Studio Etiquette

[Buddster]

36 minutes ago, Leonard Smalls said:

Many years ago when I worked on Beeb dramas like Lovejoy and Hetty Wainthropp I used to go along to the music recording sessions at the BBC TV Centre studio...

in each case there'd be maybe 30 or 40 cues, ranging from 2 - 30 seconds (Napalm Death, eat your hearts out!), and all of it would be recorded and mixed in a day! And this was about 20 musicians with instruments ranging from clarinet to electric bass via keys and drums and even violins.

Every musician knew all their parts, and there was only ever 2 takes recorded, everything to picture!

I only worked on 3 or 4 orchestral sessions, but when i did it was full on concentration (this was for pop music eather than tv). Everything was set up the night before and line tested. Back then (maybe still?) a MU session was 3 hours and if you went a minute over, you'd be charged another 3 hours for the whole orchestra. Those playes knew thier dots! In fact on 1 session, Mo Foster was the bass player. 

As an assistant, I was ment to open the studio at 9 to let everyone in for a 10 start. I was late leaving the house and London traffic made me even worse. All I could think about was 30 musicians waiting outside the front door and me getting the blame and the money it would cost. 

Thankfully, one of the other assistants happened to get an earlier than normal train into work and had opened up. 

My relief was immense, but it tought me a lesson about being on time. 

[Stub Mandrel]

1 hour ago, SteveXFR said:

 

Yes, he is. I think he worked with a lot of useless bands in his earlier days where they just gave a bass to someone who couldn't play and showed them three notes not understanding how important good bass is to the overall sound of the band. He's also worked with lots of bands who'd rather spend money on drugs and beer than expensive equipment like bass strings. 

I listen to his videos regularly and whilst bassists are the punchline to a lot of his jokes, tone/gear snob guitarists get at least as much if not more abuse.

 

The real victims are anyone who owns a Line 6 Spider.

[Stub Mandrel]

Studio etiquette.

 

I had no idea what to expect the first time I went into a proper studio. I had seen a handful of tv shots of the Beatles etc. In a studio. Nothing like you can see now on youtube.

 

I do remember two things - first no option, go direct into the desk, no amp allowed. Second, both times the engineer said they wanted to record my Hohner B2 not my Fender Performer after doing an a/b test. One time I was asked to raise my action a tad to reduce fret buzz.

 

Process was record a 'guide track' live. Then drums, bass, guitars and an absolute age on vocals.

 

This was despite rehearsing in 'Rob's Caravan of Doom' - a tiny space where every visit would be recorded by the eponymous Rob as he used it to improve his own skills as a sound engineer.

 

But there is still a dire shortage of even basic guides on what to expect, how to prepare and what to bring.

Edited December 2, 2023 by Stub Mandrel

[Suburban Man]

4 hours ago, Leonard Smalls said:

Many years ago when I worked on Beeb dramas like Lovejoy and Hetty Wainthropp I used to go along to the music recording sessions at the BBC TV Centre studio...

in each case there'd be maybe 30 or 40 cues, ranging from 2 - 30 seconds (Napalm Death, eat your hearts out!), and all of it would be recorded and mixed in a day! And this was about 20 musicians with instruments ranging from clarinet to electric bass via keys and drums and even violins.

Every musician knew all their parts, and there was only ever 2 takes recorded, everything to picture!

In a way its a problem now that everyone expects to multi-track recordings with each musician playing one at a time and then mix down.  A lot of really great songs were done pretty much 'as live' followed by a couple of overdubs.  If you read Robbie Robertson's book about the early years of The Band, they learnt that they couldn't work in isolation from each other and even in the studio preferred to be grouped together so that they could pick up the vibe from each other.  I know that multitrack is the only way to get the 'polish' that is expected nowadays, but a bit of 'as live' isn't a bad way to start - is it?  Shoot me down in flames... etc. etc. 

[SteveXFR]

3 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

 

The real victims are anyone who owns a Line 6 Spider.

 

There's one in the practice space we use. Our guitarist used it while his Marshall was being repaired. He developed a deep hatred for that thing because it doesn't work with pedals and all the high gain settings sound terrible. We did recently find a use for it, it makes a good weight to stop the kick drum moving forwards. Terrible amplifier, useful dead weight.

[nilorius]

Running a recording studio is like being in virtual insanity all the time !

