Basses cost a lot these days

[TimR]

22 minutes ago, Bassfinger said:

Not only that, what do people think happens to basses at gigs? I've never suffered so much as a nick on any of mine.

 

Mine's 20 years old. Lots of minor damage from rehearsals and gigs. Dings and scratches. It happens. 

 

Main culprit is standing in corners or close to cymbals in small pubs. 

 

The question is did you spend that much because it sounds good and plays well, or did you spend the extra becasue it looks nice. 

 

If its the latter, frame it and hang it on the wall. 

Edited January 25 by TimR

[Boodang]

27 minutes ago, adriansmith247 said:

Who would take a £2000+ bass out on a gig? 

 

I certainly wouldn't but it is all relative as someone has already pointed out. I regularly take a £2000 value double bass out to gigs. It's the only one I have so I don't have much choice there. With DB you have to spend more usually to get a playable instrument. Fitting a new bridge, a pickup and a new set of strings can run into over £800

Who would take a £2k+ bass to a gig?…. Apparently you would!!! Or don’t DBs count as a bass?! And way more delicate the a bass guitar. 
But I jest of course! However, I agree with others… I can afford an expensive bass and I’m not going to be precious about it. My basses get used and abused and gigged, scratched up, beaten up and if they’re lucky I might polish it occasionally. I don’t buy them to just look good!

Thinking of my last gig, our bass player borrowed my EUB and sei, I had my top of the range Yamaha ekit, xr18, foh speakers and cables, and even my synth… gigging is an expensive business, or at least it can be. 

[chris_b]

Buy the best gear you can find.

 

The stuff that just fits, feels right, looks good and sounds like a million dollars.

 

If it's expensive or cheap, just buy it. . . . be happy, and know you're sounding good.

[StingRayBoy42]

Yes, top end Basses from the likes of Fender and EBMM cost a lot, but there are loads of good Basses around for a really good price... Sire, Squier and Harley Benton off the top of my head.

When I were a lad (late 1800s), options for cheap Basses were limited and fairly pants - anyone remeber Marlin or Hohner Arbor?
Squier Basses were rubbish then, now they're fantastic. We could (and no doubt will) argue if they're on a par with the US models, but they're undoubtedly well made, decent sounding Basses that are affordable for most people.

Some good points made about nostalgia - I'd love a YOB P Bass but as they now go for 3-4K (and upwards), I'll probnably never own one.

I'd be really interested to see Bass prices then (70s/80s) alongside incomes of posties, teachers, bus drivers, nurses etc compared to prices now vs those same incomes.

I paid £850 new for my StingRay in 94/95 which was a lot of money. Still got it, still love it, still gig it.

[NJE]

I have been fortunate enough to have owned and gigged expensive custom made basses like Overwater, Fenders, Stingrays, Squiers and a Harley Benton Jazz I got for free.

 

With some small amounts of adjustment almost all of them have been great sounding and playing instruments. At no point has a member of the public commented on my basses, how good or bad they sounded, and none of them made a significant difference to the sound of my band. Yes some fitted better with different genres or tunes but none sounded bad.

 

Two basses stand out over the years. First was a Fender American Standard bass that was total horse-poop and should have been picked out and burned before it left the factory, and it cost over 1k new.

 

The second was a Squier Vintage modified Precision V that I got for under £300 new. That bass was sublime, so much fun to play, looked quite striking in white with a tort guard. I gigged that and smiled all night long while I was playing it. Can’t remember why I sold it to be honest but I have looked for another since.

 

Moral of the story from my perspective; most people don’t give a monkeys about your gear, you can get inspiring and fun instruments at any price point, buy what makes you happy if you can afford it.
 

Losing people had taught me life’s too short to not enjoy the fruits of your labour as long as you can take care of yourself and the people around you.

[TimR]

55 minutes ago, StingRayBoy42 said:

anyone remeber Marlin

 

I still have my Sidewinder from 1985. Everytime I get it out of the bag I have to adjust the truss rod and the pickups pick up mains hum to the extent its unplayable in a theatre. 🤣

 

Think it was £120 new. 

