Band members getting on a bit...

[theplumber]

Been in a covers band for about a year and a half. I have got to know the guys pretty well by now. We are all in our 60's and the oldest,the keyboard guy has just turned 68. The band has been going for about 7 years and during this time they have settled in to a set of songs which cover our weekend gigs and allow the set to be changed slightly each gig. It's pretty clear now that we need a few more songs to keep it fresh as they say! During a conversation after a gig the other night it was made clear by the keys guy that he really wasn't in to any new songs coming in as he feels we have everything covered and that the band was super tight...which it is. The rest of us tried to push him a bit in to being open to at least running over some ideas.He then said he would but it may take some time as he is struggling with our current set and mistakes have started creeping in now and again. In all fairness we all make the odd slip up from time to time. But after having conversations with him on the way home it seems his general health isn't that good at the moment and he would prefer using his practise time to keep on top of the current set rather than lose any ground by bringing in songs that will take up his time and headspace. We have had a chat and at the moment we are giving him the option of doing what he can to get through the gigs. There isn't any question of replacing him unless he feels he is no longer up to the job. Fingers crossed we get through the year as ther is over 45 gigs between now and December. Anyway...anyone else in similar situation with band mates or indeed themselves. I am 63 in a couple of weeks and hopefully have a few years still left in me! In fact I have joined another band and have a bundle of other songs to get on with! Now...where did I put my bass!!..

[mr4stringz]

Not in a similar situation, but it sounds like you’re doing the best you can for your compadre in the circumstances. Could playing the odd new tune here and there in the set that doesn’t require keys work? Might give him the opportunity for the odd breather and scratch the itch for some new material too?

[KingBollock]

What about replacing songs in your set that he currently struggles the most with, with simpler new songs?

[asingardenof]

Slightly similar situation in that it's our keyboardist who's the most likely of us to be a blocker to getting new songs learned, which we desperately need to do. I suggested Two Tribes not so long ago and everyone else is pumped to give it a go, but he's on one about it being "too produced" or something, forgetting that as a covers band we can arrange it how we like.

[gjones]

Frankly as we get older I feel we need to be mentally challenged, or our brains will vegetate. Interestingly, my brother in law, who is an professional electric guitarist/vocalist in his early 60s, has complained of forgetfulness and he's member of a band that is the house band at a local music venue. They play with different front men/women twice per month and he has to learn their sets. Some of those songs are standard but many are songs he's never heard before and he learns them pretty flawlessly every two weeks. I feel if he hadn't had that incentive to learn new songs, as a work out for his brain, the issue with his memory would be far worse than it is.

[theplumber]

1 hour ago, KingBollock said:

What about replacing songs in your set that he currently struggles the most with, with simpler new songs?

He does't struggle as such. He has what you would call senior moments! We do Life On Mars and last time we played it he blanked a bit during it..he stopped playing for a couple of seconds then picked it up again. Certain songs you can get away with it others not so... He say's he has to go over most if not all of the current set before every gig. I pick out some songs that I maybe have not played for a bit or not played well enough ( for my liking lol) He is really trying hard it has to be said. The band seem to have been playing most of the songs for about 7 years! So they really don't want to change!

[theplumber]

39 minutes ago, asingardenof said:

Slightly similar situation in that it's our keyboardist who's the most likely of us to be a blocker to getting new songs learned, which we desperately need to do. I suggested Two Tribes not so long ago and everyone else is pumped to give it a go, but he's on one about it being "too produced" or something, forgetting that as a covers band we can arrange it how we like.

Yes our keyboard guy is the same! I suggested Hit Me With Your Rhythm Stick a while back and he said wow that's a hard bass line !! Lol I said just learn the keys and I will do the rest! Then he went on about the different sounds he would have to programme in and the production on the record.....I fell asleep at that point! But yes he can't see the wood for the trees at times!

[theplumber]

33 minutes ago, gjones said:

Frankly as we get older I feel we need to be mentally challenged, or our brains will vegetate. Interestingly, my brother in law, who is an professional electric guitarist/vocalist in his early 60s, has complained of forgetfulness and he's member of a band that is the house band at a local music venue. They play with different front men/women twice per month and he has to learn their sets. Some of those songs are standard but many are songs he's never heard before and he learns them pretty flawlessly every two weeks. I feel if he hadn't had that incentive to learn new songs, as a work out for his brain, the issue with his memory would be far worse than it is.

