Simple-to-use gigging multi-effects pedal?

[Pirellithecat]

I realise that this topic has probably been done to death ..... but ....... I'd like a "pedal" to provide a number of "scenes" for live gigging use.   Covers band so lots of different styles (from Creedence Clearwater to Ghost, via Miley Cyrus) and no time between songs to fiddle/reset pedal settings.  
Don't want to scroll through lots of options, just want a simple device to allow a couple of different EQ's (two basses so be great to be able to swap without having to tinker), Octave, Chorus, Compression, Drive,  Synth/organ plus a Tuner (muted signal when using) which can be combined, where necessary, to provide a tailored sound specific to a particular songs.  A volume pedal would be nice too.  Not too fussed about dozens of different amp/cab sims, but would be nice to use for practice so Aux in, Headphones out, plus a D.I. 
I've had a go on my son's Line 6 Pod Go, but it's far too complex for me and provides far more than I need.    Thought a HX Stomp or maybe the Zoom B6n might do the trick but even they seem way over-specced for my rudimentary needs. Just need a set of buttons on the floor, maybe displaying the name of the "Scene".

Is this unrealistic or am I just being lazy?? 
 

[Frank Blank]

2 minutes ago, Pirellithecat said:

Is this unrealistic or am I just being lazy?? 

 

I realise the HX Stomp has much more than you need but it is a very good option that'll do exactly what you are after and there is also huge potential in it should you need it in the future. I had 'scenes' for each song that I simply moved through as per the set. I used a fraction of it's spec, slight variations in EQ, and amp models, very subtle effects here and there. What I'm saying is don't rule it out because it can do loads of things you don't currently need when it will do exactly what you want now extremely well. Also it is great fun to just muck about with and you have lots of users/experts on here who are willing to help out when/if you get stuck with something.

[MichaelDean]

A device in the Helix family or the Zoom B6 would probably be perfect for you once you've got your head around it. But if you want something to work as you've described, you do need to spend the time getting your head around it and programming the patches to meet your needs. Even if the devices are overspecced, you can just use it for what you want to use it for. It doesn't matter that they can also do XYZ as long as it does what you want it to do at a price that you are comfortable with.

 

You might find it easier at first to also start creating your patches using a computer. That can provide a clearer interface to explore the device. I would also say that it is worthwhile getting to grips with using the thing on the fly. If you're at band practice and want to find a new sound for a song that someone has suggested, that can then be done with minimal hassle. Once they're created, it's a thing of wonder. You rock up to a gig knowing it's all working and the knobs of your pedals haven't been twiddled by gremlins. It is just the initial learning curve that you need to get over.

 

Also, don't get too bogged down in the presets. Just start with a blank patch and focus on one effect at a time. OK, you want some compression, do that first. Scroll through the compressors and find one that works for you. Repeat with the next effect and build your chain. It doesn't have to be complicated if you break it down, but it will take longer than dedicated effects as you have lots of options.

 

I love my GX-100. I'd suggest it, but it doesn't do synths (at all) or octaves well, but it does suit my needs. I've recently used it as a reamping box (sending the signal to my head, which I then DI'd back into the computer and put a virtual cab on), which got me out of having to spend more money on something that would be used once or twice and then put in a cupboard. I never thought about it performing that function when I bought it, but I'm very grateful it was there as an option when I did need it.

[Pirellithecat]

Great response.  Many thanks 👍

[SumOne]

If the Pod Go is too complex for you then the Stomp will be too (it has more going on with fewer hardware controls). But a couple of hours with either of them should be enough to understand them to set up the patches you want and just be able to scroll between them. 

 

I'm interested in the Mooer Prime P2 . I'm not sure I'd gig with it, but for home practice and band practice it seems decent: Pocket sized (and can work for 5hrs from it's internal rechargable battery), Tuner, drum machine/metronome, looper, bluetooth in and headphone out, lots of effects, 80 presets, touchscreen to go between presets, or can use a phone app for control and more in-depth editing. I'm mostly considering it as I carry a big flightcase with pedalboard/pedals/power supply to practice sessions and all it usually gets used for it tuner/mute, drive, EQ (although can do that on the Amp)....seems overkill when the Mooer would fit in my pocket and do very similar. For gigs I do like the tough/simple/stompable/what you see is what you get of individual Boss pedals though.

 

 

[stewblack]

Zoom  B6 or the B2 Four. So simple to use, all the bass sounds you could ever need.

