Studio Etiquette

[cheddatom]

  On 02/04/2024 at 14:42, StingRayBoy42 said:

Do exactly what the client/producer asks you to and tune up before every take.

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You wouldn't believe the number of people that don't or even can't tune up using a digital tuner. I reckon I tune an instrument for the player in at least a third of my sessions

[diskwave]

  On 02/04/2024 at 15:47, cheddatom said:

You wouldn't believe the number of people that don't or even can't tune up using a digital tuner

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So way before "digital" this and that on all those old jazz records Motown cuts the guitar/bass players are out of tune?  I started playing bass in 1977. I tuned to whoever was the dominant player, guitar, keys...horns, whatever and I was always in tune. As a much lesser cello player I use a tiny pitch pipe...never fails me..ever. 

Edited April 2, 2024 by diskwave

[cheddatom]

  On 02/04/2024 at 19:01, diskwave said:

So way before "digital" this and that on all those old jazz records Motown cuts the guitar/bass players are out of tune?  I started playing bass in 1977. I tuned to whoever was the dominant player, guitar, keys...horns, whatever and I was always in tune. As a much lesser cello player I use a tiny pitch pipe...never fails me..ever. 

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It's common to add virtual instruments to songs so it's important to get everyone in tune with the computer 

[BigRedX]

In the days before electronic tuners the practice would be for the rest of the musicians to tune to whatever instrument was the hardest to retune. Normally the the studio piano.

 

However many recordings would have their speed (and pitch) altered in order to get a better feel, usually being sped up, so it is very common for the final released version to somewhere between a quarter and a semitone off standard pitch.

[Mykesbass]

  On 03/04/2024 at 07:45, BigRedX said:

In the days before electronic tuners the practice would be for the rest of the musicians to tune to whatever instrument was the hardest to retune. Normally the the studio piano.

 

However many recordings would have their speed (and pitch) altered in order to get a better feel, usually being sped up, so it is very common for the final released version to somewhere between a quarter and a semitone off standard pitch.

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Dave Robinson at Stiff was notorious for speeding up recordings. I think it was Tracey Ullman who was interviewed saying that even miming her track on TOTP was exhausting!

[diskwave]

  On 03/04/2024 at 07:07, cheddatom said:

It's common to add virtual instruments to songs so it's important to get everyone in tune with the computer 

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And that makes for great music does it? Of course not.

[neepheid]

  On 03/04/2024 at 08:21, diskwave said:

And that makes for great music does it? Of course not.

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It might do.  WTF has gotten into you?  Go take your rose tinted specs off and have a wee snooze, maybe you'll feel better later.

[BreadBin]

  On 03/04/2024 at 08:21, diskwave said:

And that makes for great music does it? Of course not.

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That is just your opinion. 

I don't agree, and I'm sure I am not alone.

[BigRedX]

  On 03/04/2024 at 08:21, diskwave said:

And that makes for great music does it? Of course not.

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Everyone on the recording needs to be in tune with the same thing. What it is doesn't matter in the slightest.

[diskwave]

  On 03/04/2024 at 08:25, neepheid said:

 

It might do.  WTF has gotten into you?  Go take your rose tinted specs off and have a wee snooze, maybe you'll feel better later.

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Rubbish and wind ur flippin neck in. You wanna diss all those classic tunes that people like you now have to "sample" to make yoiur music right, go ahead. But you will never ever better what came before so wind it in. And with that I bid you good day sir. Tho no doubt youll have the last word. I will not be responding.

[neepheid]

  On 03/04/2024 at 09:02, diskwave said:

Rubbish and wind ur flippin neck in. You wanna diss all those classic tunes that people like you now have to "sample" to make yoiur music right, go ahead. But you will never ever better what came before so wind it in. And with that I bid you good day sir. Tho no doubt youll have the last word. I will not be responding.

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I will have the last word, thanks.  How f'n dare you cast aspersions about me.  Please find and quote me where I have ever "diss(ed) all those classic tunes".  "People like me"?  That would require some knowledge of the kind of person I am, of which you have none.  You know the square root of hee haw about me, my music or how it is/was made, but thanks for telling me how crap it is and to pack it in because there's no point. 

 

In fact, everyone go home - all valid music has been already created, you're wasting your time, because @diskwave, the arbiter of taste has decreed it thus.  Have you any idea how stupid you sound?  Read it back - you're being a complete moron, running around in this thread like a bull in a china shop, accusing people of all sorts, argumentatively disagreeing with anyone who has a different opinion to you.  You're forum poison right now.  Why can't you just accept that people having a different opinion to you is not an attempt to invalidate your opinion, which you are more than entitled to have BTW.  You like the old days.  Good for you, I like 'em too.  There are people who disagree with you, and guess what - they're not wrong either.

[JoeEvans]

A discussion about tuning that rapidly escalates into a fist fight - definitely takes me back to a couple of past studio sessions...

