Cab for DB... are Euphonic Audio still the bee's knees or is that all in the past?

[Richard Jinman]

Thought I'd open a can of worms, but I'd genuinely like to know the answer. I have an Acoustic Image Clarus and love it. My AI cab (doubleshot) is great in rehearsal type situations, but I'd like something with a bit more grunt for bigger gigs. The late lamented Euphonic Audio were obviously the go-to cabs for DB in the past, but I'm wondering if the likes of Bergantino etc would be their equivalent or better given the passing of time? I guess this is a variation on the 'what's a great clean sounding cab' question which has been asked previously, but it would be good to know if my EA fixation is purely nostalgia or based in some kind of reality? 

[Richard Jinman]

2 minutes ago, Richard Jinman said:

Thought I'd open a can of worms, but I'd genuinely like to know the answer. I have an Acoustic Image Clarus and love it. My AI cab (doubleshot) is great in rehearsal type situations, but I'd like something with a bit more grunt for bigger gigs. The late lamented Euphonic Audio were obviously the go-to cabs for DB in the past, but I'm wondering if the likes of Bergantino etc would be their equivalent or better given the passing of time? I guess this is a variation on the 'what's a great clean sounding cab' question which has been asked previously, but it would be good to know if my EA fixation is purely nostalgia or based in some kind of reality? 

... and when I say grunt I was thinking 1x12 with tweeter or even 2x12

[Richard Jinman]

36 minutes ago, Richard Jinman said:

... and when I say grunt I was thinking 1x12 with tweeter or even 2x12

I think what I'm describing is Magical Equipment Syndrome - the idea that certain amps and cabs will deliver an unparalleled sound based on a vague notion rather than any concrete knowledge of engineering, acoustics etc. So, it would be great to hear from someone who actually understands some of these things. Or doesn't. It's all fun. 

[fretless]

Richard

 

When you have the answer, let us all know - I suspect it is not of this world, yet !

 

fretless

[JoeEvans]

Following various experiments I came to the conclusion that the best DB sound for me came from the right mic then as little as possible on the way to a good active PA speaker, or just straight into the venue PA. I'm not sure if bass-specific amps and cabs are the right thing for DB.

[Richard Jinman]

31 minutes ago, JoeEvans said:

Following various experiments I came to the conclusion that the best DB sound for me came from the right mic then as little as possible on the way to a good active PA speaker, or just straight into the venue PA. I'm not sure if bass-specific amps and cabs are the right thing for DB.

Interesting, thanks

[keeponehandloose]

Barefaced Big Baby II. 

[Richard Jinman]

11 hours ago, keeponehandloose said:

Barefaced Big Baby II. 

Do you use one with DB?

[Burns-bass]

3 minutes ago, Richard Jinman said:

Do you use one with DB?

I use Barefaced cabs and they’re great for volume with my magnetic pickup but I don’t find they pick up on the subtleties of the acoustic bass.

 

I know a fair few bass players now use a preamp into an FRFR speaker. These are designed not to colour the sound, but can provide the “heft” you want.

 

I’m no expert (on anything) but I’m sure someone on here can provide some ideas on appropriate speakers for DB. 

[Happy Jack]

I use a Crazy 8 on an old PA pole as my stage monitor (putting the cab at ear level virtually guarantees no feedback concerns) and then get most of my bass sound and volume through the band PA. All of my gigs include @Silvia Bluejay on sound engineer duty so the mix always sounds great out front while I don't need to worry about what the audience is hearing.

 

This video is from the loudest and most raucous of the pub gigs we play:

 

[bassace]

When I was ‘very busy’ playing with a seven piece I used a Clarus on top of a 10” EA Wizzy on top of a 12” EA Wizzy. It’s not always a good idea to mix disparate cabs; more a suck it and see exercise. But this worked very well with the 10” somehow putting a firmer bottom into the combination. For smaller gigs I could get away with using just the 12”.

 

Recently I’ve tended to use a Tecamp Puma on a Genzler array but my smaller Wizzy is definitely a keeper, especially with a trio or quartet on a carpeted stage.

[guyl]

Yep - can of worms right there @Richard Jinman.

 

I had two VL-110 cabs at one time. Paired with a the white faced EA iAmp head. Lovely clean sound. With a great pickup, upright sounded awesome. One cab on its own was never quite man enough for me so usually I used both. And although they were compact, were a reasonable weight so a trolley or two trips to the car needed.

 

I know nothing about the engineering or technical side. But my guess is those cabs had some really great (and maybe innovative) ideas in the speaker design. But speaker enclosures and tech have moved on - and you can probably do better with a more modern cab. By better I mean lighter, louder, more efficient...  I'm not thinking of trading my Markbass and/or Barefaced cabs for a return to EA.

 

Also, my view (today, but it changes!): I'm happy with a reasonably transparent sounding speaker that can cope with the volumes required. The biggest tonal factors are pickup and amp. And bass set up and strings. Oh yes - and technique!    