No need for computers, you can do it all on the pedal 

[SamIAm]

From my fiddlings with various multi-fx systems, I offer the following broad (and probably inaccurate for some units) generalisations to consider (Of course you may be aware of all of this already!).

 

I would say that most (all?) units support patches (some call them presets or pedalboards).

A patch on a multi-fx unit defines a combination of things:

• Which effects are in the chain.
• The ordering of these effects in the chain.
• The settings of each effect (on/off, gain, mix, etc).

Once you have selected a patch, most units will let you tweak the settings on each effect using an on device knob (or via a touchscreen), once you've dialed in a sound you like can save it away in the patch.

 

You can think of a patch as a physical pedalboard, with the pedals you want on it, in the order you want them in and the settings you want for each.  Switching a patch is like grabbing a different pedal board from a shelf and replacing the one you are using (But is much quicker and less bulky lol).

 

Units provide the ability to change from one patch to another using a footswitch (Patch Mode), the units with few (3 or less) footswitches usually only let you go through step through them sequentially.  If you have a lot of patches (eg one for each song) this can be a pain.

 

You mention Octave, Chorus, Compression, Drive,  Synth ...  do you want to be able to toggle on/off individual effects in a patch?  Perhaps wanting to only activate the octave for the chorus of the song?  You can often sometimes assign a footswitch to do this (Stompbox mode), but unless you have a lot of footswitches ... (consider a physical pedalboard that usually has at least one footswitch for each pedal).  For units with a lot of footswitches, this can usually be done, for others external footswitches might be required.

 

Some units support snapshots. Snapshots are sort of like variations of a patch.  With a patch loaded, you can tweak settings for each effect (including on/off) and save it as a Snapshot.  Think of a snapshot as a photograph of a physical pedalboard, showing the knob positions and active/bypass state of each pedal; changing a snapshot is like very (very!) quickly reaching down and tweaking all the things you want to tweak.  For units with SnapShots, a similar approach is needed to select them as for patches, stepping through them sequentially or assigning a footswitch to each.

 

For me, I dislike the physical size, cost and relative inflexability of a physical pedalboard ... but it comes with easy/simple access to all of the tweakable things.  I like the ability of the multi-fx to let me select from loads and loads of different variations to find the ones I like and then store/recall them ... but to even approach the 'stompability' of a physical board I've found I need to add multiple external footswitches.  And individual tweakings are burried away under menus.

 

My current pedalboard uses a MOD Dwarf (Think HX Stomp/GT-100 Core on speed) but I am about to replace the 4 switch MVAVE with an MC-6 to try to allow some more stompability (And to display footswitch info that the MVAVE does not have).

 

I've spent a lot of time and effort in coming up with a sound I like (and my layout is not complex ... compressor/octave/ambience/fuzz), but I am still a toddler.

 

How few 'Scenes' (Patches) can you get away with?

From an effort perspective, think of how much time/effort it would take you (If money was not a problem) to set-up and tweak a physical pedalboard for each 'Scene'.

 

Not an answer to your question I fear but I hope it helps a bit.  I'd say consider having a really concerted effort to configure the pod go (using a PC can make it easier) to see if you can get what you want.

 

S'manth x

 

 

 

[Greg Edwards69]

It's a bit dated, but sounds like the old Boss ME-50b might suit you more than the current generation of digital multi-fx.

[jonnybass]

Zoom b6 I use it exactly for this.  I have scenes with vintage amps, modern amps. effects and no effects, built in tuner that mutes when it tunes, DI out, two inputs with level controls. Really easy to use in a gig scenario like you described.

 

Jonny

[Skybone]

I know you said that the POD Go seems a bit too complex, but it really isn't that hard to get your head around, especially if you use the POD Go Edit.

 

Been using mine for a few years now, and absolutely love the sounds I get from it.

[Pirellithecat]

Thanks for all the comments!  

I guess I am rather  lazy, but the App/PC interface on the Mod Dwarf looks really intuitively easy to use - and would be great for setting up sounds for particular tracks.  S'manth - thanks for the pointer.  Thinking about it, I do use different effects in different parts of the same song - usually it's the intro or chords to fill out parts in "quieter" sections, and it would be great to be able to continue to do this without adding a pedal.   I guess one could have different scenes for different sections ????? But I wonder about the ease of finding them in the heat of the moment......   Do other  units have a similar "pictogram" style user interface on the PC/app??      