[StickyDBRmf]

First time in studio 1981. We were ready. Drummer knew how to tune his kit, keyboard player took too long. Well, had lotsa keys/synths. Guitarist knew his sound. Me? Bassist with the full gig-rig. Engineer mic'd me & put a DI box on me. Ran the tunes down to get the "band" feel.

I later needed to over-dub, wasn't getting the sound right. Engineer brought me in the control room and sent me straight into the desk. What a revelation! I had never heard my basses like that before! (P bass w/ fretless ebony neck & Dimarzio pu, Ibanez Studio 8-string). Much better, to my (and everyone else's) ears. 

Years and years later, Chapman Stick and a PODX3, at home, with headphones. Trying to get "that sound". Every bass sim tried. Accidently put one of the mixing board pre's in, "Prog Vocal" (Vintage UK). Eureka! The words of the engineer come back to me. 

Dumb bass player go straight in board...

Yes, I do use amp & speaker emulations (favourites are Eden and Alembic preamp) but I still do like a desk pre.

[WinterMute]

40 minutes ago, Suburban Man said:

In a way its a problem now that everyone expects to multi-track recordings with each musician playing one at a time and then mix down.  A lot of really great songs were done pretty much 'as live' followed by a couple of overdubs.  If you read Robbie Robertson's book about the early years of The Band, they learnt that they couldn't work in isolation from each other and even in the studio preferred to be grouped together so that they could pick up the vibe from each other.  I know that multitrack is the only way to get the 'polish' that is expected nowadays, but a bit of 'as live' isn't a bad way to start - is it?  Shoot me down in flames... etc. etc. 

 

Completely agree with both you and Robbie, the downside is that you need a recording space that is capable of housing a full group and sounds good enough to act as recording space, that's why the legendary rooms found their fame, Abbey Road studio 2, The Mill, Rockfield studio 1 (although the coach house is better for drums IMO), Knopflers GB studios, Konk, Rock City etc. 

 

The trend for total isolation and overdubbing came as studios got cheaper and smaller, you can record and mix to excellent results on a laptop IF you have a decent acoustic space to record and mix in.

 

I always track at least drums and bass together with guide guitars and vocals if possible, I'll only OD bass if really necessary, but the groove has already been established between the players, it fells better generally. If I can get the whole band together then the majority of the backing track goes down in one go and the overdubs are done to fix errors or add parts. Generally vocals are the only exception.

 

This does mean musicians have to be good enough tp play a whole song all the way through without errors however, this is not a given.

[cheddatom]

2 hours ago, WinterMute said:

...I always track at least drums and bass together with guide guitars and vocals if possible, I'll only OD bass if really necessary, but the groove has already been established between the players, it fells better generally. If I can get the whole band together then the majority of the backing track goes down in one go and the overdubs are done to fix errors or add parts. Generally vocals are the only exception.

 

This does mean musicians have to be good enough tp play a whole song all the way through without errors however, this is not a given.

 

I take the same approach, if the band are up to it

[Crusoe]

9 hours ago, upside downer said:

 

You are Milli Vanilli and I claim my £5.

He is Jason Newsted and I claim your £5

[Crusoe]

9 hours ago, upside downer said:

 

 

Edited December 2, 2023 by Crusoe
Duplicate post

[nilorius]

17 minutes ago, Crusoe said:

He is Jason Newsted and I claim your £5

He is Harry Poter, and I claim his 10$.

[TimR]

9 hours ago, cheddatom said:

Another day, another session, drummer turns up without a ride, no worries, I'll loan a cheaper one from my collection, even though I specified to bring cymbals. Wants to play to a click but can't do it. Hits one of my clip on condenser mics and tries to fix it himself, won't admit to hitting it. Thankfully the mic is fine else the session fee would be wiped out!

 

Oh well, it takes all sorts and I've got to pay the rent! 

 

Should have got the keyboard player to move the mics. 

[TimR]

Seriously though, I'm not sure using high grade recoding gear for musicians you have no track record with should be the norm. 

 

 

[TimR]

4 hours ago, WinterMute said:

This does mean musicians have to be good enough tp play a whole song all the way through without errors however, this is not a given.

 

Short of red light fever this should be a basic requisite of every band. Or at least have the guitar amps in an enclosure so the drum kit is bleed free. 

[WinterMute]

43 minutes ago, TimR said:

 

Short of red light fever this should be a basic requisite of every band. Or at least have the guitar amps in an enclosure so the drum kit is bleed free. 

 

That's certainly one way, although drum booths were a good result if you were intending to replace ambience later in the mix.