[StingRayBoy42]

3 minutes ago, TimR said:

 

I still have my Sidewinder from 1985. Everytime I get it out of the bag I have to adjust the truss rod and the pickups pick up mains hum to the extent its unplayable in a theatre. 🤣

 

Think it was £120 new. 

Lot of money in them days!

[MacDaddy]

6 minutes ago, TimR said:

 

I still have my Sidewinder from 1985. Everytime I get it out of the bag I have to adjust the truss rod and the pickups pick up mains hum to the extent its unplayable in a theatre. 🤣

 

Think it was £120 new. 

 

There was a free music magazine called Making Music, who absolutely loved the Marlin Sidewinders.

They must have been on the payroll 😉

[Linus27]

I think it's easy to find a decent bass for £1200. Take the Fender Vintera II Telecaster bass, it's a smidge over £1k and is an absolutely wonderful bass. For less money, the Squier 40th Anniversary basses are wonderful and can be had for less than £400. Second hand, you then have the choice of the Japanese Fender's for about £850 and US Fenders for under £1200.

 

My main bass is either a Fender Japan 62 RI Fretless Precision which cost me £850 or an Fender Japan 62 RI Fretless Jazz which cost about £600 back in the mid 80's. I also have a £800 Fender Mexico FSR Precision which is my main recording bass as it sounds the best. I also have a Fretless Stingray that cost me £1700 second hand and despite being great, I prefer my other 3 basses and I get regular compliments at gigs when I play them.

[Paolo85]

A few things that may or may not be if interest here. UK median wages have more than doubled since 2000. Adjusting for that, a £2000 bass in November last year would have been equivalent to paying £915 in January 2000. That is, if my calculations are right, which they may not be.

I was not in this country in 2000 but I understand inequalities have increased since. Still, £2000 basses are not aimed at those left behind given that probably 98% of the people who spend £2000 for a bass are not professionals and even most professionals would not be able to tell the difference between an expensive bass and my cheap PJ bitsa in the mix.

If we look at inflation, a £2000 bass in 2023 was equivalent to a £1100 bass in 2000, a £490 bass in 1980 and a £150 bass in 1970. 

According to this website https://www.vintageguitarandbass.com/fender/bass/Precision_timeline_1970s.php

 

a Fender Precision in 1970 would cost around 300 dollars Which I believe would have been around £120, though actual prices in the UK might have been way different from the US.

So I guess basses may not be extraordinarily expensive now even if we do not consider how good a £350 Squier can be these days.

Obviously, if somebody wants to buy a bass from 1970 or from a dead luthier that is not in production anymore instead of buying the current-day equivalent basses, then it becomes a matter of vintage erc.. we are basically talking luxury goods which like most luxury goods do not make much sense to me and the sky is the limit in terms of prices.

I personally do not understand the market for luxury goods very well. But I agree with those that say it is not a great investment. Fads come and go, ome may end up having to sell in a decade when people go back to thinking new=cool old=uncool. I mean, they may be a good investment as a very small part of a diversified portfolio, if one has resources. I don't know. Not sure they are good as in "let's put half of our savings in suspiciously expensive basses instead ofpension funds or a mortgage downpayments."

That is not to say that buying a fancy used bass thinking it may keep its value is not a good idea. I'd do it if I was longing for the bass and if the price was such that some losses would not put me into troule. IMHO and all

 

 

 

 

 

[adriansmith247]

5 hours ago, Bassfinger said:

What's the point of an expensive bass if you don't take it to gigs? An utter waste to play it solely at home.

 

Not only that, what do people think happens to basses at gigs? I've never suffered so much as a nick on any of mine.

some jazz gigs can get pretty wild though 😀

[tegs07]

58 minutes ago, Paolo85 said:

A few things that may or may not be if interest here. UK median wages have more than doubled since 2000. Adjusting for that, a £2000 bass in November last year would have been equivalent to paying £915 in January 2000. That is, if my calculations are right, which they may not be.

I was not in this country in 2000 but I understand inequalities have increased since. Still, £2000 basses are not aimed at those left behind given that probably 98% of the people who spend £2000 for a bass are not professionals and even most professionals would not be able to tell the difference between an expensive bass and my cheap PJ bitsa in the mix.

