Studio Etiquette

[Buddster]

Nice looking studio 👍

[Rosie C]

5 hours ago, skidder652003 said:

Whats everyone take on playing to a click track?

 

 

Learning to play to a click track released me from band politics 😎

 

[Franticsmurf]

In the late 80s when I first started out on the musical dream* our keyboard player was on the music tech course run by a local college. He managed to get us a gig as the 'house band', which students learning about the recording studio had to record. It was fun as we got to pretend to be rock stars and to present the students with challenges over and above getting the sound on 8 track tape. We ended up with a three track demo for free. An additional bonus came as the keyboardist was given the keys (pardon the pun) to the studio for the half term break. We went in to record as much of our original material as we could over the three days we had managed to organise being available for. 

 

The keyboard player - the one with all the studio experience - spent most of the first day trying to set up SMPTE (I think) code on the Atari in the studio while we attempted to set up the mics on drums and amps as we remembered them from the previous sessions. On day two we started to record our long, proggy masterpiece but the Atari wasn't playing ball and it took all day just to get the rhythm tracks down. On day three we managed to complete the proggy number but with only a few hours left, the other 7 or 8 songs didn't have a hope. Until we hit on the idea of setting up as a band and playing the whole set live. Drums in one room, vox in the vocal booth, guitar amp isolated in the drum room and keys and bass Di'd. We managed two run throughs and those are the recordings I still occasionally listen to.

 

*may have been a day dream

[WinterMute]

14 hours ago, Downunderwonder said:

Groove is not contained in the click unless your groove is straight 1 2 3 4.

 

The click can incorporate the groove, but you have to plan for it and spend some time in preproduction to get it right.

 

I'm perfectly happy to allow a band to run without a click, provided they can keep decent time, I'll then use the Extract Groove function in protools to create a tempo map of the track so I can do all the time alignment and loop stuff that inevitably turns up later...

 

Conforming a track to the DAW timeline is the most powerful editing tool an engineer has, regardless of whether it came from a click or a tempo map. In my own work, I've come to view the tracking sessions as raw material for the edit, I can re-arrange whole song structures knowing I can preserve feel and intensity, I can quantise audio parts knowing the groove is going to inform everything that's edited. The technology can work for the music, but you have to put the hours in.

 

I completely recognise that many bands simply can't afford the time or money needed to do this kind of detailed work, but the results are undeniably better. Always speak with your engineer ahead of the session and make sure they're going to do what you need them to do, they certainly shouldn't be imposing techniques on you as musicians, they should be responding to the way you want to work.

[Dad3353]

3 minutes ago, WinterMute said:

...I completely recognise that many bands simply can't afford the time or money needed to do this kind of detailed work, but the results are undeniably better. Always speak with your engineer ahead of the session and make sure they're going to do what you need them to do, they certainly shouldn't be imposing techniques on you as musicians, they should be responding to the way you want to work.

 

I can't agree with much of the statement above ¨¨ (depending on the definition of 'better'...). To me, the studio crew should be responding to the way the musicians want you to work. Unless, of course, it's the studio doing the hiring of session folk, in which case I agree. Ideally, it's a symbiosis of like minds working towards a common goal, but if it's the group hiring the studio, it's the group that calls the shots, within the bounds of studio etiquette, naturally. Just my tuppence-worth. 

[WinterMute]

6 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

 

I can't agree with much of the statement above ¨¨ (depending on the definition of 'better'...). To me, the studio crew should be responding to the way the musicians want you to work. Unless, of course, it's the studio doing the hiring of session folk, in which case I agree. Ideally, it's a symbiosis of like minds working towards a common goal, but if it's the group hiring the studio, it's the group that calls the shots, within the bounds of studio etiquette, naturally. Just my tuppence-worth. 

 

Isn't that what I said? It's what I meant... 

 

Studio engineers respond to the needs of the musicians, musicians shouldn't be compromised by engineers working practices.

 

Sorry if I wasn't clear.

[Dad3353]

51 minutes ago, WinterMute said:

 

Isn't that what I said? It's what I meant... 

 

Studio engineers respond to the needs of the musicians, musicians shouldn't be compromised by engineers working practices.

 

Sorry if I wasn't clear.

 

[Lozz196]

It’s funny but when I go into the studio I prefer to work to how the producer wants (aside from radically changing my sound or wanting different instruments to be used). Given we’ve chosen them based upon their results it seems best to work to their preferences. 

[Dad3353]

2 minutes ago, Lozz196 said:

It’s funny but when I go into the studio I prefer to work to how the producer wants (aside from radically changing my sound or wanting different instruments to be used). Given we’ve chosen them based upon their results it seems best to work to their preferences. 

 

Yes indeed, symbiosis. Working in harmony together to mutual benefit. 

[BigRedX]

5 minutes ago, Lozz196 said:

It’s funny but when I go into the studio I prefer to work to how the producer wants (aside from radically changing my sound or wanting different instruments to be used). Given we’ve chosen them based upon their results it seems best to work to their preferences. 

 

I think it depends on what you are doing in the studio.