[MacDaddy]

  On 02/04/2024 at 19:01, diskwave said:

So way before "digital" this and that on all those old jazz records Motown cuts the guitar/bass players are out of tune?

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For the guitarists very most probably.

There is a difference between perfect tuning and well tempered tuning. Some guitarists really notice it on the F# on the high E string, and tune by ear. But by a digital tuner it would be out.

IIRC it was an old jazz guitar trick, to tune slightly sharp (we're talking microtones here) as it made the solos stand out.

[TimR]

  On 03/04/2024 at 07:45, BigRedX said:

In the days before electronic tuners the practice would be for the rest of the musicians to tune to whatever instrument was the hardest to retune. Normally the the studio piano.

 

However many recordings would have their speed (and pitch) altered in order to get a better feel, usually being sped up, so it is very common for the final released version to somewhere between a quarter and a semitone off standard pitch.

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Quite. Anyone not tuning to an electronic tuner nowadays would get some odd looks. 

 

I'm not sure I've ever tuned to a 'computer'.

[StingRayBoy42]

  On 03/04/2024 at 09:26, JoeEvans said:

A discussion about tuning that rapidly escalates into a fist fight - definitely takes me back to a couple of past studio sessions...

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I think we all need to be a bit more well tempered...

[Doctor J]

I see what you did there 

[tauzero]

  On 03/04/2024 at 09:02, diskwave said:

Rubbish and wind ur flippin neck in. You wanna diss all those classic tunes that people like you now have to "sample" to make yoiur music right, go ahead. But you will never ever better what came before so wind it in. And with that I bid you good day sir. Tho no doubt youll have the last word. I will not be responding.

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How is saying that some people can't or don't use digital tuners dissing classic tunes? You really are making several mountains out of a grain of sand, just because you use a pitch pipe (oh f*cking la de da).

[ezbass]

  On 03/04/2024 at 09:26, JoeEvans said:

A discussion about (insert any benign subject) that rapidly escalates into a fist fight

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This has been the BC vibe on quite a few threads lately, which is sad.  

[neepheid]

  On 03/04/2024 at 11:20, ezbass said:

This has been the BC vibe on quite a few threads lately, which is sad.  

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I walk away all the time, but it was made personal and that I will not tolerate without reply.

[ezbass]

  On 03/04/2024 at 11:26, neepheid said:

it was made personal and that I will not tolerate without reply.

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Fair play to you, neep. I wasn't commenting on your response. There have been a lot of provocative posts, by a number of folk, in various threads recently, that seem to have been squarely aimed at winding others up. I even believe that there's a technical, internet term for those kinds of comments, something to do with living under bridges, or suchlike.

[BigRedX]

Unfortunately @diskwave has previous form for joining topics mid-way through a reasonable discussion for what seems like the sole intention of posting something contentious and then flouncing off when challenged.

[BreadBin]

  On 03/04/2024 at 11:40, BigRedX said:

Unfortunately @diskwave has previous form for joining topics mid-way through a reasonable discussion for what seems like the sole intention of posting something contentious and then flouncing off when challenged.

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He behaves exactly like other (now banned) members. 

Almost as if it is a duplicate account, this is frowned upon I believe. 

[Erax Sound]

  On 02/04/2024 at 11:40, WinterMute said:

The things we do for money eh? 

 

I'm glad that phase of my career only lasted about a year, I moved to a excellent studio after that and nearly all the sessions were of good quality, and then I went freelance and I could chose the sessions I worked on after that.

 

Now I work purely for the fun of it, and it's a great hobby to have.

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I must admit, I've made the mistake of taking things just for money. Never again. Nowadays I'm quite picky with whom I work with.

 

For example, people who can't make up their minds about stuff are mental health kryptonite for me. They generally don't realise how toxic they are. They ask for stuff, you do it and yet they won't like it and not be able to tell you why either. Plus, it's your fault for having done what they asked despite pointing out any pitfalls which might ensue.

 

For the most part, I tend to only work with bands or artists I like or would like to work with. Anybody that twinges the old spidey sense is a no. 

 

This has saved me masses of stress over the years and there's no getting away from the fact you'll have a bad session every so often. What one can do is minimise the risk of getting one though.

[Stub Mandrel]

  On 03/04/2024 at 09:39, MacDaddy said:

 

For the guitarists very most probably.

There is a difference between perfect tuning and well tempered tuning. Some guitarists really notice it on the F# on the high E string, and tune by ear. But by a digital tuner it would be out.

IIRC it was an old jazz guitar trick, to tune slightly sharp (we're talking microtones here) as it made everyone else sound flat.

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Let me fix that for you 😁

[Stub Mandrel]

  On 03/04/2024 at 09:40, TimR said:

Quite. Anyone not tuning to an electronic tuner nowadays would get some odd looks. 

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Feel very old. Last time I was in a studio, I used my tuning fork (A=440). Which I still have*.



*And it's spot on according to a rather unresponsive but usable Guitarman tuner.