If we look at inflation, a £2000 bass in 2023 was equivalent to a £1100 bass in 2000, a £490 bass in 1980 and a £150 bass in 1970. 

According to this website https://www.vintageguitarandbass.com/fender/bass/Precision_timeline_1970s.php

 

a Fender Precision in 1970 would cost around 300 dollars Which I believe would have been around £120, though actual prices in the UK might have been way different from the US.

So I guess basses may not be extraordinarily expensive now even if we do not consider how good a £350 Squier can be these days.

Obviously, if somebody wants to buy a bass from 1970 or from a dead luthier that is not in production anymore instead of buying the current-day equivalent basses, then it becomes a matter of vintage erc.. we are basically talking luxury goods which like most luxury goods do not make much sense to me and the sky is the limit in terms of prices.

I personally do not understand the market for luxury goods very well. But I agree with those that say it is not a great investment. Fads come and go, ome may end up having to sell in a decade when people go back to thinking new=cool old=uncool. I mean, they may be a good investment as a very small part of a diversified portfolio, if one has resources. I don't know. Not sure they are good as in "let's put half of our savings in suspiciously expensive basses instead ofpension funds or a mortgage downpayments."

That is not to say that buying a fancy used bass thinking it may keep its value is not a good idea. I'd do it if I was longing for the bass and if the price was such that some losses would not put me into troule. IMHO and all

 

 

 

 

 

Good points.

I think there are some differences between serious collectors and vintage instruments though.

 

Serious collectors that pay £60K plus on an instrument as an “investment” are not regular joes who have to worry about whether to put the money into pensions or pay off the mortgage. I would hazard a guess that if they didn’t “invest” in the instrument the surplus income would be absorbed elsewhere in suits, cars, watches or up their nostrils!

 

Vintage is largely based around nostalgia and heart. There is no logic to it really and life is short so if you have the cash and it brings joy a few grand to buy something you always dreamed of owning in your youth may well be worth the “investment”.

 

The final investment is knowing that cash in the bank is being depleted at 5% a year (down from 10%) which is a huge chunk lost in 3/4 years. I had a few grand spare. Not serious cash but not enough to invest really and I knew it would do little in the bank so bought a few used basses. I’ve enjoyed them, they have increased in value a modest amount but I couldn’t buy them new now and the money would have done nothing in the bank.

Edited January 25 by tegs07

[OliverBlackman]

1 hour ago, Paolo85 said:

A few things that may or may not be if interest here. UK median wages have more than doubled since 2000.

 

Increased 46% according to statistics. It’s undeniable that the inequality gap has widened, and those with the extra disposable income have increased expenditure in luxury goods. This demand likely impacts instruments as they in reality still a luxury.

Edited January 25 by OliverBlackman

[Paolo85]

44 minutes ago, OliverBlackman said:

Increased 46% according to statistics. It’s undeniable that the inequality gap has widened, and those with the extra disposable income have increased expenditure in luxury goods. This demand likely impacts instruments as they in reality still a luxury.

I stand corrected. What more than doubled was average earnings, as per point 3 here https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/averageweeklyearningsingreatbritain/december2023#:~:text=Average weekly earnings (AWE) were,increased over the long term.

 

With growing inequality, median wages would have grown less. Still, without having read the footnotes, from the table here it looks to me growth for those was 87% (85% for full time employees)

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/earningsandworkinghours/datasets/ashe1997to2015selectedestimates

 

[TimR]

Mine has increased 350%.

 

These measurements are meaningless. 

 

You need to measure a like for like bass against the RPI 

 

1985 - 373

2000 - 671

2023 - 1472

 

My Charvel would be around £1400 at todays prices. 

 

Edited January 26 by TimR

[OliverBlackman]

8 hours ago, Paolo85 said:

With growing inequality, median wages would have grown less. Still, without having read the footnotes, from the table here it looks to me growth for those was 87% (85% for full time employees)

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/earningsandworkinghours/datasets/ashe1997to2015selectedestimates

 

No median would be the average that increases most from inequality. Still, not a discussion for this thread although I do believe that’s a reason why there’s a market for £5k+ basses.

