazz basses are the antibass as far as I'm concerned).

 

If it's made by humans, or made by machines designed by humans, there's going to be some slop in the calculations somewhere.  You'll drive yourself mad trying to wring them out of there.  For years now I have simply had a rough idea of what "good" sounds like to me and run with it.  In broad terms, that makes me more P than J.  Other than that, it's looks and ergonomics which are my primary considerations.  All my basses sound "good" for my wooly, unscientific definition of the term and I choose not to dive deeper, because I've realised that I consider it to be a monumental waste of my time to try to narrow it down further.  I'm not doing a PhD on it, I'm just playing the damn things.

[itu]

"The sound" is made in the mixer boards in the 60's and 70's, when it was placed under all other instruments. Things haven't changed that much, because the bass is still in the same place under similar other instruments and voices.

 

P bass has enough low end to sound decent in the mix. Compared to a SS strung Status, I find a P one very dull sounding instrument by itself. But again, I am not King, and my sound is low pass filtered in the final mix, thus I could play a P.

 

Ergonomics, well, many, maybe most of the Precisions are bulky and heavy to my taste. Vigier Passion on the other hand... I just happen to love French design over an American 50's ice cream bar that has stripes, and funny paint.

[Grahambythesea]

Whilst I don’t fundamentally disagree with most of the above and I’ve played Ps on and off most of my life, I still own one and play it regularly, I’m not sure that the claim about sound engineers holds up. Looking at the world of pro bassists I think more of them play Jazz basses ( or basses with 2 J type pickups) than P basses. Presumably engineers cope with these.

[neepheid]

9 minutes ago, Grahambythesea said:

Whilst I don’t fundamentally disagree with most of the above and I’ve played Ps on and off most of my life, I still own one and play it regularly, I’m not sure that the claim about sound engineers holds up. Looking at the world of pro bassists I think more of them play Jazz basses ( or basses with 2 J type pickups) than P basses. Presumably engineers cope with these.

 

Another good reason for me not to be a "pro bassist", as if my abundant lack of skill wasn't enough 

Edited November 25, 2023 by neepheid

[Baloney Balderdash]

On 25/11/2023 at 16:31, Grahambythesea said:

Whilst I don’t fundamentally disagree with most of the above and I’ve played Ps on and off most of my life, I still own one and play it regularly, I’m not sure that the claim about sound engineers holds up. Looking at the world of pro bassists I think more of them play Jazz basses ( or basses with 2 J type pickups) than P basses. Presumably engineers cope with these.

Out of my top 12 of favorite bass players 5 of them play P or PJ basses, 2 play J (one of those plays just about as much Höfner Violin Bass, and sometimes double bass, and the other mainly plays a fretless J Bass), 1 plays double bass, and the remaining 4 play on various other non P or J pickup based electric basses.

 

So not sure if it is actually true that a majority of pro bass player plays J basses rather than P basses, certainly not from my point of view. 

 

Edited November 26, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[BabyBlueSound]

Consider that some pro bass players own like 300 basses and keep switching them anyway  (I would)

[chris_b]

5 hours ago, max_overdrive said:

There's a thousand different types of P-basses, and the only common denominator is a P pickup. Couldn't you simply put a P pickup on any guitar to achieve that P bass sound?

 

I replaced a 60's Precision pickup which had a weak and lifeless tone, with an 80's Bartolini, which had a huge, warm, fat tone. Same shape totally different sound. 

 

Shape was the only common denominator.

[Baloney Balderdash]

51 minutes ago, BabyBlueSound said:

Consider that some pro bass players own like 300 basses and keep switching them anyway  (I would)

Well, what I questioned was not that most pro bass players play J Basses, they probably do, what I did question was the claim that most pro bass players mainly play J Basses over P Basses.

 

Edited November 25, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[miles'tone]

20 hours ago, Maude said:

Yes, is the short answer. All the other nonsense about wood and fairies will follow. 😉

It's got to be nitro to let them breathe.

For every poly coated P bass made, a fairy dies.

Edited November 26, 2023 by miles'tone

[Baloney Balderdash]

46 minutes ago, miles'tone said:

It's got to be nitro to let them breath. 

For every poly coated P bass made, a fairy dies.

It's true, the tone is in the spirits that lives within the wood.

 

They communicate with your fingers and tells them where to go.

 

Hence where the "tone is in the fingers" sentiment comes from, though really it is the spirits.

 

The fingers are only, so to speak, the origin of tone secondhandedly. 

 

 

Edited November 25, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[SumOne]

I reckon the sound is mostly about where the pickups are placed. And of course, fairy tone spirits. 

 

I think engineers liked P Basses partly as there's less hum (which could be particularly bad in a studio full of wires etc). And they have a more predictable sound. If someone gets to the studio with a Jazz, perhaps they'll go for more bridge or neck pickup than the previous session musician, causing more work for the engineer for it to fit with the studio drums etc. than if it was only P Basses that ever got used. 

 

As far as flexibility, P Basses are the go-to for Soul/Motown and Punk. But I think the Jazz Bass is arguably more versatile, being more of the go-to for genres like Reggae, Funk, Fusion. 

 

[Baloney Balderdash]

27 minutes ago, SumOne said:

I reckon the sound is mostly about where the pickups are placed. And of course, fairy tone spirits. 

 

I think engineers liked P Basses partly as there's less hum (which could be particularly bad in a studio full of wires etc). And they have a more predictable sound. If someone gets to the studio with a Jazz, perhaps they'll go for more bridge or neck pickup than the previous session musician, causing more work for the engineer for it to fit with the studio drums etc. than if it was only P Basses that ever got used. 

 

As far as flexibility, P Basses are the go-to for Soul/Motown and Punk. But I think the Jazz Bass is arguably more versatile, being more of the go-to for genres like Reggae, Funk, Fusion. 

 

On note of flexibility though, quite a difference between the P Bass tone traditionally used in Soul/Motown, and then the one traditionally used in Punk.

 

So yes, a P Bass is definitely capable of a wide variety of tones too, depending on which strings the bass has been equipped with, picking technique, position, and strength applied, whether foam mute is used or not, DI'ed or through cab, which cab, and which amp and amp settings is used, as well as what else is done to the signal after it leaves the bass.

 

Edited November 26, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[police squad]

Fairy dust mixed with snake oil, that's how to do it

[iconic]

I've a feeling that the P bass sound varies on what decade you first experience it...?

 

For example. Pretty much all singles up to mid 70s (?) had bass down and rounded off in the mix, to avoid the needle skipping...so we never really got heard what a natural sounding P bass sounded like.