Studio Etiquette

[TimR]

30 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

 

This is from personal experience as a punter. In the bigger venues (I'm talking Rock City main stage and upwards) it might have sounded OK if you were stood by the mixing desk, but down the front the vocals were bordering on inaudible. In smaller venues like The Boat Club it was just a barrage of loud sound. 

 

Yes. Sound was variable. But that just reinforces what I say about audience expectations. 

 

Most people were listening on mono AM radios in their cars or cassette players.

 

As long as the musicians could pull off a reasonable performance that was all that was expected. In extreme cases - yes - ghost players were used. 

 

The problem now is the musicians don't even need to pull off reasonable performances. Stock, Aitkin and Waterman were pretty bad but it's like an endless stream now of female (and male) vocalists who can't sing, coupled  with a bunch of engineers whose hearing is so "perfect" that they need to adjust everything to be pitch perfect.

 

Karaoke...

 

And bands expect to sound perfect (and loud) - so then the engineers have to polish using all the tools available. It's the snake that eats itself. 

Edited December 5, 2023 by TimR

[Mykesbass]

1 hour ago, nilorius said:

Some one - please don't take it personal, but what is it so bad with those small energy drinks ?

The smell is absolutely nauseating.

[TimR]

Well that and they don't actually work if you're in the studio for a long time. 

 

You get a high then a sugar crash, feel sleepy, take another hit, rinse and repeat all day. Pointless. 

Edited December 5, 2023 by TimR

[nilorius]

2 minutes ago, TimR said:

Well that and they don't actually work if you're in the studio for a long time. 

 

You get a high then a sugar crash, feel sleepy, take another hit, rinse and repeat all day. Pointless. 

Some say - they like it and it helps them. May be it's quite indivisual.

[peteb]

1 hour ago, BigRedX said:

 

This is from personal experience as a punter. In the bigger venues (I'm talking Rock City main stage and upwards) it might have sounded OK if you were stood by the mixing desk, but down the front the vocals were bordering on inaudible. In smaller venues like The Boat Club it was just a barrage of loud sound. 

 

No one is doubting that PA gear is better these days. But it was possible to get a decent sound in most venues in the 80s if you had the gear and knew what you were doing. I'm not at all sure that I would say the same about the 70s and before. 

 

@TimR makes a good point about audience expectations though. How many people saw magical performances in the 70s, etc without a care that what was coming out of the PA wasn't perfect, whereas now everyone would just complain about the sound! 

 

[Stub Mandrel]

1 hour ago, cheddatom said:

 

Something about the smell of them makes me nauseous but I'd rather not impose my weirdness on clients... will do the "no hot food" thing though

 

I think no hot food us reasonable, if there's somewhere people can heat and eat a pasty or whatever. A studio day can be very long without a decent bite to eat.

 

Drinks are problematic, especially singers who might want something on hand to sip. Trouble with 'energy drinks' is it's very specific... do you ban coke, iced coffee...

[Stub Mandrel]

13 minutes ago, peteb said:

 

No one is doubting that PA gear is better these days. But it was possible to get a decent sound in most venues in the 80s if you had the gear and knew what you were doing. I'm not at all sure that I would say the same about the 70s and before. 

 

@TimR makes a good point about audience expectations though. How many people saw magical performances in the 70s, etc without a care that what was coming out of the PA wasn't perfect, whereas now everyone would just complain about the sound! 

 

 

My mate had a 5kW pa in 1983 and it sounded awesome. Remember listening to Dark Side of the Moon on it...

[TimR]

36 minutes ago, nilorius said:

Some say - they like it and it helps them. May be it's quite indivisual.

 

It's like any drug. I drive much better after a couple of pints. 

[nilorius]

3 minutes ago, TimR said:

 

It's like any drug. I drive much better after a couple of pints. 

I preffer - record my part then go with drummer to a nearest pub and take 1-2 x 0,5l live beer.

[Erax Sound]

2 hours ago, TimR said:

The problem now is the musicians don't even need to pull off reasonable performances. Stock, Aitkin and Waterman were pretty bad but it's like an endless stream now of female (and male) vocalists who can't sing, coupled  with a bunch of engineers whose hearing is so "perfect" that they need to adjust everything to be pitch perfect.

 

Karaoke...

 

And bands expect to sound perfect (and loud) - so then the engineers have to polish using all the tools available. It's the snake that eats itself. 

 

Oh dear. I think you'll find that not all of us are the same. I'm pretty sure both myself and @cheddatom are not one of the engineers/producers you refer to. Pile through my website and none of the songs there were quantised. Just punch ins and maybe some small edits.

 

However, things are all relative to the material. I don't do pop at all, but I appreciate what's expected of different genres.

 

However, to quote myself. I recorded a band and the singer said that he wanted the vocals to sound "perfect." After clarification, he suggested basically quantising and tuning the life out of them.

 

I always say "You can have perfection or personality. You can't have both, so choose." Virtually everyone always chooses the latter option.

[TimR]

13 minutes ago, Erax Sound said:

Oh dear. I think you'll find that not all of us are the same. I'm pretty sure both myself and @cheddatom are not one of the engineers/producers you refer to.

