Is it still true that a 10-inch speaker will generally sound better than an 8-inch speaker?

[Jadegames]

I want to leave my older 10-inch 25W practice amp at my drummers place to make getting to his place to practice easier. This means I get to buy a new amp to practice at home but also take to do some jazz gigging.

 

I've been playing EB for decades, but I'm fairly new to UB and am looking to play jazz primarily on my UB. I don't need my new amp to compete power-wise with screaming rock guitar anything, but I want it to be pretty reasonably portable. UB are stupidly heavy!

 

I've been looking at either:

1. Ashdown Studio 10, Tweed - £189 - 60W, 10-inch speaker - 8.5 kg - From Gear4Music

2. Markbass Micromark 801    - £322 - 45W, 8-inch speaker -  5.2 kg - From thomann

 

I remember hearing YEARS ago that a 8-inch speaker just can't sound as good as a 10-inch speaker, but I'm not sure if that still holds true today. Plus everytime I've heard someone play with a Markbass it's been loud and clear enough so wanted to check.

 

Has anyone played with the above amps? Are they loud enough to play UB with a drummer, jazz guitar and some horn players in a jam session? Purely for the sake of portability, I am leaning towards the Micromark. UB are heavy and awkward enough to carry so the lighter/quicker/easier I can make things, the better all round, but just wanted to check.

 

Is there a better alternative out there. Budget is about £350-£400. I've ruled out the Rumble 40 as it's just too heavy to take to gigs and I know I'll end up regretting carrying it everywhere. I don't want anything really heavier than 9 kg.

 

Or maybe I should just get any old 25W bass amp because every jazz venue in Manchester has a PA system so it doesn't matter?

 

[Beedster]

No it's not generally true, not any more anyway. There are tiny cabs - and cabs with multiple tiny speakers - that can sound amazing compared to much larger cabs of lower quality. Quality, not quantity, is a big part of the picture (not the only part however)  

[ezbass]

The problem isn’t always the speaker either, but the cabinet it’s house in. I know it’s not always practical, or even possible, but trying out combos beforehand, preferably side by side, is the best way forward. FWIW I use Phil Jones rigs for both EB and EUB, which feature multiple 5” speakers (as alluded to by @Beedster above) and, IMO, sound great.

Edited January 18 by ezbass

[Jadegames]

The Phil Jones amps I've seen are a bit out of my price range tbh. They look really small and compact, but I don't think I've ever noticed anyone use them play live.

 

Also @ezbass, when you said try out the combos beforehand, does that mean bring my UB to test it? I'm trying to remember if I saw an UB in Johnny Roadhouse music the last time I went...

 

 

[ezbass]

1 minute ago, Jadegames said:

The Phil Jones amps I've seen are a bit out of my price range tbh. They look really small and compact, but I don't think I've ever noticed anyone use them play live.

 

Also @ezbass, when you said try out the combos beforehand, does that mean bring my UB to test it? I'm trying to remember if I saw an UB in Johnny Roadhouse music the last time I went...

 

 

Always use your own bass if possible. PITA? Oh yes, but it’s the best test. 

 

Yes, PJB stuff isn’t as cheap as some sadly. I’ve never seen anyone else using them live at gigs I’ve been to, although Pino (with PSP) and Kyle Eastwood are among their most prominent list of users.

[Beedster]

I used PJB live with electric and upright for about two years, I used the Super Flightcase (in bigger gigs with an extension cab) and it was very good, and I even used the briefcase for small DB gigs. I do feel that by compariosn with other brands PJB combos are underpowered, but that perhaps is a subjective (and possibly biased) opinion and many other disagree. 

 

PJB can be picked up quite cheap used here and elsewhere. 15 years ago it was cutting edge/innoovative  in terms of size and quality, these days there is a lot of competition 

[chris_b]

The size of a speaker means nothing. The sound depends of something like a dozen different parameters and the box.

 

Also depends on the volume. A speaker being driven at 50% will sound better than the same speaker being driven at 100% and a cheap speaker won't sound as good as a well made, more expensive, speaker no matter what size it is. IMO even with a quiet jazz drummer a 10" will sound better than an 8" speaker.

 

You're happily using a 25watt combo, so I'd suggest you get another combo, the same as your current one.

[Mottlefeeder]

I'm just south of Altrincham, and I have a twin 5 inch home brew cab, and a single 10 inch home brew cab. 

The smaller speaker cab take 4 times the power to reach the same volume, so a low-powered combo with a smaller speaker may struggle to provide rhe volume you need.

Happy to meet up if you would like to hear my small vs large boxes.

David

[jrixn1]

50 minutes ago, Jadegames said:

Are they loud enough to play UB with a drummer, jazz guitar and some horn players in a jam session? Purely for the sake of portability, I am leaning towards the Micromark.

 

I really like my Micromark 801 with upright bass.  I play with a 10- to 30-piece swing band/orchestra, and it will be fine at a jam session like you describe.  You can really crank it if necessary and it remains sounding good.

[Beedster]

1 minute ago, jrixn1 said:

 

I really like my Micromark 801 with upright bass.  I play with a 10- to 30-piece swing band/orchestra, and it will be fine at a jam session like you describe.  You can really crank it if necessary and it remains sounding good.

