Fender American II Pro Bass with bottomed out saddles - easy fix?

[ASW]

Ideal candidate for a shim the if everything else is in order. You'll be able to get the action much lower.

[JohnR]

I had a similar experience with my AM 2 Pro and changed the bridge to a Babicz. I detest the Fender bridges. 

[Aidan63]

it's as if they were designed for a high mass bridge but ended up with bbot instead as people expect tradition from Fender (or because they are cheaper, thus more profit)

which ever bridge they fit Fender always have the description big up the choice made

[SurroundedByManatees]

Good chance it only needs a shim (like someone mentioned already) for lower action. Most of the Fenders I've owned (old or recent) needed one to get the action very low while maintaining a decent break angle on the bridge. I don't expect the neck to be faulty.

[Burns-bass]

My US Pro jazz bass bridge.

 

Not bottomed out, but very low.

 

[daws0n]

Took the guitar to local luthier today for second opinion. There is a shim already in the neck pocket, it's very small though and has indented into the wood so not doing much.

 

With a bigger shim installed there is plenty of adjustment on the saddles, but lower action is causing dead notes high up on the neck.

 

He agreed that the neck relief is still off (forward bow), I've left it with him to look at.

 

 

 

Edited January 17 by daws0n

[daws0n]

Man this bass is giving me a headache!

 

She's back in hand again today - good news is the truss rod is definitley working and it now has a straighter neck and a nicer look bridge / saddle setup due to the new shim.

 

Bad news is the neck is too straight now, I  measured 0.008" relief so it now needs more relief added.

Output and tone have been robbed somehow - I noticed when I bought it that I needed to dial the amp volume up 1/2 steps to get the same output as my other basses. Now with the pickups even further away from the strings I need to dial up considerably higher.

 

I've taken the scrath plate off and am slowly adding relief myself, currently at 0.010", aiming for recommended 0.012" as a starter.

 

 

Edited January 18 by daws0n

[Reggaebass]

9 minutes ago, daws0n said:

Now with the pickups even further away from the strings I need to dial up considerably higher

Hi, sorry if you have already done this but have you adjusted the pickups up with a few turns on the screws, 

[daws0n]

Yes, the screws threads  rise but the pick ups seem to be at full height already.

 

If anyone out there owns an AM Pro II jazz, could you kindly measure the distance between the E string and the pick ups for me?

 

My are measuring as follows:

 

Bridge 6mm

Neck 6.25mm

 

Edit: Mojo restored now that relief is measuring somewhere between 0.012 and 0.013 again - when I plugged it in earlier my heart sank a little, all the snap and pop had gone.

 

Re-measuring the action tonight it's in a very similar place height wise prior to adding the shim. What I don't like is that the E string chokes out now between 16-17-18-19. The A string less so, D / G strings are fine.

 

I am half-tempted to take it out (he used a strip of sandpaper in the back pocket) and re-do the saddle setup myself.

 

I've read praise for full pocket shims, particularly the ones from stew mac. Are they worth a try?

Edited January 18 by daws0n

[Muppet]

Ok lots of things to check but you need to be a bit methodical. Get your neck relief sorted first, but give your adjustments a bit of time to settle.  Then your string height, then your pickup height. I start low and slowly raise.  If your strings are sounding dead at certain frets then check the strings first and then check your fret height with a straight edge. You might have a couple of high frets here and there.

 

You’ll get there soon enough and be really happy! 

[daws0n]

Dead notes were not an issue prior to shim #2 install (shim #1 was a thin plastic strip so wasn't doing much).

 

My knee jerk thought is to take out the shim tomorrow and see how it plays now the relief is in a better place. I'll admit though I am a bit unsure about taking the neck off, is there any best practice to follow for unscrewing the neck?

 

Thinking the safest/best way to go about it would be to unscrew the lone one furthest from the body, then the other 4 in a criss cross fashion. Does it really matter?? No idea! Excuse the pendantry if it's not needed

[daws0n]

I've found a comprehensive guide on here courtesy of BOD2 which has been very helpful (good job!). Got up early before everyone else to make a start.

 

 

As a trial run re: neck removal I've used my trusty Hondo 830 precision copy as a guinea pig.

 

I took it to the same luthier last year and I recall that he put in a shim on this bass also, here it is:

 

 

It's a couple of strips of sand paper near the back pocket, at least it hasn't squashed in like the plastic strip shim #1 had on my AMII. I've taken it out and the saddles still have plenty of room for adjustment (see attached) so seems pointless putting it back in.

 

Will move onto the the AMII later today, I'm assuming it will be sandpaper cut in similar fashion but we'll see. BOD2's above guide suggests cutting a shim from thin card stock to the fit back pocket snuggly, so I'll try that if needed.

Edited January 19 by daws0n

[MrCrane]

10 hours ago, daws0n said:

is there any best practice to follow for unscrewing the neck?

 

Make sure you replace the screws in the same hole they came out of.  I’ve heard of case where screws of differing lengths have been used.

[daws0n]

Good point MrCrane, my Hondo has equal sized screws but I'll be sure to check what's what on the Fender.

