Truss rod tightens but neck doesn't move

[MoonBassAlpha]

Hi hive mind.

I  got a guitar(telecaster) in for setup with quite a bad bow, about 1.5mm relief in the middle of the neck.

I  took it off the guitar and loosened the truss rod nut,  still a small bow.

As I tighten the nut the neck just doesn't move at all. There's also evidence of a small split in the middle of the fretboard at the 1st fret, though the fret isn't raised.

The nut is captive behind the usual Fender walnut plug. 

My first thought is to try and correct the bow by clamping with blocks in a workmate possibly under gentle warning. 

Second thought is removing the nut and adding a couple of washers to give more range of movement,  but I think this is less likely to work. 

Additional info,  '93 US Telecaster,  rosewood board,  skunk stripe .

Any useful input welcomed,  before I start going the clamping route .

Cheers folks!

[Baloney Balderdash]

10 minutes ago, MoonBassAlpha said:

Hi hive mind.

I  got a guitar(telecaster) in for setup with quite a bad bow, about 1.5mm relief in the middle of the neck.

I  took it off the guitar and loosened the truss rod nut,  still a small bow.

As I tighten the nut the neck just doesn't move at all. There's also evidence of a small split in the middle of the fretboard at the 1st fret, though the fret isn't raised.

The nut is captive behind the usual Fender walnut plug. 

My first thought is to try and correct the bow by clamping with blocks in a workmate possibly under gentle warning. 

Second thought is removing the nut and adding a couple of washers to give more range of movement,  but I think this is less likely to work. 

Additional info,  '93 US Telecaster,  rosewood board,  skunk stripe .

Any useful input welcomed,  before I start going the clamping route .

Cheers folks!

You do realize that loosening the truss rod will result in more relief, as in a greater bow, whereas tightening the truss rod will result in less release, as in less bow, right?

 

Also a crack in the fretboard is a really bad sign.

 

 

Edited January 8, 2024 by Baloney Balderdash

[MoonBassAlpha]

Yes thanks! What I'm saying is there's no change in the neck from totally loose to completely tight. Sorry if I wasn't being clear!

[BreadBin]

59 minutes ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

 

 

Also a crack in the fretboard is a really bad sign.

 

 

 

This. 

Sounds like the rod has been overtightened and the wood has failed at the headstock end. Adding washers will only exacerbate the problem.

[3below]

With a single action truss rod the ultimate bad result of this situation is that the fretboard cracks and parts company with the neck.  Personal experience with a USA bass, sorted by Jon Shuker and came back better than before.

[MoonBassAlpha]

41 minutes ago, 3below said:

With a single action truss rod the ultimate bad result of this situation is that the fretboard cracks and parts company with the neck.  Personal experience with a USA bass, sorted by Jon Shuker and came back better than before.

I imagine the cost of this type of repair wouldn't be far off the cost of a replacement neck? 

Did this involve a refret too?

[3below]

Replacement neck was considered, however the magic was eventually worked.  The price was very fair in relation to the instrument value.  New fretboard, better quality rosewood and stainless frets.  The end result is excellent.   For something with a standard neck a replacement neck may well be more cost effective, equally well, your fretboard may not be damaged beyond repair and the costs could be lower.

[MoonBassAlpha]

 

@3below thanks for the input. This is an acquaintance's guitar, this is going to be quite a blow, as he's not the wealthiest. Apparently,  it was the cheapest u. s. Tele on ebay at the time,  and now we know why. I'm quite gutted for him. 

Picture above is at the first fret.

Edited January 8, 2024 by MoonBassAlpha

[Andyjr1515]

As the others above say, it looks/sounds like something not good is going on under the fretboard.  Genuine Fender replacements can be quite expensive, but nowadays a 'standard tele' heel generally is pretty accurate even for the cheaper replacements and so neck replacement is usually straightforward and not prohibitively expensive.   

 

Personally, with this type of rod and neck - and especially given the availability of affordable and decent quality replacements - I would generally recommend replacing it rather than taking the fretboard off and trying to fix it.  If what I think might be happening is happening (I'm with @BreadBin and @Baloney Balderdash on this one), it may not be fixable in any case. 

[MoonBassAlpha]

Thanks for chipping in @Andyjr1515,  I love your work and value your opinion!

It does seem rather doomed, agreed. 

I've got the poor thing clamped right now to see if it might correct the bow, truss rod loosened. 

I've just had a thought today. 

The neck was badly checked all up and down, especially near the head, but none anywhere on the body. 

I'm thinking this could have been leant against a hot radiator,  and the string tension has set the neck in a bow.

Anyhow,  I'll leave it clamped for a few days,  may even warm it up, nothing to lose now 

[Andyjr1515]

Is it 21 fret or 22?  Northwest Guitars have rosewood, gloss finished with two options of colour shade for £119 in stock for the 21 fret ones.  They also do a 22 fret version although that appears to be presently out of stock.