 

 

[symcbass]

On 08/12/2023 at 21:04, keeponehandloose said:

Barefaced Big Baby II. 

I'll second this for upright.

For the last 5 years plus, I've used Fearless F115 and barefaced cabs for loud near acoustic sounding upright.

The big baby 2 (or 3 now) is the sweet spot compromise for me between weight and tone. It's my gigging cab now.

The Fearless is better to my ears for a more solid bottom end and slightly scooped upper mids (without having to eq), but a single bb2 does all of my quiet, and loud upright gigs now.

I've got 2 if the stage requires it.

Be aware, the Barefaced 12" cabs are "different" at first go. Its very flat, but takes eq very well. Very different to more "coloured" cabs ive had before.

 

[jrixn1]

On 07/12/2023 at 11:30, Richard Jinman said:

what's a great clean sounding cab

 

A Big Baby 2/3 can go very loud.  You wrote in another thread that you are "playing with a trad jazz band (+1 drummer, Sax, trombone etc)".  A BB3 rig is likely massive overkill for that lineup.  If you're going with Barefaced perhaps their smaller Super Mini T would be better.

 

Having said that, if I was called for that gig I'd take my QSC CP12 (a small 12" active PA speaker).

[Richard Jinman]

9 hours ago, jrixn1 said:

 

A Big Baby 2/3 can go very loud.  You wrote in another thread that you are "playing with a trad jazz band (+1 drummer, Sax, trombone etc)".  A BB3 rig is likely massive overkill for that lineup.  If you're going with Barefaced perhaps their smaller Super Mini T would be better.

 

Having said that, if I was called for that gig I'd take my QSC CP12 (a small 12" active PA speaker).

The powered speaker route is something of a mystery to me. My understanding is you use a pre amp like a Headway to run a speaker which is essentially one half of a PA system. I’m wondering what the advantages of this are? Presumably it’s a little less kit, but class D amps are pretty tiny. Do you feel the sound is better than a conventional amp/cab set up?

[Paddy Morris]

Theres a Barefaced used BB2 on reverb right now.  Get it to try, and if it's not for you then you'll most likely be able to sell it again for what you paid.

[jrixn1]

2 hours ago, Richard Jinman said:

I’m wondering what the advantages of this are? Presumably it’s a little less kit, but class D amps are pretty tiny. Do you feel the sound is better than a conventional amp/cab set up?

 

I previously had a Genz Benz Shuttle and a Big Baby 2 - flat-response, sounded good, and loud.  Advantages of an active speaker?  Bi-amped, power amps matched to speakers, DSP (including speaker protection), less expensive, tiltable, availability (you could buy a new one today).  The Barefaced's advantage is that it is lightweight. 

[chyc]

This talk about BB2s has got me thinking about a decent alternative I tried recently. At the SE Bass Bash I was able to try out the LfSys cabinets using my double bass, the cabs being made by @stevie of this parish. I was impressed with the sound that it generated. If you had to make me choose between the cabinets he sells, then no question the 10" Monza was the best sounding of the bunch for upright bass. My favourite sounding cabinet that I own is a 6.5" GSS. I would recommend that one except you're saying a Doubleshot doesn't give you enough grunt. The Monza seems to have that GSS sound, but it can go much louder, probably as loud as I need it to go. Wished I'd played them side by side now. Maybe next year's bash

 

I've never tried a BB2, but I would say that if LfSys's 12" cabinets are supposed to go toe to toe with the BB2, then the Monza is more appropriate for double bass. How does the Monza compare with a doubleshot? I don't know sorry as I've never seen a DS, and sadly I probably never will. I was incredibly saddened to hear this year of the passing of Rick Jones at Acoustic Image. I own two Acoustic Images. One is old enough to vote and drink alcohol.

 

Warning, subjectivity ahead:   This is my best guess as to why I prefer smaller cabs. Flat-response is a really good indicator of a good speaker cabinet, but there are other things to consider. For me the signal coming from my pickup is absolutely not the sound I hear or indeed I want to hear out front. A piezo pick-up contains far too much fundamental frequency for my taste, so for double bass for me at least a flat response sits lower in the priority list. I would guess that the 10" cone naturally limits the ultra-low frequencies that I hate so much compared to the 12" that these electric types seem to prefer these days. Also, at the other end of the frequency spectrum that horrible scratchy noise that electric bassists hate so much I would regard as string detail and I love it! My Rolls-Royce amplification setup has me using a blended signal of microphone and pickup. The pickup does the grunt work, and the microphone gives me the upper frequencies and air that I find lacking with just a pickup.

 

Coming back from my aside, if people are recommending BB2, I would say that LfSys seem to be similar in mission to Barefaced, and also apparently a fair bit cheaper as well. To be honest, I'm really surprised nobody's mentioned LfSys yet as they seem to be very well regarded on this forum.