 

If I've paid for a proper producer to turn my recording into a potential hit single (or at least make it sound loads better than I could manage myself) I'll will be happy to accommodate any changes they might want to make, including changing my sound or even removing me from the recording entirely.

[WinterMute]

1 hour ago, Lozz196 said:

It’s funny but when I go into the studio I prefer to work to how the producer wants (aside from radically changing my sound or wanting different instruments to be used). Given we’ve chosen them based upon their results it seems best to work to their preferences. 

There’s a difference between an engineer led session and a producer led session. 
 

producers should set the style and tone of the project in consultation with the musicians, engineers interpreted that vision.

[TimR]

I'd be very wary of letting anyone loose with quantization.  

[Buddster]

46 minutes ago, WinterMute said:

 

producers should set the style and tone of the project in consultation with the musicians, engineers interpreted that vision.

👍

 

[BigRedX]

51 minutes ago, TimR said:

I'd be very wary of letting anyone loose with quantization.  

 

There's quantisation and quantisation.

 

Dismissing it out of hand just shows your ignorance. After all the whole band are all trying to play on the same beats at the same time.

 

It doesn't have to mean setting everything to an equally spaced grid. All decent modern DAWs will allow you to create a quantisation template from one of the recorded parts, usually the drums but anything rhythmic with the correct feel for the piece will do. When you do it this way because to are using an actual performance to set the quantisation points they are highly unlikely to fall exactly on the regular 1/8 or 1/16 note intervals. The rest of the instruments are then "quantised" to this template which will have the effect of just tightening up the whole performance without making the actual timing rigid. In conjunction with beat detection for tempo changes it just gives a tight performance with just enough "human" feel.

 

I've also used this method with recordings that have been created entirely from sequenced/programmed sources except for the vocals by finding a drum pattern on a record that has the feel I want and using that to create my quantisation template.

[Rexel Matador]

On 29/11/2023 at 01:31, tauzero said:

in a big house in Lichfield that belonged to the studio engineer/producer's parents

I think I once recorded there too!

[TimR]

1 hour ago, BigRedX said:

Dismissing it out of hand just shows your ignorance. After all the whole band are all trying to play on the same beats at the same time.

 

 

No they're not.

[Dad3353]

43 minutes ago, TimR said:

No they're not.

 

[Downunderwonder]

Everyone is playing to a beat. Groove is someone or everyone not necessarily playing on any particular beat for some or all of their notes.

 

I think Tim is wary of letting just anyone mess with the particulars to suit their own interpretation of what was played or should have been played a microsecond sooner or later than recorded.

[StickyDBRmf]

I thought this was about "Studio Etiquette". Where'd everybody go? 

I'll add me little story later, gotta get ready for the pizza. (not in the studio)

[paul_5]

Studio etiquette? LEARN your stinky poo, BRING your stinky poo (plus spares) and SHOWER!!

 

Edited December 1, 2023 by paul_5

[Nail Soup]

On 30/11/2023 at 20:29, TimR said:

Not safe for work. Lots of profanity. 

 

This guy is very funny, but think he hits the mark very well. Part 1 and 2.

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's vewry funny, and good advice too.

Especially funny what he calls bass players and pretending to think they are the most useless liability in the band... he is joking right?

[SteveXFR]

55 minutes ago, Nail Soup said:

That's vewry funny, and good advice too.

Especially funny what he calls bass players and pretending to think they are the most useless liability in the band... he is joking right?

 

Yes, he is. I think he worked with a lot of useless bands in his earlier days where they just gave a bass to someone who couldn't play and showed them three notes not understanding how important good bass is to the overall sound of the band. He's also worked with lots of bands who'd rather spend money on drugs and beer than expensive equipment like bass strings. 

I listen to his videos regularly and whilst bassists are the punchline to a lot of his jokes, tone/gear snob guitarists get at least as much if not more abuse.

[Leonard Smalls]

1 hour ago, Nail Soup said:

good advice

Many years ago when I worked on Beeb dramas like Lovejoy and Hetty Wainthropp I used to go along to the music recording sessions at the BBC TV Centre studio...

in each case there'd be maybe 30 or 40 cues, ranging from 2 - 30 seconds (Napalm Death, eat your hearts out!), and all of it would be recorded and mixed in a day! And this was about 20 musicians with instruments ranging from clarinet to electric bass via keys and drums and even violins.

Every musician knew all their parts, and there was only ever 2 takes recorded, everything to picture!

[upside downer]

23 hours ago, BigRedX said:

If I've paid for a proper producer to turn my recording into a potential hit single I will be happy to accommodate any changes they might want to make, including changing my sound or even removing me from the recording entirely. 

 

You are Milli Vanilli and I claim my £5.

[cheddatom]

Another day, another session, drummer turns up without a ride, no worries, I'll loan a cheaper one from my collection, even though I specified to bring cymbals. Wants to play to a click but can't do it. Hits one of my clip on condenser mics and tries to fix it himself, won't admit to hitting it. Thankfully the mic is fine else the session fee would be wiped out!

 

Oh well, it takes all sorts and I've got to pay the rent!