I found that with the Markbass 2x6 (or was it 2x8?) also, it was louder and had somewhat greater **heft** than the PJB Briefcase albeit similar vertical speaker alignment format which I found worked very well for DB gigs 

 

** = term is used with significant caution 

[Jadegames]

3 minutes ago, Beedster said:

I found that with the Markbass 2x6 (or was it 2x8?) also, it was louder and had somewhat greater **heft** than the PJB Briefcase albeit similar vertical speaker alignment format which I found worked very well for DB gigs 

 

** = term is used with significant caution 

 

Have you ever used the Phil Jones micro-7? Or any other Phil Jones product on an UB? Based on the pages and pages of reviews I've seen, those 2 seem to be the most popular lightweight amps that are under, £350-ish.

Edited January 18 by Jadegames

[chris_b]

My next door neighbour plays DB through a Markbass 112 combo. She sounds very good.

[fretmeister]

4 minutes ago, chris_b said:

My next door neighbour plays DB through a Markbass 112 combo. She sounds very good.

 

Through the wall?  

[Beedster]

20 minutes ago, Jadegames said:

 

Have you ever used the Phil Jones micro-7? Or any other Phil Jones product on an UB? Based on the pages and pages of reviews I've seen, those 2 seem to be the most popular lightweight amps that are under, £350-ish.

 

See below (and above)  

 

47 minutes ago, Beedster said:

I used PJB live with electric and upright for about two years,

 

[Jadegames]

50 minutes ago, Beedster said:

 

See below (and above)  

 

 

I just completely missed your comments. I guess I had to lose my mind sooner or later...

 

I'll look further into a Micromark 801. Maybe see if there's any second hand ones knocking about online and snap one up next payday.

 

EDIT; Seen the Microbass 801 going for £249. Probably grab it for that price, when I get paid next.

Edited January 18 by Jadegames

[pete.young]

Don't dismiss the PJB Double Four out of hand. It's surprisingly loud for it's size and will give any 25W 10" a run for it's money.

 

I've also used a PJB Briefcase with double bass and it works pretty well, but it's a heavy little beast even without the battery.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

3 hours ago, chris_b said:

The size of a speaker means nothing. The sound depends of something like a dozen different parameters and the box.

Pretty much. There is one factor that's almost entirely related to speaker size, that being midrange dispersion. The smaller the speaker the wider the dispersion angle. That's why midranges are smaller than woofers, and tweeters are smaller than midranges. But all else is determined by the Thiele/Small specs of the driver and the engineering of the cabinet.

[Marty Forrer]

The OP said a Rumble 40 is too heavy... what??? I can lift my Rumble 40 with one finger. (It weighs about 8kg from memory).

[Jadegames]

29 minutes ago, Marty Forrer said:

The OP said a Rumble 40 is too heavy... what??? I can lift my Rumble 40 with one finger. (It weighs about 8kg from memory).

Carrying an UB with anything else, any reasonable distance is no small feat. Although I might have mixed up the Rumble 40 & Rumble 100 weights...🤦‍♂️

 

Looking at the dimensions of the Micromark 801 (27cm x 27cm x 26cm) vs. Rumble 40 (42cm x 42cm x 30cm) the Markbass would be just that much easier to carry around with an UB on my back.

[Beer of the Bass]

23 hours ago, jrixn1 said:

 

I really like my Micromark 801 with upright bass.  I play with a 10- to 30-piece swing band/orchestra, and it will be fine at a jam session like you describe.  You can really crank it if necessary and it remains sounding good.

 

I've been seeing a few people say similar things about the 801, and it does look a handy size. If I end up doing more jazz volume double bass gigs I'd definitely want to try one. My GK MB200 and homebuilt 1x10" does fine for those, but an absolutely tiny combo seems appealing!

[StingRayBoy42]

I really like my MB 802 for electric and upright. 150W and 2x8" speakers.
Might be a bit big & heavy for your needs though.

I used to use a MB 101 Marcus Miller thing which I loved for upright - 45 watts on its own (I think?) and a 10 inch speaker - there's one for sale on here (not by me) which might be worth looking at?

[NickA]

No issue with small speakers, they suffer less from distortion and manage higher frequencies better.  You don't see 15" drivers in hifi speakers for good reason. The only problem is dispersion.  The sound from small speakers spreads out more so projection is less good.

 

Those little Markbass combos are really good. Much better for double bass than anything Ashdown make I reckon. Nice for practice but 45W will be quiet if anyone else is using amplification or the drummer is loud.

 

My double bass rig has 5" speakers ...but there are 10 of them so projection's not an issue. (pjb, yes, and I do use it live).  Not loud for its 400W rating and by today's standards not terribly light either. Sounds great tho. 

[Mottlefeeder]

Unless your chosen cab has neo speakers, a multi-speaker approach will always be a heavy lump, since each speaker will have a fairly large magnet - something else to factor in to the equation.

David

[NickA]

Mine has the neo drivers ..still quite heavy as the amps and casing are solidly built... but breaks down into two sections; the 150W top bit (a flightcase) is very portable and enough for rehearsals and acoustic gigs.  The more recent pjb stuff with piranha ferrite drivers is heavier.

 

Those tiny pjb amps: bass buddy, double four and micro 7..great practice amps, but you'd need to DI them into a pa or use the lineout into a powered cab for most gigs.

[warwickhunt]

Speaking of speaker size...

 

I did a thing the other day which might be of interest if you are talking about the tone/sound of a speaker based on its diameter.  Have a listen to the examples and see if you can tell the difference between a 10/12/15 speaker.  It bears relevance if you are comparing 8" and 10" solely based on diameter.