Anyone else find Electronic Drums weird?

[Lfalex v1.1]

Did an audition last night. 

Nice guys. Good Drummer.

Except... he was using an expansive V Drums set into his own IEMs and out via one of those Bose line array/sub ensembles.

 

Maybe it was the patch he was using, maybe the EQ, but the kick sounded like a cannon and I ended up pushing my upper mids and cutting the bottom end to stop the ensuing mush.

 

Also,  all the drums look the same! So there was a major disconnect when this diminutive unit (in the "wrong" place!) started sounding like a floor tom!

 

Was there a smidge of latency vs a real kit? Maybe. 

 

I think the fact that the sound was emanating from the PA didn't help- it's very localised compared to a real kit. 

 

On the plus side,  it helps keep SPLs down,  so no ear protection needed, and I can still hear today. 

 

Has anyone else had similar experiences playing along with E drums?

[Old Horse Murphy]

I don't enjoy playing with electronic drums and had a bad experience where my monitor wasn't working and on a very large stage I had very little to go on other than watching the drummer's kick pedal and various arms flailing. It was like watching  someone trying to shoo away a wasp from a table in a beer garden. 
 

They always sound not particularly good to me either and weirdly can be very bassy and trebly at the same time. 

Edited December 7, 2023 by Old Horse Murphy

[Dad3353]

2 minutes ago, Lfalex v1.1 said:

... Also,  all the drums look the same! So there was a major disconnect when this diminutive unit (in the "wrong" place!) started sounding like a floor tom!...

 

It must have been a similar shock when the first players to use an electric bass turned up, leaving the Luddites drop-jawed when they realised that there was no 'bass fiddle'. The Stratocaster looked a little strange, too, when it started to replace the Dreadnought folk guitars everyone was using. It's just the wheel turning, s'all; it's all done with software on an iPad now, anyway, so even these new-fangled novelties are 'old hat'. One gets used to it all after a few generations. 

[Al Krow]

I love working with drummers who have electronic kits. Can pretty much choose any kit they want and can get the FoH very nicely balanced. 

[RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE]

Back in 1992 my first ever gig ; me , guitarist , vocals , keyboards ..which incorporated drum machines . 
I have no idea what he was using . I know  that there was an Akai sampler involved .  It was the era of many, many plugs  crammed into as many sockets as possible . That as just for him . I'll ask him more when I see him tomorrow over a couple of ciders .🍻

There were only a couple of hiccups but thankfully everything worked out fine . We did another 3 gigs with the same setup 🙀

 

An odd selection of covers , but we never did Phil Collins in a gorilla suit .

 

I like electronic drums . Playing in a band situation though , I'd say that you have to be 'precise' and not much room for human mistakes if that makes sense . Not reall ideal for mustang sally ..

[Woodinblack]

19 minutes ago, Lfalex v1.1 said:

Was there a smidge of latency vs a real kit? Maybe.

 

Only if there was something very wrong with the setup assuming a decent kit.

 

Yes, I have played with someone using an electronic kit before, it was great, would love to go back to it, but most drummers are worse luddites than bassists, or even guitarists.

[Lfalex v1.1]

38 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

I love working with drummers who have electronic kits. Can pretty much choose any kit they want and can get the FoH very nicely balanced. 

 

Ah, it'll be kit #3 (An old "regular" kit) for live work.. The E-kit is too extensive.

[Dad3353]

My first e-kit was simply for commodity, to have a practice kit to stay 'on form'.  I learned what was missing from my point of view, and upgraded, twice, until I got the e-kit that does what I want it to do. This involved adding a laptop and a screen, all in a flight case with an audio interface, so that it's a quality feed going to the PA, whilst I enjoy my perfect dosage in my wired iem's. We don't gig much nowadays, but I'd now rather take the e-kit out than dismember my acoustic kit, which stays in our micro-studio, semi-retired. We did a rare gig a few weeks ago, though, using the e-kit, and it worked perfectly. If I add up the cost of an e-kit such as mine, with the laptop, screen and software, it's still at least half, probably less still, than the cost of any equivalent acoustic kit, with decent cymbals. Far easier and quicker to set up, perfect volume at every gig, with the option of swapping drum sounds for every song, if required (I don't do this now, as I've set up a sound that works well with all our current repertoire, but I can dial in timpani, or steel drums, or even marimba if needed...). If it's only the 'look' that counts, count me out, as it's never been a concern; others may have a different opinion. Weird..? Maybe, to some, but, as a drummer, I'll take 'weird' if it means getting so many advantages.
There are a few things it does less well, such as brush swirls for light jazz numbers, or changing sticks mid-song for timpani mallets, but for most modern or classic pop-rock, it's all win, I say. One does need a decent PA, of course..! 