[adriansmith247]

Gig fees haven't increased to match the rise in costs to musicians. In fact they have gone down in real terms as they have not even kept up with inflation

[WinterMute]

On 23/01/2024 at 15:34, chris_b said:

I've got a Bass Centre price list and a Warwick Thumb was over £1000 in 1989.

 

I bought my thumb 5 from Bass Centre in 1988, I paid £875 I think, no hard case. 

 

They were rare and exotic beasts back then, it didn't seem like a lot when new Wals and Alembics were a lot more.

 

 

Just seen on Reverb, an absolute steal... https://reverb.com/uk/item/78407511-gibson-eb6-john-entwistle-1961-original

Edited January 26 by WinterMute

[geoham]

Clearly prices have increased on lots of things recently, and lots of reasons for this.

 

However, thinking longer term... I think that basses are cheaper in real terms.
 

In 1999, I bought a Tanglewood Rebel 4K (my first bass purchase) for about £180. It was a great little bass, and seemed to be the best new bass I could get for my money then. However, I know that I can buy something of at least equal quality for less money than that today.

 

I upgraded it to a Fender Jazz Bass in 2003, a new standard MIM model. If I remember correctly, it cost me £425. I still gig it today!
Back then I was working at the bar in a night club, earning minimum wage at £4.20 / hour - so roughly 100x my gross hourly rate to buy the bass. Minimum wage today for someone aged 22 (as I was then) of £10.18, and a Fender Player Series Jazz is about £750  - someone in a similar position would need to work fewer hours to buy one today.
On a similar note, we used to charge £2.40 for a pint of lager then. I probably pay double that or  more in the city centre these days. The price of a MIM Jazz hasn't quite doubled in that time.

Going even further back... a Facebook friend of mine recently shared an old invoice for a Fender Precision purchased from McCormack's Music in Glasgow in 1979. It was £400. According to the Bank of England's calculator, that's about £1,880 when adjusted for inflation today. 

George

[jazzmanb]

Cheap basses are way better than when I started in 1979 

Pre Squier etc 

Only catalogue kay basses etc 

If you got the right bass in the 80s it's value has risen but it's not across the board . 

If I was skint I'd happily buy a £250 bass . 

[Dan Dare]

2 hours ago, jazzmanb said:

Cheap basses are way better than when I started in 1979 

Pre Squier etc 

Only catalogue kay basses etc 

If you got the right bass in the 80s it's value has risen but it's not across the board . 

If I was skint I'd happily buy a £250 bass . 

 

This. Budget instruments are extremely good for the money nowadays. When I started in the early 70s, they were rubbish. £250 today gets you a used instrument of the quality we could only dream about back then.

[tauzero]

On 24/01/2024 at 18:50, MacDaddy said:

 

Where's the line between "a decent bass for the price" and "a decent bass"?

 

It's the as-yet undefined point where doubling the amount of money spent on a bass no longer doubles the quality of the bass.

[tauzero]

On 25/01/2024 at 15:42, adriansmith247 said:

Who would take a £2000+ bass out on a gig? 

 

Janek Gwizdala. Victor Wooten. Me. That's for starters.

[tauzero]

On 25/01/2024 at 19:34, MacDaddy said:

 

There was a free music magazine called Making Music, who absolutely loved the Marlin Sidewinders.

They must have been on the payroll 😉

 

Weren't they available through one of the catalogues - Littlewoods perhaps? Maybe someone at Making Music had a parent who worked for Littlewoods.

[tauzero]

On 26/01/2024 at 08:03, OliverBlackman said:

No median would be the average that increases most from inequality. Still, not a discussion for this thread although I do believe that’s a reason why there’s a market for £5k+ basses.

 

No, median could even go down with inequality rising while mean increases. eg 10k, 10k, 15k, 15k, 1M. 15k is the median, 210k is the mean. Now this goes to 10k, 10k, 11k, 11k, 2M. The median is now 11k but the mean is 408,400, and inequality has risen.