 

And that's why I said "I would be wary". 

[Buddster]

I once recorded a cover of Low Rider. The producer made the (quite expensive but very good) brass section play so tight that the record company boss asked why he'd spent so much money on a kazoo! 

[Erax Sound]

17 minutes ago, Buddster said:

I once recorded a cover of Low Rider. The producer made the (quite expensive but very good) brass section play so tight that the record company boss asked why he'd spent so much money on a kazoo! 

As someone who played brass instruments when I was younger, I love recording brass. It's just fantastic. 

[Buddster]

Yes, always great to hear a good brass section on the track, really adds something. 

Worked with the Phenix Horns once. That was a blast! 

[Downunderwonder]

9 hours ago, TimR said:

 

 

One beer is manageable and if I spill it, its my gear. 

 

I don't because there's no way I could tell a drummer to not put his there too. Then the vocalist would want a spot since I am so generous with sharing my 'drinks table'. Beverage free zone is it for me. The same old guy that taught me to loop the lead through the amp handle also forbade drinks on top of gear. A drink that isn't left on top of an amp can never get spilled on the amp.

[Dad3353]

2 hours ago, Downunderwonder said:

... A drink that isn't left on top of an amp can never get spilled on the amp.

 

Oh, I dunno; where does this gobelet land..? 

 

 

[Dan Dare]

19 hours ago, cheddatom said:

Something about the smell of them makes me nauseous but I'd rather not impose my weirdness on clients... will do the "no hot food" thing though

 

Same here. It's the overdone artificial flavouring/smell. As far as generally imposing your wishes on clients goes, it's your territory, so your rules. Clients can come and go/nip out for a smoke, drink or a munch, but you have to be in there the whole time. If you spill your tea on the gear, it's down to you to clean it up or fix any damage done.

 

I wouldn't have a problem with a studio (nice looking set-up you have there, btw) asking me not to eat or drink in the control room. A few years ago, everyone smoked in them. Now we don't. As a smoker, I was happy with being asked not to indulge my addiction in studios before the law was changed.

[Supernaut]

Don't record your part and then clear off down the pub! 

[TimR]

53 minutes ago, Supernaut said:

Don't record your part and then clear off down the pub! 

 

Again that depends.

 

If I'm being recorded it's because someone else wants the recording done. I don't even want to be in a rehearsal room unless it's for working on new material. 

 

I'd be happy playing my part and then heading off but staying contactable if anything major needs changing. If everyone has rehearsed properly then its just a case of playing and being recorded. Studio time is expensive and guitar or vocal double tracking can be worked out in advance using readily available software and a laptop. 

[TimR]

Record everything that you're planning to record on a handheld recorder or phone, and everyone listen to everyone else's parts, well in advance. (May have been mentioned above) On the day is not the time to find out the guitarist has been playing a minor chord over the key's major chord, or the drummer's carefully crafted great fill is crashing the vocal line.

 

That's the same time you decide what the tempo should be, as everyone will be nervous and playing at a million miles an hour.

 

 

Edited December 6, 2023 by TimR

[TimR]

16 hours ago, Downunderwonder said:

I don't because there's no way I could tell a drummer to not put his there too. Then the vocalist would want a spot since I am so generous with sharing my 'drinks table'. Beverage free zone is it for me. The same old guy that taught me to loop the lead through the amp handle also forbade drinks on top of gear. A drink that isn't left on top of an amp can never get spilled on the amp.

 

My drummer would have to have very long arms to reach my bass cab. 😆

 

 

[Erax Sound]

I'm fairly relaxed about this stuff. However, there are red lines. Dont put drinks on my desk. Vaping is a no. Go outside. Drugs? I'm kicking you all out. Energy drinks do smell, but it's not that often that folk have them at mine. Seemingly water, cola or fruit juice is the main thing for my clients. 

[Erax Sound]

8 minutes ago, TimR said:

Record everything that you're planning to record on a handheld recorder or phone, and everyone listen to everyone else's parts, well in advance. (May have been mentioned above) On the day is not the time to find out the guitarist has been playing a minor chord over the key's major chord, or the drummer's carefully crafted great fill is crashing the vocal line.

 

That's the same time you work out the tempo should be as everyone will be nervous and playing at a million miles an hour.

 

 

That should have been done weeks beforehand and is essential prep I insist people follow. If they haven't and it becomes a problem with various members of the band saying whatever "isn't right," I'm stopping the session as I really have no patience for it. I will always do the best I can for anyone and I'll have prepped thoroughly beforehand, but if they don't care enough about what they do to prepare properly, then I'm afraid that there is always going to be problems.

[diskwave]

As with everything today which is sub standard.... the phone. It's the phone thats messing with everthing and everyone. No one toaday can focus on anything....always playing with the phone. Back in the day there were no distractions and you were 100% focused on the job.  If what Im reading is the way it is now and I ran a studio? All phones would be left outside until the job is finished.

[BigRedX]

If I was running a commercial studio, all the work areas - control rooms and studio rooms would be faraday cages and there would be no WiFi. If you are in the studio or control room you are there to work. If you want to play on your phone go somewhere else.