String tensions

[JoeEvans]

Do strings of the same gauge but different makes and types have much difference in string tension? I'm trying to get the truss rod right but the neck moved more than I expected when I changed the strings. It's a very skinny neck, mind...

[OliverBlackman]

Yes, tension can vary a lot

[MrDaveTheBass]

Yes! Your neck may also be affected by ambient heat and humidity. I usually have to adjust the truss rods of my skinny-necked EBMM Sterlings twice a year when the seasons change.

 

Remember: Only adjust the truss rod by a quarter of a turn and then leave it for 24 hours to settle. Turn the truss rod clockwise to tighten it and lower the action, or anticlockwise to loosen it and raise the action. 

[Mykesbass]

d'addario website has a useful chart of all their string tensions showing that it is not entirely down to gauge.

[Downunderwonder]

After the gauge you have to know the density, to determine mass per unit length, then string length and tension determines pitch of fundamental.

 

Also end conditions, but these are pretty much the same for all strings. It's an odd combo of fixed and free mode. They aren't really free and they aren't really fixed either. I think they usually bodge it and consider the end to be free some distance away from the nut and bridge. Otherwise you would have to consider the stiffness in the string at the ends. 

Edited December 20, 2023 by Downunderwonder
Typo

[BigRedX]

2 hours ago, Mykesbass said:

d'addario website has a useful chart of all their string tensions showing that it is not entirely down to gauge.

 

But is only accurate for D'Addario strings.

[Mykesbass]

2 hours ago, BigRedX said:

 

But is only accurate for D'Addario strings.

I was just illustrating the fact that it is not just gauge that changes tension.

[Supernaut]

It's amazing how many players believe that going from Thomastik flats to heavy gauge drop tuning rounds won't have much effect on the neck. 
 

I find even switching brands, still the same gauge, will require a truss rod tweak. 

[Munurmunuh]

Rotosound Daddario and GHS all publish plentiful figures. I've noticed that for rounds, the Daddarios are lower in actual tension than the GHS and Rotosound at the same gauge. However, that lower actual tension doesn't seem to transfer to the feel of the strings, which seem just as stiff.

[BigRedX]

6 minutes ago, Munurmunuh said:

Rotosound Daddario and GHS all publish plentiful figures. I've noticed that for rounds, the Daddarios are lower in actual tension than the GHS and Rotosound at the same gauge. However, that lower actual tension doesn't seem to transfer to the feel of the strings, which seem just as stiff.

 

"Stiffness" and "tension" are not the same thing. What we should really be measuring is "compliance".

[ossyrocks]

9 hours ago, Supernaut said:

It's amazing how many players believe that going from Thomastik flats to heavy gauge drop tuning rounds won't have much effect on the neck. 
 

I find even switching brands, still the same gauge, will require a truss rod tweak. 

Yep. Even switching  between Thomastik and LaBella Low tension flats needs a tweak on my basses. 

[MrDaveTheBass]

8 hours ago, BigRedX said:

 

"Stiffness" and "tension" are not the same thing. What we should really be measuring is "compliance".

Sounds like something my dominatrix was trying to teach me! 😉

[asingardenof]

18 hours ago, BigRedX said:

 

"Stiffness" and "tension" are not the same thing. What we should really be measuring is "compliance".

And probably trying to explain what the relationship is between those properties

[Downunderwonder]

Gauge isn't really part of the equation. Only because we are familiar with gauge and density is mostly fairly consistent do we consider gauge to be the variable.

[Burns-bass]

Perhaps let’s take a step back and address the question instead of transforming this into incomprehensible techno-babble.

 

The answer to your original question is: yes.

 

There are also environmental factors (heat, humidity, etc) that can affect the neck.

 

The advice to make minor adjustments to the truss rod is a good one. Also be sure to adjust the saddle height too if changing neck relief.

 

A truss rod is a very effective but pretty crude tool. Don’t be afraid to experiment with it, as marking minor adjustments won’t break it. Always use the correct tool or you could damage the truss rod adjuster which is really annoying!

 

I never felt the need to let things “settle”. It’s a rod of metal in a wood neck, not an antique violin. Don’t overthink it. It’s very simple.

[JoeEvans]

Thanks for this guys, it's just something I haven't really considered before. As I say, the bass in question (Ibanez Axstar) has an especially skinny neck and it seems to move more per tweak of the truss rod than other basses I've fiddled with, and to be more sensitive to changes in string type than other basses as well.

[MrDaveTheBass]

1 hour ago, Burns-bass said:

I never felt the need to let things “settle”. It’s a rod of metal in a wood neck, not an antique violin. Don’t overthink it. It’s very simple.

This is generally true. I have been deliberately over cautious with my advice. My current basses' necks normally move immediately after adjusting the truss rod. However, I have had guitars and basses that take a while to move after adjusting them. I have also heard stories of newbies destroying necks by piling on the turns when nothing happens immediately. 

[Burns-bass]

36 minutes ago, MrDaveTheBass said:

This is generally true. I have been deliberately over cautious with my advice. My current basses' necks normally move immediately after adjusting the truss rod. However, I have had guitars and basses that take a while to move after adjusting them. I have also heard stories of newbies destroying necks by piling on the turns when nothing happens immediately. 

Absolutely agree. If you’re nervous, exercise caution! 
 

As with all woodwork, as long as you approach things slowly and with care you won’t cause any damage.

[Baloney Balderdash]

Short answer is "yes".

 

And might I add, in some cases even substantially.

 

But whether or not that'll equates to the relief of the neck changing to an extend where re-tweaking the truss rod will be necessary will depend on how stable the neck is, as in how sensitive is it to environmental as well as tension changes.

 

For instance I just recently tunes up all the strings on my main, which has the most stable neck I ever had on any guitar or bass, 1 half step, which equals a change in tension of just about 2.5 lbs on an average per strings, or just about 10 lbs (~4.5kg) in total, but the relief practically didn't change. 

 

Edited December 21, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[Lfalex v1.1]

23 hours ago, BigRedX said:

 

"Stiffness" and "tension" are not the same thing. What we should really be measuring is "compliance".

 

And that is altered by all sorts of weird variables (In my experience)