 

 

 

[Richard Jinman]

14 minutes ago, chyc said:

This talk about BB2s has got me thinking about a decent alternative I tried recently. At the SE Bass Bash I was able to try out the LfSys cabinets using my double bass, the cabs being made by @stevie of this parish. I was impressed with the sound that it generated. If you had to make me choose between the cabinets he sells, then no question the 10" Monza was the best sounding of the bunch for upright bass. My favourite sounding cabinet that I own is a 6.5" GSS. I would recommend that one except you're saying a Doubleshot doesn't give you enough grunt. The Monza seems to have that GSS sound, but it can go much louder, probably as loud as I need it to go. Wished I'd played them side by side now. Maybe next year's bash

 

I've never tried a BB2, but I would say that if LfSys's 12" cabinets are supposed to go toe to toe with the BB2, then the Monza is more appropriate for double bass. How does the Monza compare with a doubleshot? I don't know sorry as I've never seen a DS, and sadly I probably never will. I was incredibly saddened to hear this year of the passing of Rick Jones at Acoustic Image. I own two Acoustic Images. One is old enough to vote and drink alcohol.

 

Warning, subjectivity ahead:   This is my best guess as to why I prefer smaller cabs. Flat-response is a really good indicator of a good speaker cabinet, but there are other things to consider. For me the signal coming from my pickup is absolutely not the sound I hear or indeed I want to hear out front. A piezo pick-up contains far too much fundamental frequency for my taste, so for double bass for me at least a flat response sits lower in the priority list. I would guess that the 10" cone naturally limits the ultra-low frequencies that I hate so much compared to the 12" that these electric types seem to prefer these days. Also, at the other end of the frequency spectrum that horrible scratchy noise that electric bassists hate so much I would regard as string detail and I love it! My Rolls-Royce amplification setup has me using a blended signal of microphone and pickup. The pickup does the grunt work, and the microphone gives me the upper frequencies and air that I find lacking with just a pickup.

 

Coming back from my aside, if people are recommending BB2, I would say that LfSys seem to be similar in mission to Barefaced, and also apparently a fair bit cheaper as well. To be honest, I'm really surprised nobody's mentioned LfSys yet as they seem to be very well regarded on this forum.

 

 

 

Very interesting… have to admit I haven’t heard of LfSys

[TheRev]

5 hours ago, chyc said:

.At the SE Bass Bash I was able to try out the LfSys cabinets using my double bass, the cabs being made by @stevie of this parish. I was impressed with the sound that it generated. If you had to make me choose between the cabinets he sells, then no question the 10" Monza was the best sounding of the bunch for upright bass.

 

 

I actually preferred the 12" Monaco over the Monza, but that was probably because it sounded closer to my MAS 45.

 

If I had to replace my MAS cabs, I'd be looking at a LfSys Monaco or a couple of Barefaced 10s

[keeponehandloose]

I've tried 10s 12s & 15s for upright over many years. 12s definetly work best on upright. 

But more important than any amp or cab is strings and pickup choice.

Thats 80% of the sound.

[Beer of the Bass]

I had a Wizzy 10, it was nice but not magic compared to other 1x10" cabs. I found it a little peaky in the upper mids, which is great for hearing yourself clearly but unflattering with some pickups and some amp voicings. I actually preferred the sound of a very simple, low-tech 1x10" I built with a humble Faital 10FE200 driver.

I think the VL cabs with the proper HF drivers were quite a different design approach though.

Edited December 12, 2023 by Beer of the Bass

[Richard Jinman]

On 11/12/2023 at 18:59, TheRev said:

I actually preferred the 12" Monaco over the Monza, but that was probably because it sounded closer to my MAS 45.

 

If I had to replace my MAS cabs, I'd be looking at a LfSys Monaco or a couple of Barefaced 10s

I’ve exchanged a few emails with @stevie and he’s very kindly offered to loan me a cab. My choice is between the 10 and 12 inch driver’s .. if the size/weight of the cab is not a big issue would you go for the 12 inch Monaco for double bass? Thanks

[chyc]

I've heard the two side by side, and to my ears the 10" was better for pizzicato, but I'm not really a good yardstick as I was playing at the time. The lower frequencies in the 12" felt like they were resonating the bass, which is very easily solved with a bit of EQ, but it didn't seem to happen with the 10" Monza.

 

I think stevie would have been better placed (literally) to hear the cabinet. In any case the difference was subtle so if it were me, I'd actually have to factor size/weight/price into the consideration. Either one would be a very good fit in my opinion.

[Richard Jinman]

8 minutes ago, chyc said:

I've heard the two side by side, and to my ears the 10" was better for pizzicato, but I'm not really a good yardstick as I was playing at the time. The lower frequencies in the 12" felt like they were resonating the bass, which is very easily solved with a bit of EQ, but it didn't seem to happen with the 10" Monza.

 

I think stevie would have been better placed (literally) to hear the cabinet. In any case the difference was subtle so if it were me, I'd actually have to factor size/weight/price into the consideration. Either one would be a very good fit in my opinion.

That’s helpful thanks… just nice to talk to agrarian manufacturer who’s so keen to get you what you need!