Is it not a good aid to keeping the memory sharp? I heard it is. Plus and I forgot to add it's good for our mental health playing and listening to music.

[TimR]

I would be looking for another band to join if you're not being challenged. Although with 45 gigs I don't see you'd have any time.

 

I'd suggest he is struggling because no one can concentrate on songs they've been playing every week for 7 years. I start thinking about what I'm doing tommorw or what song is next on the setlist during most of our set. 

[BigRedX]

To the OP.

 

Your keyboard player's problem sounds more like a case of "can't be arsed" than anything else.

[SumOne]

I think, as others have said - perhaps try some new songs that don't need keys, or don't need anything challenging on keys. Perhaps he'd end up prefering them if there is less to do or it means he can take a break in the set.

 

And as far as him stopping playing for a few seconds, well, I don't know what high standards you set yourselves but in any band I've been in we're lucky if there isn't some sort of mistake by someone in almost every song! Only the most attentitve and nerdy of audience members (probably ones that play the same songs in their own bands) tend to notice, and when people do notice they don't tend to care - the sponteneity and risk of mistakes is partly why people want to see live music. I've seen plenty of big headline bands mess up songs enough to need to re-start them and it usually seems like the audience quite enjoy that falable human element to it. 

 

Personally, when I've got bored of a Band's setlist I've done some depping for the new challenge of learning a new setlist in a different genre.

[Len_derby]

My take on this, based on my experience, is that he’s ‘coming in to landing’. He sounds like he wants to carry on playing the same songs, in the same way, until such time as he retires totally. I don’t think you’ll change him and it sounds like suggestions you’ve made already have been resisted. So, if that is the case you need to decide how you will manage that. How do the rest of the band feel about it?

Another possibility is that he’s got things going on in his life that mean he needs to disengage with aspects of the music. Increased caring responsibilities for a partner, for example. 
You’ve got a good schedule of gigs for the year, so you must be a decent band!

[theplumber]

1 hour ago, TimR said:

I would be looking for another band to join if you're not being challenged. Although with 45 gigs I don't see you'd have any time.

 

I'd suggest he is struggling because no one can concentrate on songs they've been playing every week for 7 years. I start thinking about what I'm doing tommorw or what song is next on the setlist during most of our set. 

I have actually joined another band with about 20 gigs so far this year... So no complaints about having to learn more stuff! Bring it on! It's all worked out between the two bands so no clashes of dates. I can see us just plodding away with the current set but I will be having a good think about what I want to do next year.

[theplumber]

50 minutes ago, SumOne said:

I think, as others have said - perhaps try some new songs that don't need keys, or don't need anything challenging on keys. Perhaps he'd end up prefering them if there is less to do or it means he can take a break in the set.

 

And as far as him stopping playing for a few seconds, well, I don't know what high standards you set yourselves but in any band I've been in we're lucky if there isn't some sort of mistake by someone in almost every song! Only the most attentitve and nerdy of audience members (probably ones that play the same songs in their own bands) tend to notice, and when people do notice they don't tend to care - the sponteneity and risk of mistakes is partly why people want to see live music. I've seen plenty of big headline bands mess up songs enough to need to re-start them and it usually seems like the audience quite enjoy that falable human element to it. 

 

Personally, when I've got bored of a Band's setlist I've done some depping for the new challenge of learning a new setlist in a different genre.

Agreed...we all make mistakes! I can see us just carrying on with the current set. As mentioned we move about the place and have enough gigs to get on with. I have joined another band as well and they really only gig about 20 to 25 times a year. Two bands are enough for me!

[theplumber]

1 hour ago, BigRedX said:

To the OP.

 

Your keyboard player's problem sounds more like a case of "can't be arsed" than anything else.

Not really... He has a sleep disorder and other health issues. It would devistate him to have to pack it in. Hopefully he can manage to carry on. 

[TimR]

2 hours ago, theplumber said:

Not really... He has a sleep disorder and other health issues. It would devistate him to have to pack it in. Hopefully he can manage to carry on. 

 

If he is overweight (just guessing) maybe be has sleep apnea. That will really mess with concentration and can cause micro-sleeps. 