Edited December 7, 2023 by Dad3353

[Lfalex v1.1]

38 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

 

Only if there was something very wrong with the setup assuming a decent kit.

 

Yes, I have played with someone using an electronic kit before, it was great, would love to go back to it, but most drummers are worse luddites than bassists, or even guitarists.

 

He's certainly not a luddite.

But he did call my amplification "old"...

A slight criticism it was all too willing to correct. 

"Old but good" was obviously what he meant. 

[nilorius]

1 hour ago, Dad3353 said:

it's all done with software on an iPad now, anyway, so even these new-fangled novelties are 'old hat'. One gets used to it all after a few generations. 

This is absolute truth !!!

[TimR]

I suspect e-drummers need to learn the same thing we learned a long time ago. What sounds great in their bedroom or headphones doesn't sound good in a band environment. 

 

Too much reverb and a smiley EQ? 😆

[Boodang]

As well as playing bass, I also play an Ekit (Yamaha dtx6) in a band. It has it's pros and cons but overall, I and the band are loving it! I've been playing it for 18 months now and thoroughly enjoying the range of sounds you can get from it, especially as it's a covers band. It has, however, taken about 12 months to get a grip on it. We get a consistent sound foh but it's taken considerable editing (and trial and error) to get there. 

I particularly enjoy big gigs where you have what looks like a kids toy kit on stage but delivers a massive sound out front. And it's made low volume gigs and rehearsals a joy. In fact with iem's we're a monitor free zone. But you do have to get into editing (I have various eq'd presets for each kit depending on what type of PA it's going through) and as there's no acoustic volume (just like an electric guitar or bass!), monitoring is crucial (but with our xr18 desk that's an easy task).

One side effect of playing an Ekit I hadn't considered before is that there's no hiding place for your kick pedal... for all the audience to criticise your technique! 

[Lfalex v1.1]

10 minutes ago, TimR said:

I suspect e-drummers need to learn the same thing we learned a long time ago. What sounds great in their bedroom or headphones doesn't sound good in a band environment. 

 

Too much reverb and a smiley EQ? 😆

Much of the kit sounded fine. 

It was mostly the boomy and mid bass- heavy kick.  

That seemed to be occupying a lot of the sonic space that most of us would allocate to BG. That's why I pushed the upper mids (even) more,  to try to put some definition back in.

[martthebass]

The drummer in our band uses a high end E Kit.  I generally think it helps FOH in terms of adding some of the sounds required for our set list, but as we don't have the best on stage monitoring I generally find the sound doesn't inspire me on stage as much as an acoustic kit.  Also, we've sometimes found when we are playing some rallies/outdoor jobs where the PA etc is provided, that less experienced soundmen can really screw up.  Like Nick (Old Horse), at a rally earlier this year one soundman managed to turn off the on stage monitoring of the E Kit and, despite gesticulating frantically he didn't sort the problem until about 4 songs into the set.  God knows how we got through that one....

[TimR]

54 minutes ago, Lfalex v1.1 said:

Much of the kit sounded fine. 

It was mostly the boomy and mid bass- heavy kick.  

That seemed to be occupying a lot of the sonic space that most of us would allocate to BG. That's why I pushed the upper mids (even) more,  to try to put some definition back in.

 

Yes. That's where volume wars start. Bass drum isn't bass. 

[Owen]

3 hours ago, Lfalex v1.1 said:

On the plus side,  it helps keep SPLs down,  so no ear protection needed, and I can still hear today. 

This. Just this. This is everything. 

[meterman]

I have an electronic kit, a reasonably high-end Roland one. I only bought it to make doing remote session work easier.

 

With samples I can choose to make it sound like a 1950s Gretsch kit, a 60’s Ludwig kit, an 80’s Yamaha kit or whatever my clients need. The preset kits in the module are not to my taste but they are modifiable in terms of tuning, muffling, room sound etc. 
 

There’s also loads of classic Roland 808 sounds, 707, CR78 etc, which I love. 
 

I doubt I’d gig with it though. I think it looks daft 😂 But it is very handy to have. 

[Shaggy]

I can remember the OP question first being asked circa 1977 when the first synth drums cane in.......

