Compression

[YouMa]

Am i cheating by relying on compression i dont use it that often but have started messing with it a lot lately? Does anyone else have any views on this.Also did Jamerson and other early pioneers rely on any effects or outboard stuff apart from there amps and fingers,surely they must have just wanted the sound to be good and easy to play in order to just get the job done when they performed as paid artists,so i would imagine they would have grabbed anything that was about,i know fuzz and stuff was about early on but was there any bass pedals that affected the dynamics of the sound around at this time.

[The Funk]

Valves -> natural compression.

[YouMa]

[quote name='The Funk' post='484410' date='May 10 2009, 04:31 PM']Valves -> natural compression.[/quote]


Ive had a shot on a portaflex before though and its not like having a compression pedal on,does smooth you out a bit though,less brittle.

[MacDaddy]

It's an old argument, one where effects pedals are called talent boosters. Well let's see you get a nice chorused sound with a touch of delay from your fingers, is what I used to say.

Anyway compression rules! Nice big phat bass mmmm...

[YouMa]

[quote name='MacDaddy' post='484413' date='May 10 2009, 04:35 PM']It's an old argument, one where effects pedals are called talent boosters. Well let's see you get a nice chorused sound with a touch of delay from your fingers, is what I used to say.

Anyway compression rules! Nice big phat bass mmmm... [/quote]


To be honest i have stopped using delay and chorus and have just got into either envelope filter or straight jazz bass i find most effects thin me out or suck tone.

[Thunderthumbs]

Effects....oooh......

[Oscar South]

This is the most ridiculous argument in music.

Do you see professional tennis players using classic style wooden rackets?
Do you see office workers using typewriters?
Do you see the military sending out spitfires to fight aeriel battles?
Do you see mathematicians working out complex equations on an abacus?

You use the best tools available for your trade, and what constitutes the best is an entirely subjective judgement.

[YouMa]

[quote name='Oscar South' post='484430' date='May 10 2009, 04:57 PM']This is the most ridiculous argument in music.

Do you see professional tennis players using classic style wooden rackets?
Do you see office workers using typewriters?
Do you see the military sending out spitfires to fight aeriel battles?
Do you see mathematicians working out complex equations on an abacus?

You use the best tools available for your trade, and what constitutes the best is an entirely subjective judgement.[/quote]

Good,at least i know im not cheating now.

[The Funk]

[quote name='Oscar South' post='484430' date='May 10 2009, 05:57 PM']You use the best tools available for your trade, and what constitutes the best is an entirely subjective judgement.[/quote]

Agreed.

I'm still not sure what the concern was about using a compressor. On those classic records, the engineers would have used expensive studio compressors and limiters.

[YouMa]

Would love to hear jamerson raw.Shame no bootlegs of practice are around.

[tombboy]

During recent gigs I have had to deal with a new hand injury due to 'digging in' far too much to get my sound. Hand goes numb and swells up!! Bought a compressor and backed off on the force.... hand is fine and my sound is spot on.

+1 for compressors, I say.

[silverfoxnik]

It's probably true that almost all producers and engineers will compress a bass signal when recording it or when mixing it, so if it makes sense to use compression then, why not at at other times too...?

[allighatt0r]

Come on guys, what sort of compressors are we talking about? built into an amp? or a little stomp box? any recommendations?

Edited May 10, 2009 by allighatt0r

[WinterMute]

I'll limit a bassist on the recording phase, just to stop clipping, but otherwise will attempt to reproduce the sound he already has (unless it's crap).

If the player has no dynamic control, I'll suggest a compressor on his rig, I'll use a dbx 160 usually, if he has a preferred unit, I'll play with that a little, again it;s what the guy sounds like that's important.

Compressors in the mix are an entirely different proposition, often they are employed to "set" the instrument into the mix, not to alter the characteristic of the sound, however a Urei 1176 or a Joe Meek Opto will give a good warmth to the sound. Rupert Neve's 9098 compressor by AMEK is my weapon of choice for hardware, followd by an LA 2A or a Focusrite RED5.

Plug-ins can be a pain, but the Sony Oxford Comp/lim is very good, as is the standard Digi Comp/lim 3, Guitar rig and Digi'd 13 are good for a bit of tine shaping too.

I used to use the 160 live, it's essentially invisible, there a decent opto-compressor in the Line 6 110, which I use lightly now.

What compression really does is makes you lazy in the observance of your dynamic control, and it robs you of the ability to use volume as expression. Now, if your in a balls to the wall metal band, that's irrelevant, and a compressor is essential for a skull crushing sound, if you're a slapper compression makes your technique a little more sloppy, as all those triplets will be audible regardless of whether you catch them.

If your a jazzer, I'd think you'd want to be in control or every nuance of your playing, and automating the volume would be limiting your expression. I'm no jazzer though, and many jazz players I've recorded will compress at amp or pedal board.

My name is Richard, I play rock, I use a compressor...

[stu_g]

ive used my old boss cs-2 compressor for years wouldnt be without it

[bassbloke]

I stopped using a compressor because I felt it was robbing me of a lot of dynamics. I wouldn't start accusing other players of cheating though.

[xgsjx]

I've never used a compressor in a live situation.
I tried my guitarists Boss CS2 & all I found it doing was making the background noise that couldn't be heard, audiable.
Putting it before my Moog LPF meant I had no control over the dynamics to control the CV Envelope out & when I put it at the end of the chain it just increased any noise tenfold. I would like to try a different compressor just to see if it's any better but after thinking about what compressor to get & then trying the CS2, it's put me off.

