Nitrocellulose-safe stands?

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

When I left one of my JMJ mustangs on a hercules headstock dangler type of stand it developed black stains in the area in contact with the stand. I was able to clean it up so there is just a faint dark mark now, — not really a problem on a roadworn instrument, but to prevent this reoccurring I ensure there is at least one layer of t-shirt between the bass & stand at the point of contact. Not ideal but 'it is what it is' as some would say.

 

Can anyone recommend a specific stand (masnufacturer & model) which is definitely safe out of the box for instruments with nitrocellulose lacquer?

 

 

[AndyTravis]

Hercules and Ultimate stands 🫡

[Skybone]

Hercules claim that the foam their stands use is nitrocellulose safe, though others on here have disputed this. Think if you search in this thread, you'll find something.

 

I bought a Hercules stand dur to the claim that the foam is safe for cellulose finishes, but I don't tend to leave my bass on it for any length of time anyway.

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

I don't trust Hercules, in addition to the discolouration of the JMJ on one hercules stand, which I was able to nip in the bud,  another hercules stand developed the sticky and disintegrating plastic issue and my email to the company about it went unanswered — so Hercules is currently on my sh!t list, along with tascam and native instruments (for entirely different reasons)

[HornetPinata]

There are so many words in my post it may give you hope I have an answer. I don't. Not even close.

 

I look for the same thing a couple of times a year never to find anything. I have two nitro'ed old Gibsons so when I play them I put them back in the case (where they spend most of their days) which isn't optimal if I'm trying to record something. A stand/hanger would be nice.

 

I did a short search just now only to find nothing yet again..A K&M stand with cork binding looked promising but it was plasticised. I'd had found it to look less sturdy than required anyway. The Levy's forged hanger with leather binding had leather containing chemicals and Levy's do not recommend them with vintage lacquer/finishes. (It also states it contains chemicals known to the state of California to cause cancer🙂) 

 

The best I can come up with is getting a metal hanger made by a blacksmith/metalworker and have a leathersmith make the protective bits with non chemically treated leather. Or removing any non wanted material on a sturdy hanger and replace it with chemically untreated cork/leather. 

 

The one thing I think I may have learned is that the process that hurt Nitrocellulose lacquer could be caused by a process called Plastizicer migration or Plasticiser loss. As you can see I'm not even sure of the spelling.

 

Sorry for being of no help. I'll follow this thread and hope someone will have the right answer.

Edited January 22, 2024 by HornetPinata
spelling/grammar etc

[Osiris]

14 hours ago, Jean-Luc Pickguard said:

When I left one of my JMJ mustangs on a hercules headstock dangler type of stand it developed black stains in the area in contact with the stand. I was able to clean it up so there is just a faint dark mark now, — not really a problem on a roadworn instrument, but to prevent this reoccurring I ensure there is at least one layer of t-shirt between the bass & stand at the point of contact. Not ideal but 'it is what it is' as some would say.

 

Can anyone recommend a specific stand (masnufacturer & model) which is definitely safe out of the box for instruments with nitrocellulose lacquer?

 

 

 

Interesting, and I'm sorry to hear that. My JMJ lives on one of two Hercules wall hangers when it's not being played, I've had the bass 4 years now and it has been hung on the wall in all that time and there's no visible discolouration or other reaction artefacts where the hanger is in contact with the head. The wall hangers have been up for around 10 years now.

 

When I'm out gigging and rehearsing I use the Hercules headstock dangler type stands too with no issues. But the stands are only around 3 years old. Like you, I had an issue with a pair of older Hercules stands where the plastic clamping system was starting to get sticky and break down. But at this point those stands were something like 15 or more years old and credit where it's due to Hercules, when I contacted them to alert them to the issue they replaced both free of charge, not that I was expecting them too considering the age of them.

 

So I appreciate that this doesn't help in your situation and it sounds like you've just been unlucky. And for what it's worth, I'd be annoyed too in your situation. 

[BigRedX]

11 hours ago, Jean-Luc Pickguard said:

another hercules stand developed the sticky and disintegrating plastic issue and my email to the company about it went unanswered

 

Who did you email? Hercules or their UK distributor Strings & Things?

 

Strings and Things replaced all 5 of my Hercules stands that had developed the sticky plastic syndrome.

[Skybone]

You could always remove the foam from any guitar stand, and replace them with strips of cloth (like a cut up old t-shirt or something).

 

On one old stand I had, where the rubber had perished, I removed it and wrapped the arms in some old ties. Not ideal, but it was one way to get the stand back in use.

Edited January 22, 2024 by Skybone

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

I think I'll just continue with the old t-shirt over the contact points. Might finesse this in the future by making something to fit better.

[Skinnyman]

I bought some sticky-backed fabric from Amazon and wrapped that round the foam bits on the stand that were causing black marks on a couple of my guitars. 
 

Cost about a fiver and took two minutes to do. 

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

That sounds interesting. Are you able to post a link to the stuff you used?

[Skinnyman]

14 hours ago, Jean-Luc Pickguard said:

That sounds interesting. Are you able to post a link to the stuff you used?

It was this stuff 

 

BENECREAT 40cmx2m Black Self... https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B089M27T16?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

 

£12 for a roll big enough to do a couple of dozen guitar stands 😁

 

There are cheaper/smaller options and you can probably get it from any craft supplier

[BigRedX]

Aren't nitro finished basses supposed to get worn due to interactions with their environment?

 

I believe the term is "Mojo"?

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

There is a difference between mojo and damage

[Crusoe]

Could you slide a couple of old socks over the arms?

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

That's an idea, but if I try it I'd probably use brand new 100% cotton socks

[walshy]

Konig and Meyer do multi stands that are nitro safe, I have just bought a couple on the recommendation of @hiram.k.hackenbacker

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

Is it this one? https://www.thomann.de/gb/km_17515_guardian_transluzent.htm

 

If so, it says it is 'not suitable for Guitars With Pyroxylin Varnish'.

 

Googling 'Pyroxylin Varnish' suggests that it is a poncy way of saying nitrocelluose lacquer, so I'm confused

[walshy]

This one

 

https://www.thomann.de/gb/km_17525_guardian_5_translucent.htm

 

says suitable for nitro in description 

[hiram.k.hackenbacker]

49 minutes ago, walshy said:

Konig and Meyer do multi stands that are nitro safe, I have just bought a couple on the recommendation of @hiram.k.hackenbacker

What do you think? I really like mine.

[walshy]

21 minutes ago, hiram.k.hackenbacker said:

What do you think? I really like mine.

Excellent mate

[HornetPinata]

Thank you @walshy for sharing. 

 

It looks like they have several stands and wall mounts that are nitro safe.

I never knew as Thomann don't seem to mention it on a few of the models that I could use. 

Here is a list of the nitro safe stands and hangers:

https://www.k-m.de/brand/en/nitro-lacquer-info-sheet/

 

Thank you @Jean-Luc Pickguard for making this thread. I'd given up finding something and was never going to get a custom one made.

[HornetPinata]

There is this little caveat from K&M though:

However with nitro lacquers which are not fully hardened it can happen in some cases that the colors of the guitars “bleed”, that means that the colors blur or fade, and can cause dents.

König & Meyer is not liable for such damages!

 

I missed that. Still think it's as good as it gets and lacquer from the 70s better be hardened by now. 

Edited January 23, 2024 by HornetPinata
added and spelling

[Steve Browning]

On 23/01/2024 at 10:54, Crusoe said:

Could you slide a couple of old socks over the arms?

 

Be careful though. I did that and fell over as I tried to walk away. 🙂