[SamIAm]

HX Edit is the computer based software for configuring Helix devices, this is an old video but gives a good idea of how it works.  I believe you can download it for free and use it with the Pod you have access to. Seems there is Pod Go Edit for those units.

The Boss GT-1000 Core has their Tone Editor

And for Zoom devices they have GuitarLab, there is also really good free third party app called ToneLib Zoom

 

For the Dwarf, you can download a desktop Dwarf app that emulates a Dwarf on Windows/Mac/Linux (It is currently in beta) but gives you a chance to really have a play.

https://forum.mod.audio/t/introducing-the-mod-app-for-desktops-beta-release/10495/134

 

S'manth x

Edited December 21, 2023 by Smanth

[Pirellithecat]

Ta S'manth .... bit of homework there then ..... 😂

[Al Krow]

Why not kick off with something like the Zoom B1-4? Very capable and ridiculously good value.

[funkydoug]

@Smanth what’s the latency like on the dwarf? I’ve convinced myself that anything about about 5ms is too much. In practice, can you detect/feel any latency when playing live?

 

im not talking about recording, just the latency of the pedal itself. Thanks

[SamIAm]

31 minutes ago, Pirellithecat said:

Thanks for all the comments!  

I guess I am rather  lazy, but the App/PC interface on the Mod Dwarf looks really intuitively easy to use - and would be great for setting up sounds for particular tracks.  S'manth - thanks for the pointer.  Thinking about it, I do use different effects in different parts of the same song - usually it's the intro or chords to fill out parts in "quieter" sections, and it would be great to be able to continue to do this without adding a pedal.   I guess one could have different scenes for different sections ????? But I wonder about the ease of finding them in the heat of the moment......   Do other  units have a similar "pictogram" style user interface on the PC/app??      

The MOD UI is amazing, however ... unlike most other units you cannot changed pedalboard layouts on the Dwarf itself, you have to use a web browser ... this is a feature that many users are asking for.

 

For changing sounds during different sections of a song, I would say a SnapShot capability is ideal.  If you have enough footswitches (either on the unit or via a midi addon footswitch unit) you could assign a footswitch to each SnapShot.

For example, if you end up with 5 different scenes (Pop, Rock, Funk, Etc), you could select the appropriate patch between songs (Selecting from a list at this point is doable).  Tweak a patch for the intro, save as snapshot 1, tweak it differently for the verse, save as snapshot 2, chorus as snapshot 3.  Then one your footswitches always use the same one to call up snapshot 1, this will load the snapshot for the current patch and you can label it as the Intro button, etc, etc.  

 

S'manth x

[funkydoug]

As for the idea of an analogue-like multi FX, I’d love to try an ME90 on bass and wish Boss would make an ME90b, or similar.

 

My other shouts would be zoom g11, or a matching set of analogue pedals like the Aguilar or EBS range. Thats not quite the same thing but it’s what I’ve done while I wait for Boss to release something bass compatible like an ME90b.

Edited December 21, 2023 by funkydoug

[SamIAm]

17 minutes ago, Pirellithecat said:

Ta S'manth .... bit of homework there then ..... 😂

Fraid so, but then I suspect many folks spend loadsa (far too much) time playing with pedals and f/x.

 

S'manth x

Edited December 21, 2023 by Smanth

[SamIAm]

2 minutes ago, funkydoug said:

@Smanth what’s the latency like on the dwarf? I’ve convinced myself that anything about about 5ms is too much. In practice, can you detect/feel any latency when playing live?

 

im not talking about recording, just the latency of the pedal itself. Thanks

It varies.

As with any digital system, there is a finite time that it takes to convert the analog input to digital on the way in and then vice versa.  I believe on the Dwarf this comes in around 8ms without any f/x in the chain.  Add in some heavy processing f/x and it'll go up, tho for some f/x it matters more (Octave) and for others less (reverb).

The layout of the f/x patch can make a difference (The Dwarf has multi-chain capability).

I do not notice the lag, however I am not the most demanding player and my patchs tend to be fairly simple, the Dwarf really wins for me in that I can play our backing tracks from it and even midi based drummer in a box.

 

You might ask about latency in the MOD thread to get the views of other users.