[daws0n]

Here are some better photos the AMII with shim #2 installed. The E string saddle has gone from being bottomed out to 3mm above the bridge, since the rest of the string heights were OK they are now standing very proud. I am thinking it would benefit from a thinner shim to bring the saddle height down and increase pickup output?

Edited January 19 by daws0n

[SurroundedByManatees]

Saddle height looks fine to me, I wouldn't change the shim. It doesn't hurt to keep some room for fiddling in case you'll use some other strings that allow a lower adjustment.

[Muppet]

It won't increase pickup output. The output is the output. You need to adjust the pickups last, once you've got the relief and action sorted and you need to adjust them to get the sound you want. Starting with Fender's standard specs is ok, but then adjust by ear from there. To far away and you'll get a thin weak sound, too close and you'll get a dull muffled sound.  If you don't have enough adjustment in pickup height then you need to consider replacing the foam underneath them, although given that it's relatively new you should not need to do this yet. 

 

[acidbass]

This whole debacle is very disappointing.  A shim is really just to supplement a poor manufactured instrument.  I'd have expected better from Fender's flagship line to be honest.  I hope you find a solution

[daws0n]

Agreed, I am surprised given the cost of the instrument. The first bass I bought 2 years ago was a used JSH Vintage 940B - it's heavy and sounds uninspiring but it plays nicely was no more than £250 new. There is nothing fancy on it hardware wise but it works as it should.

https://hazeguitars.com/blog/neck-shimming-and-ski-jumps-the-latest-research

 

This guy says that full pocket shims are best and small shim can cause ski jumping. Not a term I've heard before, but my old Hondo definitley has this issue - for it's age it sounds and plays surprisingly well for budget aimed 80s instrument. Until Fret 14 onwards, when every note chokes and buzzes. I don't mind as it was not expensive and I enjoy it for what it is. I really want this Fender to play well as it's cost me more than most of my other basses put together!

Edited January 19 by daws0n

[daws0n]

Back onto the subject of pick ups, here is the distance between the neck / bridge pickups with finger down at fret 20:

 

4mm at neck pickup

5.5mm at bridge pickup

 

A long way off fender's recommendation here https://support.fender.com/en-us/knowledgebase/article/KA-01903

 

Had a good look at under the neck pick up with a flash light, I stand correct earlier - there are no springs over the pick up screws

 

Edited January 19 by daws0n

[daws0n]

Bass is now back to original state, glad I whipped up the bottle to get the neck off and take a look (equal size screws in case anyone's wondering). Found the original plastic shim in place with a piece of folded sand paper on top of it.

 

I've spent over £100 on setup fees since getting the bass, I seriously don't think I could do any worse a job myself with the basic tools I have at home.

 

She is back together while I figure out what to do next. Thinking either Blue Peter a shim out of cardstock or splash out on a Stew Mac full pocket shim.

 

A wood full pocket shim would be better long term however I'd need to buy a blank shim and make the holes myself. Damn shame he doesn't do a 5 bolt variant!

 

Option C is to buy a babicz bridge as recommended above but that will have to wait.

 

Edited January 20 by daws0n

[JohnR]

I've always followed the Fender setup guide for my jazz bass. It is very helpful and does a good job of optimising the playability of the bass. 

 

https://support.fender.com/en-us/knowledgebase/article/KA-01903

[daws0n]

Thank you John.

 

As it happens I found a video afternoon on YouTube which follows it step by step - very interesting watch!

 

 

Edited January 19 by daws0n

[Burns-bass]

10 hours ago, acidbass said:

This whole debacle is very disappointing.  A shim is really just to supplement a poor manufactured instrument.  I'd have expected better from Fender's flagship line to be honest.  I hope you find a solution

It’s a used instrument. Fender can’t be responsible for what happens when a bass is in the wild.

It’s disappointing that you took this to a professional who wasn’t able to do this to your satisfaction. 

 

Setting up and instrument is pretty easy, they’ve been designed in a way that makes this possible using some standard tools. I set the action, intonation, and pickup height while my wife cooked some pasta.

 

Pickups can become stuck sometimes and difficult to move, so worth getting the screwdriver, loosening them off, and then they’re having a wiggle.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[daws0n]

It's frustrating but tinkering over the weekend has been an education!

 

Fender recommended spec for pickup height is 2.8mm bottom (E) / 2mm top (G) - I've got them close @ 3mm / 2.5mm (neck) & 3mm / 2mm (bridge). I can't get the neck pick up rise anymore, if I unscrew them a little and wiggle the cover I seem to be moving the housing more than the pole pieces as I can see them recessing.

 

Repeating the same exercise with my MiM player jazz, it was a lot simpler and the pickups stay firmly in place. With the AMII pro, the pickups move about under pressure, if I use one as a thumb rest they start to sink.

 

Can anyone suggest a durable material to put under them for support? I've read mouse mats are a good choice.

 

With shims removed and proper neck relief, I've set the action now as follows:

 

E 2.6mm (bottomed out)

A 2.5mm

D 2.5mm

G 2mm

 

Looks like the plastic shim put in on the first setup was doing nothing to help, my guess is that it sunk into the body pretty much straight away after the neck was put back on. If I decide to try a shim again, I'll insist on a full pocket one.

 

Edited January 21 by daws0n