 

I learned to mic bands in open rooms to minimise bleed, or to utilise it if there was no intention to fix the performances in post. I've run many sessions where the entire bands rhythm section is taken in one pass, and the take that was used was the one that felt best provided there were no terminal mistakes. That really did test the ability of 3 or 4 musicians to play a track without mistakes and whilst creating the groove dynamic and performance required.

 

There is a good reason that professional musicians are professional.

[TimR]

18 minutes ago, WinterMute said:

There is a good reason that professional musicians are professional.

 

Indeed. 

 

One reason I gave up trying to record bands or pay for recoding bands I was in.

 

Delusions of grandeur. 

 

If you're getting gigs and getting asked back you don't need a demo.

 

If you're not getting asked back - a demo of how bad you are won't fix that. 

[tauzero]

On 01/12/2023 at 14:15, Rexel Matador said:

I think I once recorded there too!

 

I've just been reminded by another post - I think it was called the Coach House. Engineer was, IIRC, Rob.

[scalpy]

16 hours ago, WinterMute said:

Rockfield studio 1 (although the coach house is better for drums IMO)

 

 

Completely agree, although the quad isn’t exactly shabby (apart from to look at 😉🤣)

[SteveXFR]

10 hours ago, TimR said:

 

Indeed. 

 

One reason I gave up trying to record bands or pay for recoding bands I was in.

 

Delusions of grandeur. 

 

If you're getting gigs and getting asked back you don't need a demo.

 

If you're not getting asked back - a demo of how bad you are won't fix that. 

 

We recorded a demo (original metal) and its been really useful for getting gigs. We get invited back after gigs but we also like to play different places so we send the venue or promoter a demo then if they like it, they book us. 

Maybe it's particularly useful for metal because there's so many sub genres of metal that just saying your a metal band gives no idea of what you sound like 

[Erax Sound]

My personal favourite is when bands haven't listened to what each other are doing. So, they send me a guide guitar track which sounds fine. Has the drummer practiced or listened to it? Of course not. This then ends up in a conversation of the band arguing about what structurally is right or wrong. Naturally, the drummer can't play the song properly. 

 

I always give a band info that they should be prepared and not just try to "wing it." Very few bands actually do that though. Guess they haven't read that properly either.

 

I inform them they've got 30 minutes to agree between each other or I halt the session and throw them out. Naturally, they can't agree, so they've just paid me for nothing as they're not getting their deposit back and will have to pay to rebook. They came back 6 weeks later prepped and it was all good. Just they'd wasted several hundred quid.

 

As for instruments, anyone can use what I have in the studio. Quite often this becomes a necessity when a guitar or bass doesn't want to work properly. Rare, but it happens.

 

Anyone who thinks quantising is the work of Satan is presumably still recording to tape? I generally favour light touch edits as much as possible. Which is to say, full takes if possible, but with punch ins for any part that might have been flubbed. If a drum track is so bad that I've had to quantise the whole lot then the band have the wrong drummer for their material. It's that simple. 

 

For the most part, being relatively picky in who I work with, bad sessions are in the minority by a long way. Sometimes, folk have a bad day or don't prep (despite saying they have) and it's rare, but happens.

[WinterMute]

7 hours ago, scalpy said:

Completely agree, although the quad isn’t exactly shabby (apart from to look at 😉🤣)

 

I loved the Quad, there's a real sense of history about it, but I love the flagstone corridor outside the coach house for a bit of violent drum room action.

[diskwave]

The title is etiquette, It does seem to have morphed into general studio chitchat, which is cool. Anyway one observation. How does tightening up the tempo make the final recording good? Gazillions of old recordings made without post recording tempo management, and those old tunes are now industry standard gold. Maybe someone could help me out. 

Edited December 3, 2023 by zrbass

[TimR]

4 hours ago, zrbass said:

The title is etiquette, It does seem to have morphed into general studio chitchat, which is cool. Anyway one observation. How does tightening up the tempo make the final recording good? Gazillions of old recordings made without post recording tempo management, and those old tunes are now industry standard gold. Maybe someone could help me out. 

 

It doesn't. It makes it worse. 

 

If something really needs adjusting then fine, use it selectively on one phrase on the musician who has slipped. But running everything through beat detective and pulling it all together just because you can is a really bad idea. 

 

Next - autotune on vocals. 😆

Edited December 3, 2023 by TimR

[SteveXFR]

This demonstrates it well

 

 

Edited December 3, 2023 by SteveXFR