[Cliff Edge]

We can’t avoid getting old and part of it is the old memory starts to give off warnings at inappropriate times. I use playing music as a means to combat that. Hopefully. 

[Mickeyboro]

I have a band where I am the youngest at 68!

 

The 74 year old lead singer is our ‘blockage’, but when I suggest songs for me to sing he is keener to redress the balance!

[theplumber]

1 hour ago, TimR said:

 

If he is overweight (just guessing) maybe be has sleep apnea. That will really mess with concentration and can cause micro-sleeps. 

Don't know much about it. He deffo is not overweight. He has some sort of night terrors thing going on.....maybe he dreams about doing new stuff lol. But yes he doesn't sleep well and it does affect his concentration and general well being.

[Kitsto]

A friend of mine plays bassoon in a local amateur orchestra. They had to let go one of their windplayers because he was making mistakes (which matters more, I guess, in classical music). Now my mate has himself retired (mid-60s) in case it starts to happen to him.

 

Sounds as if theplumber is doing the right thing: finding other outlets; while wondering how long this particular one will last.

[BassBunny]

Having just turned 75 I relish learning new numbers. I've been playing with soul bands on and off since the 60's, so some of our numbers I've been playing for 50+ years. Funnily enough it's these numbers I seem to make the odd mistake with as I feel I know them so well, I don't seem to think about them. Newer numbers I really concentrate on.

[Franticsmurf]

On 22/01/2024 at 20:18, theplumber said:

He then said he would but it may take some time as he is struggling with our current set and mistakes have started creeping in now and again.

I'm in a band where the drummer is 75. He's very good and very busy (he plays with two other Jazz/Big Bands and regularly deps for local jazz, Strict Tempo etc bands). What I've noticed is that while he's not reluctant to try new songs, his confidence is starting to go a bit. When he does make a mistake (its very rare that any one notices him making an error) he tends to focus on that rather than the other 2-3hrs of great playing. When he talks about a Jazz band gigm, the first thing that tends to come out is 'this mistake, that mistake, missed a beat' etc. Reading between the lines, it seems he's beginning to think about his age and rather than celebrate the fact he can still do it, blame the years and start to think he's past it. I had a chat with him before Christmas and talked about letting the missed beats go - because its likely that no one but him will notice 99% of the time. 

 

One of the factors I think doesn't help is that in the Jazz and Dance bands, the B/L tends not to hand out positive criticism. There's also an old school mentality amongst the players who, from what he tells me, are unwilling to praise their fellow musicians but quick to nit pick. So I've started to mention the good bits when he's playing with me or when I hear recordings of the other bands he's in. Genuine praise (flattery would be worse as he'd see through it straight away). 

 

Maybe it's a confidence issue with your keyboard player associated with his perception of what is expected of a 68 year old, his health or both. I don't know the characters involved so I can't say what would work (and you may already be doing this) but perhaps a subtle and genuine praise for some of his playing, 'lets try a different arrangement' to simplify the things he's struggling with - even get him to suggest the new arrangement. If it is a confidence thing, the aim is to boost it without going over the top. This may be a temporary situation and it would be a shame for the band to stagnate.

 

With my drummer, we've got to the stage now where we joke about any mistakes, referring to them as our free form jazz moments. 😀  More importantly, I haven't heard any of his age related comments so I think he might be getting over that one. 

[BassAdder60]

On 23/01/2024 at 09:21, BigRedX said:

To the OP.

 

Your keyboard player's problem sounds more like a case of "can't be arsed" than anything else.

^This !!

Change your keys as he is holding you back potentially. Thats just being lazy even if he is 68 !

[TimR]

I think if I was in a band with 43 gigs lined up and then extra practices to learn material, and the personal time to set aside to learn, I might start asking whether it has turned into a full time job that's stopping me from doing other things. Especially if I was retired. 

 

Learning bass lines to songs is pretty easy, they mostly write themselves. I wonder how much work it is learning keyboard tunes when you're not just comping the chords. 

[chris_b]

Everyone makes mistakes. I was at a Victor Wooten bass clinic and he said that on gigs he made mistakes all the time. He even made a few on that night!

 

I could get £250 from Harry Hill for some of mine, but it's how you get out of them that counts.