[Paul_C]

[quote name='YouMa' post='484499' date='May 10 2009, 07:06 PM']Would love to hear jamerson raw.Shame no bootlegs of practice are around.[/quote]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYsVDuM5Lcs"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYsVDuM5Lcs[/url]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCrO3iVWZE8"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCrO3iVWZE8[/url]

[url="http://www.ricksuchow.com/press-group-112.html"]http://www.ricksuchow.com/press-group-112.html[/url]

[Golchen]

I never really get what a compressor is for?? It sounds like it will magically improve my playing and if so I NEED one now!

[YouMa]

[quote name='Paul_C' post='484602' date='May 10 2009, 09:02 PM'][url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYsVDuM5Lcs"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYsVDuM5Lcs[/url]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCrO3iVWZE8"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCrO3iVWZE8[/url]

[url="http://www.ricksuchow.com/press-group-112.html"]http://www.ricksuchow.com/press-group-112.html[/url][/quote]
Heard these mate its just lifted from records,hardly studio outakes cheers anyway.

[WinterMute]

[quote name='Golchen' post='484638' date='May 10 2009, 09:37 PM']I never really get what a compressor is for?? It sounds like it will magically improve my playing and if so I NEED one now![/quote]

A compressor makes loud bits quieter and quiet bits louder, essentially compressing the dynamic range, or the difference between said loud and quiet bits.

Once the loud bits are closer in volume to the quiet bits, you turn everything up (or down, natch...) to get the over all level.

Compressors give an evened out loudness to a performance, so that despite how you play, everyone hears everything at a more even level.

Used to extreme, compressors also have a tonal shaping aspect.

[gafbass02]

I hate playing without, I find my old boss improves my tone and my control and crucially the response of the bass, where goes my bass goes my compressor pedals ( I gave two boss cs3's one in each pedal board, both have a sticker on saying 'talent booster!, so true though!)

[leschirons]

[quote name='allighatt0r' post='484546' date='May 10 2009, 07:09 PM']Come on guys, what sort of compressors are we talking about? built into an amp? or a little stomp box? any recommendations?[/quote]

I use an old Dod guitar compressor stomp box. (Orange in colour) Sounds great and use it all the time. Ultimate slap tone tool.

[TimR]

I was looking at the Ashdown Dual band compressor the other day. Sounded good and less than £50. There has been some discussion on it here before, I assume Ashdown have fixed the old issues as the one I played was fine.

[51m0n]

[quote name='WinterMute' post='484564' date='May 10 2009, 08:26 PM']I'll limit a bassist on the recording phase, just to stop clipping, but otherwise will attempt to reproduce the sound he already has (unless it's crap).

If the player has no dynamic control, I'll suggest a compressor on his rig, I'll use a dbx 160 usually, if he has a preferred unit, I'll play with that a little, again it;s what the guy sounds like that's important.

Compressors in the mix are an entirely different proposition, often they are employed to "set" the instrument into the mix, not to alter the characteristic of the sound, however a Urei 1176 or a Joe Meek Opto will give a good warmth to the sound. Rupert Neve's 9098 compressor by AMEK is my weapon of choice for hardware, followd by an LA 2A or a Focusrite RED5.

Plug-ins can be a pain, but the Sony Oxford Comp/lim is very good, as is the standard Digi Comp/lim 3, Guitar rig and Digi'd 13 are good for a bit of tine shaping too.

I used to use the 160 live, it's essentially invisible, there a decent opto-compressor in the Line 6 110, which I use lightly now.

[b]What compression really does is makes you lazy in the observance of your dynamic control, and it robs you of the ability to use volume as expression[/b]. Now, if your in a balls to the wall metal band, that's irrelevant, and a compressor is essential for a skull crushing sound, if you're a slapper compression makes your technique a little more sloppy, as all those triplets will be audible regardless of whether you catch them.

If your a jazzer, I'd think you'd want to be in control or every nuance of your playing, and automating the volume would be limiting your expression. I'm no jazzer though, and many jazz players I've recorded will compress at amp or pedal board.

My name is Richard, I play rock, I use a compressor... [/quote]


Other than the highlighted statement I think this is a great post.

Unless you set a compressor to an unbelievable extreme then the statement:-

[b]What compression really does is makes you lazy in the observance of your dynamic control, and it robs you of the ability to use volume as expression[/b]

is hogwash IMO & IME both live and in the studio. You are saying here that no matter how light the touch a player could not make the result quieter if a compressor was on.

That is not the case.

With sensible/normal compression settings on a bass (even for fairly obvious or heavy compression) the player still has the ability to back off the volume from their fingers to below the threshold that the comp is set at. Since no one ever sets a threshold at -infinity db. It just is not done.

Now anywhere below that threshold dynamic control is as if there were no compressor.

Up to that threshold you have to back off by the ratio setting more than otherwise.

In reality with any ratio I've ever used up to about 10:1 this is not even hard to do. It just takes a couple of minutes of playing around to find the required amount of gentleness to get the effect you are after.

So you can in fact play with dynamics when you have a comp engaged, especially if its set to do some sensible levelling.

Also the perceived loudness of a sound is not just as a result of its volume, but also its envelope and timbre and while a compressor has an effect on both, playing more gently will still have a huge effect on both even with a comp engaged.

IMO & IME both live and in a studio.