MacDaddy Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 Vocal ability can sometimes take second place to the ability to front the band and engage the audience etc. but it depends on the band. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass_dinger Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 3 hours ago, MacDaddy said: Vocal ability can sometimes take second place to the ability to front the band and engage the audience etc. but it depends on the band. Are you thinking of The Rolling Stones... ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDaddy Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 1 minute ago, bass_dinger said: Are you thinking of The Rolling Stones... ? That would be one example. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyJohnson Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 We had a drummer that we needed to let go. Nobody had the guts to do it so we broke the band up and reformed it a few weeks later. Singer and guitarist were behind the plot, but then the singer didn't want anything to do with the sacking. He was a lovely guy, just not good enough. Always late, gear falling apart, couldn't remember the material. A few weeks before the break, we gigged at the Half Moon in Putney and he missed most of the soundcheck; we borrowed the headliners drummer (a young French lady) and we sounded fantastic. He turned up a few minutes before end of our check. Singer wasn't convinced so we rehearsed with a different drummer just to prove a point. Interestingly, guitarist is on a new project and said things weren't going well with him drummer, he sent me a text saying he was so desperate he nearly called the guy we dropped. Sometimes it's just too hard to sit someone down and be brutally honest with them. Sometimes you have to do things differently/covertly. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambient Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 Send her a link to this thread. Job done. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zbd1960 Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 I'm a trained singer - but classical - I have 30+ years experience mostly singing as a baritone, but I've been workign with a teacher to sing tenor (there's a long story there but I'll leave it for another post). What many people (including singers) don't realise or understand is that there are different styles of singing and the techniques required are different. Not only that, but no one voice can sing all styles. There's a huge difference to being a choral singer to being a soloist. There's a difference between singing German lieder, singing opera, or singing musical theatre. It's a different style to be a Rat Pack crooner, a folk singer, or singing hard rock. If this person wants to sing rock/pop then they need to realise that it's a different style, requires different techniques and you can't just "have a go" and expect it to work. Even within one 'genre' there are variations. If I sing renaissance a cappella polyphony, it's a very different style to singing big C19th choral work with a large orchestra. Some more self awareness would help... suggestion about needing to work on 'style' with a teacher is probably a good route - but you need to find the right teacher... 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 (edited) 13 minutes ago, zbd1960 said: If this person wants to sing rock/pop then they need to realise that it's a different style, requires different techniques and you can't just "have a go" and expect it to work. Yes. The conversation is pretty easy. "We've given it a go, you're just not suited to it. Think it's best we move on." Dealing with the aftermath is the sensitive bit everyone doesn't like doing. But that's down to her friends so find one of her good mates to help. You may find they're not actually that into it. If they were they'd probably have been trying a lot harder at it. The whole thing does highlight when choosing musicians for your band: get it right at audition stage and if its not working within a few rehearsals, move on quickly and find someone else. A bit cut throat but performing in bands isn't a place for people who get offended easily. Edited January 2 by TimR 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casapete Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 16 minutes ago, zbd1960 said: I'm a trained singer - but classical - I have 30+ years experience mostly singing as a baritone, but I've been workign with a teacher to sing tenor (there's a long story there but I'll leave it for another post). What many people (including singers) don't realise or understand is that there are different styles of singing and the techniques required are different. Not only that, but no one voice can sing all styles. There's a huge difference to being a choral singer to being a soloist. There's a difference between singing German lieder, singing opera, or singing musical theatre. It's a different style to be a Rat Pack crooner, a folk singer, or singing hard rock. If this person wants to sing rock/pop then they need to realise that it's a different style, requires different techniques and you can't just "have a go" and expect it to work. Even within one 'genre' there are variations. If I sing renaissance a cappella polyphony, it's a very different style to singing big C19th choral work with a large orchestra. Some more self awareness would help... suggestion about needing to work on 'style' with a teacher is probably a good route - but you need to find the right teacher... Great post. I’m sure a lot of singers feel that swapping styles/genres is a doddle, but from my experience of working with a lot of them, it really isn’t! One of my pet peeves is when classical/opera singers try to do pop/rock stuff, and just don’t get it at all ( Michael Ball, Alfie Boe etc ). Likewise pop / rock singers trying to do swing/jazz (Rod Stewart and everyone else). 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Browning Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 3 hours ago, casapete said: Great post. I’m sure a lot of singers feel that swapping styles/genres is a doddle, but from my experience of working with a lot of them, it really isn’t! One of my pet peeves is when classical/opera singers try to do pop/rock stuff, and just don’t get it at all ( Michael Ball, Alfie Boe etc ). Likewise pop / rock singers trying to do swing/jazz (Rod Stewart and everyone else). I have a recollection of Graham Bonnet, on Rockschool, singing opera. Very impressive it was too. He had training in case you thought I was suggesting he was a natural. I was impressed that he had taken his craft so seriously. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass_dinger Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 1 hour ago, Steve Browning said: I have a recollection of Graham Bonnet, on Rockschool, singing opera. Very impressive it was too. He had training in case you thought I was suggesting he was a natural. I was impressed that he had taken his craft so seriously. Here Part 1 will take you to part 2, wherein he sings opera. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 Most trained singers can do all styles now. That's why Simon Cowell is struggling to find people with the X-Factor now. It's like all actors used to be able to do Shakespear. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baloney Balderdash Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 (edited) 9 minutes ago, TimR said: Most trained singers can do all styles now. That's why Simon Cowell is struggling to find people with the X-Factor now. It's like all actors used to be able to do Shakespear. I don't think that claim is in line with actual reality. Also seems like an odd analogy that to me doesn't really seem to actually work as an analogy here. Can't tell if you are joking. Edited January 2 by Baloney Balderdash 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 2 minutes ago, Baloney Balderdash said: I don't think that is in line with actual reality. Also seems like an odd analogy. Can't tell if you are joking. All the kids coming through theatre schools and stage schools are being trained in all aspects now. Modern and traditional. It's no longer true that you're either a classical singer or a rock singer. Especially when you look at what's going on in the West End in the way of variety across the board. My nephew has just finished in Les Mis, his contemporaries are doing all sorts of stuff. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baloney Balderdash Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 (edited) 8 minutes ago, TimR said: All the kids coming through theatre schools and stage schools are being trained in all aspects now. Modern and traditional. It's no longer true that you're either a classical singer or a rock singer. Especially when you look at what's going on in the West End in the way of variety across the board. My nephew has just finished in Les Mis, his contemporaries are doing all sorts of stuff. That might be, but does it reflect in the actual music industry, and musical underground as well, that is the actual music released, and do they all really do all styles equally well? Just because you are trained in something doesn't mean you are good at it. And I am certain different people will naturally have more talent in some styles over others, as well as I would think there is still something to be said for specializing over being a jack of all trades. Edited January 2 by Baloney Balderdash 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 1 minute ago, Baloney Balderdash said: That might be, but does it reflect in the actual music industry and musical underground as well, and do they all really do all styles equally well? Are singers in the music industry trained? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baloney Balderdash Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 (edited) 5 minutes ago, TimR said: Are singers in the music industry trained? No, but if not then what are you actually speaking about/what is your point? Also I posted my reply a bit premature, which I unfortunately have a really bad habit with, before I had made sure I actually said all I wanted to say, I apologize for that, but please read it again in the edited updated version. Edited January 2 by Baloney Balderdash 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Browning Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 I detest the horrible vibrato that musical theatre folk apply to other types of music. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zbd1960 Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 4 minutes ago, Steve Browning said: I detest the horrible vibrato that musical theatre folk apply to other types of music. I dislike big vibrato, especially that archetypal late C19th grand opera soprano type which feels like it covers a minor third... It was introduced as a means of cutting through and being heard against a big orchestra. Music theatre is a particular and distinctive style of singing, which works with some music and not with others. The style needs to be appropriate, and it often isn't. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Dare Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 1 hour ago, Steve Browning said: I detest the horrible vibrato that musical theatre folk apply to other types of music. Absolutely. I also hate the way they over-enunciate every word. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass_dinger Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 16 minutes ago, Dan Dare said: Absolutely. I also hate the way they over-enunciate every word. To be fair, the words can be very difficult to understand unless they enunciate clearly. Here, the real lyrics of O Fortuna - or are they just the misheard lyrics... 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casapete Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 1 hour ago, Steve Browning said: I detest the horrible vibrato that musical theatre folk apply to other types of music. Probably the main reason I detest musical theatre, although there are plenty more…. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 2 hours ago, Baloney Balderdash said: No, but if not then what are you actually speaking about/what is your point? The discussion was about trained singers. Often people get trained and then specialise. Better to be a jack of all trades than a master of none though oftentimes better than master of one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 1 hour ago, zbd1960 said: Music theatre is a particular and distinctive style of singing, If you can't hear the words of the play, you get a bit lost. Whereas nobody really cares what the singer is singing in a pub band. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 Yes. That Mariah Carey musical theatre woman. All over the place. Never get anywhere in the pop world. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonestar Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 “It’s not you it’s us; we don’t like you.” Still waiting for an opportunity to use that line to fire a band member. However, in this situation I think an honest, quiet conversation, probably not by text, is the best option. Might be a quick one, but better to be upfront with her. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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