Personally all of my experiences with electronic drum kits have been positive for the excellent reasons given above; where all members of the band are fully electric it makes mixing at any sound level so much easier.   After a solid 46 years of gigging with mainly acoustic kits I’m sure my hearing has suffered. 🙁

[uk_lefty]

My drummer went to Roland V drums a while back. Long story short, with a LOT of work and patience it can sound and look perfectly like a "proper" kit. The cymbals weren't quite right so he's got the real cymbals back but the electric kit. He spent a lot of time reading through troubleshooting stuff on the Roland forum and making adjustments to cables and stuff. The sound coming from the PA was odd until we got a sub and stuck that central-ish behind us and that made a big difference. 

[Downunderwonder]

4 hours ago, Lfalex v1.1 said:

was mostly the boomy and mid bass- heavy kick.  

That seemed to be occupying a lot of the sonic space that most of us would allocate to BG

FWIW I have had the same issue with acoustic kick when amped with a subwoofer. Maybe he modeled that one.

[Lfalex v1.1]

50 minutes ago, uk_lefty said:

 The sound coming from the PA was odd until we got a sub and stuck that central-ish behind us and that made a big difference. 

 

I was standing well off-axis, not wishing to be right in front of the drummer (force of habit!)

Maybe I'll try and get more in the firing line of the PA next time. 

Edited December 7, 2023 by Lfalex v1.1
Auto correct

[tony_m]

2 hours ago, uk_lefty said:

My drummer went to Roland V drums a while back. Long story short, with a LOT of work and patience it can sound and look perfectly like a "proper" kit. The cymbals weren't quite right so he's got the real cymbals back but the electric kit. He spent a lot of time reading through troubleshooting stuff on the Roland forum and making adjustments to cables and stuff. The sound coming from the PA was odd until we got a sub and stuck that central-ish behind us and that made a big difference. 

 

Similar story here. It's taken our drummer ages and lots of swearing, fiddling with settings, and swapping leads etc. but he's finally happy (well, as happy as he ever gets anyway... ) with his V-drums. He's got a "basic" kit stored which suits most of what we do, plus a couple of others which he switches to for the odd song here and there (slightly different snare sound on one, slightly different kick drum on the other), and has even managed to get the cymbals sounding like proper cymbals.

 

2 hours ago, Lfalex v1.1 said:

 

I was standing well off-axis, not wishing to be right in front of the drummer (force of habit!)

Maybe I'll try and get more in the firing line of the PA next time. 

 

The final key component for our guy (and me tbh) was the addition of an Alesis Strike 12 drum amp which we set up on the far side of the kit from me - suddenly he and I can both hear the drums clearly but at a sensible volume, and the whole thing just sounds and feels right.

[Boodang]

I've never been a fan of bass drums sounding like an explosion and taking up all the sonic space and the Ekit has really given me control over the kick sound. I'm currently using layered sampling to get the best of both worlds and use a combination of an 18 and 22. And if the PA is not up to it, the yamaha has a 'compressed' sounding vinyl kit and I use the BD from that as it's very mid eq'd.

Also enjoying the variety of snare drums which is probably the thing i change most during a set to suit the song.

[Baloney Balderdash]

By far most of the more recent music I have created even utilize programmed drums and percussion, that is there isn't even any drummer or physically played samples involved at any point, just bars plotted in in a midi grid that I play to through headphones. 

 

So I guess my answer is no.

 

I do however still enjoy playing with a real drummer with a real acoustic drum kit. 

 

Also your problem sounds more a case of your drummer choosing the wrong drum samples (well, wrong for you at least), rather than being an inherent issue with electronic drums as such.

 

It is totally possible with a proper electronic drum kit and playing, or proper programming for that matter, using the right drum samples, to have electronic drums sound pretty much indistinguishable from the real thing, if that is what one really wishes to do. 

 

Personally though I most often find it way more interesting to actually make use of the alternative possibilities, options and sounds, electronic drums/drum samples actually offers you/allow for.

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[BigRedX]

There is also the problem of both the band and the audience listening with their eyes when it comes for electronic drums.

 

I've mentioned this before but it bears repeating. I band I used to be in had over it's lifetime several different drummers as well as a couple of periods where the drums were supplied from programmed samples and loops. The line-up of the band our audience enjoyed the most was the one where the drummer had what looked like a normal drum kit, except the shells were filled with damping material and the heads fitted with bugs to allow him to trigger EXACTLY THE SAME SAMPLES that the other drummers with more obvious looking electronic kits had done. He was also by far the most metronomic of all our drummers based on his MIDI output.