 

Here's one of the 21 fret ones:

https://northwestguitars.co.uk/products/telecaster-compatible-guitar-neck-rosewood-fretboard?variant=44932326785298

 

 

 

[MoonBassAlpha]

It's actually a 22 fret, but thanks for the link, could prove very useful. 

That headstock would need drilling for the tuners, they're the square one with the 2 locating pins. I wonder if there's a template for drilling those?

[tauzero]

I replaced a Variax neck with a Fender clone neck, which required drilling the locating holes for the pins. It was a bit laborious, but I positioned the tuners and tightened the nuts up a little, enough to mark the headstock rear where the pins are, then using a hand drill to drill them. This wasn't a rotary hand drill, it was just basically a chuck, like this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/285509780779. I was scared of drilling through the headstock or getting it wonky if I used a power tool and I don't have a rotary hand drill, so this seemed like the best bet. It worked well, took about half an hour altogether.

[Andyjr1515]

12 hours ago, MoonBassAlpha said:

It's actually a 22 fret, but thanks for the link, could prove very useful. 

That headstock would need drilling for the tuners, they're the square one with the 2 locating pins. I wonder if there's a template for drilling those?

Coincidentally, I fitted a replacement neck recently to a friend's strat.  They were the same tuners and I made myself a little drill guide.  You just choose the most convenient one, pop the screwbush of the tuner through the jig and headstock hole, line the rest of the 'stick' up with the other holes to make sure it's square and then use the jig as your guide to drill your two small pilot holes.

 

I found it easier then to take the guide off to drill the peg holes themselves.  They don't have to be very deep so there should be little danger of drilling through.

 

 

If you pm me your address, I'd be more than happy to pop it in the post to you.

[MoonBassAlpha]

1 hour ago, Andyjr1515 said:

Coincidentally, I fitted a replacement neck recently to a friend's strat.  They were the same tuners and I made myself a little drill guide.  You just choose the most convenient one, pop the screwbush of the tuner through the jig and headstock hole, line the rest of the 'stick' up with the other holes to make sure it's square and then use the jig as your guide to drill your two small pilot holes.

 

I found it easier then to take the guide off to drill the peg holes themselves.  They don't have to be very deep so there should be little danger of drilling through.

 

 

If you pm me your address, I'd be more than happy to pop it in the post to you.

That's very kind Andy, and I'll bear it  in mind if it comes to this. I  love this community!

[Andyjr1515]

I've seen some good examples from these folks too.  Excellent quality and crazy price for the one I fitted recently (the owner supplied it to me to fit - only just confirmed where he got it from):

 

https://guitaranatomy.com/product-category/https-guitaranatomy-com-product-category-bodies-and-necks/

 

 

 

[MoonBassAlpha]

They look very nice too! Thanks again!

[Random Guitarist]

1 hour ago, Andyjr1515 said:

I've seen some good examples from these folks too.  Excellent quality and crazy price for the one I fitted recently (the owner supplied it to me to fit - only just confirmed where he got it from):

 

https://guitaranatomy.com/product-category/https-guitaranatomy-com-product-category-bodies-and-necks/

 

 

 

I'd second that endorsement. I bought a roasted maple tele neck from guitar anatomy perfect fit to a fender body and very nice quality

[BreadBin]

If you do end up replacing the neck I think a few of us would like to see what's going on under the fingerboard of the old one 🙂

[Stub Mandrel]

I had a Squier bass where thetruss rod would slacken over time. I realised the anchor at the body end was pulling into the wood. There was a small gap at the end of the skunk stripe in the heel (I had expected to need to drill it). I slackened off the truss rod and pumped in a good dose of cyanoacrylate to reinforce the wood and the anchor. Several years on it hasn't had to be adjusted since I sorted it.

[MoonBassAlpha]

I've had it clamped a sat on the radiator today. The neck is almost straight now  but needs to go further yet into a back bow  if it's going to play right under string tension.

[Downunderwonder]

I am no luthier but I doubt it came from a factory with a back bow. They would have built it straight and used the truss rod to control the relief.

 

Have you tried re stringing it or just assuming it isn't there yet?

[MoonBassAlpha]

Update,  clamped up again and played a hairdryer on it, then back on the radiator. @DownunderwonderThe reason I felt it needed a bit of backbow was that the truss rod didn't really seem to do any adjustment. 

Anyhow,  I  unclamped again this afternoon and the neck still had just a slight bow, restrung and found the truss rod has now a very slight effect,  so went as tight as I dared,  and the relief is now just about acceptable,  not quite as I'd like it,  but much more playable,  and bends on top e aren't choking,  so I'll count that as a win.  Check tomorrow that it hasn't settled back to it's former bow. Fingers crossed!

Edited January 13, 2024 by MoonBassAlpha