 

S'manth x

[tauzero]

There's a way of reducing latency on the MOD Dwarf which employs the parallel processing capability of the unit - basically a signal goes into one effect (or chain of effects), the processing of which is carried out by one processor, then passed via something called Portal to the next effect (or chain of effects) which is processed by a second processor, so the overall latency, instead of being the sum of all the latencies in the chain, is just the greater of the two latencies on the signal chain plus a small overhead (I'm not sure if it's referred to as the critical path, but if you've ever played with Gantt charts, it's the critical path equivalent).

 

https://forum.mod.audio/t/introducing-portal/9329

[funkydoug]

Thanks for the latency info, much appreciated.

[Pirellithecat]

Still researching!!  
Had a look at the Zoom B1 4, and waded through the info on most of the devices mentioned. 

Most demos spend lots of time going through all the different settings, how to create patches/scenes etc.   
However, no real demonstrations of using the  pedals in a practical gigging situation.  

I suspect I need the maximum number of foot switches so that I can avoid having to scroll through settings/menus whilst playing live.   i.e. a "Stomp Version". 
So it's a limited number of specific effects and a limited number of "scenes". I'm a little concerned about scrolling through menus to get to the correct scene between songs/verse/chorus/intro/outro during a gig. 

I've asked my son to bring his Pod Go up for Christmas as this has a  high number of footswitches.   I'll have another go with this and report back.

Thanks for all the info - a little project to pursue whilst Strictly Come Dancing (insert own pet hate here .....) distracts the rest of the family over the Christmas break!   

HoHoHo!   

Edited December 22, 2023 by Pirellithecat

[Franticsmurf]

17 hours ago, Pirellithecat said:

Thanks for all the comments!  

I guess I am rather  lazy, but the App/PC interface on the Mod Dwarf looks really intuitively easy to use - and would be great for setting up sounds for particular tracks.  S'manth - thanks for the pointer.  Thinking about it, I do use different effects in different parts of the same song - usually it's the intro or chords to fill out parts in "quieter" sections, and it would be great to be able to continue to do this without adding a pedal.   I guess one could have different scenes for different sections ????? But I wonder about the ease of finding them in the heat of the moment......   Do other  units have a similar "pictogram" style user interface on the PC/app??      

I've used the Zoom Ms60b and the Zoom B1four but I was finding that for songs where I wanted to change/add/remove an effect mid song it was a faff as I had to know the precise order of songs so that I could set the sequential order of effects to match. But any glitch ("we're dropping xxx and going straight to yyy") was a potential problem.

 

I have just started using a Zoom B6 and this has four patch selection foot switches (as described above a patch is a set of effects including amp, cab and IR settings). The four patches form a bank. You could set up a bank for a song and then have four options within that song - for example 1= your standard tone, 2= 1+added chorus, 3= 1+clean boost, 4= 1+a bit of dirt. But the way I use it it to set the bank up with four basic patches (in my case based on amps) and then using the option to turn each patch into a pedal board, I have the ability to turn on and off up to four effects within that board. For example I select bank 1, which has two patches based on the Ampeg head and cab, one based on a TE head and one based on an acoustic head. The song requires me to select patch 2 (in which the Ampeg is set up with some drive and I'm using a 4x10" cab). Three clicks of the selection foot switch brings me to the 'board' function. Patch 2 has chorus, flange, phase and delay and I can turn these on and off like individual pedals during the song. The next song needs a clean sound so I select patch 1, with a clean Ampeg head and a 1x15" cab, and I now have chorus, flange, bass EQ and reverb as options. If most of your 'in-song' changes involve single effects this is probably the best way to go. If you drastically change your sound mid-song, creating entire patches for each sound is the better option.

 

The editing can be done on the unit itself (which is what I've done) or using Zoom's Guitar Lab software (which I can't comment on as I haven't used it with the B6 yet). As has been mentioned, the B6 has a mute/tuner function, four DI types and a parallel line out and two separate inputs that are foot switch selectable. 

 

It's more complicated to describe than it is to do and, like most things, the hard work you put in at the start makes using the kit in a gig easy. And, of course, you only have to set it up once. I expect other multi fx units will provide similar functionality - I went with Zoom as I'd read good reviews here and had experience with other Zoom units.

[LukeFRC]

1 hour ago, Pirellithecat said:

I've asked my son to bring his Pod Go up for Christmas as this has a  high number of footswitches. 

I imagine from reading this that Pod Go is the best answer... high quality and of them all, probably the easiest to use

[Bass Culture]

I'm surprised no one's mentioned either of the TC Plethora models.  I'm an effects numptie though, so maybe they are lacking something the OP is specifically looking for?