New Keyboard Day... becomes New (Pre-Broken) Synth Day. Now New (Pre-Broken) Synth (pt. II)

[Lfalex v1.1]

The Argon 8x arrived yesterday. Seems to be fully functional. 

It's a bit of a monster.

Build quality of the body is beyond reproach. Less so the encoder controls, which feel too light and plasticky.

The modulation joystick is really rather good. Way better than the strips on the Hydra Explorer. Keyboard/bed is good, and the fact that the aftertouch isn't polyphonic isn't as much of a come- down as I'd expected.

Tempo control and arpeggiator control is much better implemented. 

Sounds less extreme and smoother than the previous attempt. 

In spite of my finding it LESS intuitive than everyone seems to think, I can see it growing on me.

Photos to follow in due course...

[rwillett]

Pics or it never happened 😊

[Lfalex v1.1]

 

There you go. Now updated to firmware V3.2..

Finding the Argon pretty good, but for a lack of decent "String" patches.

Guess I'll invest some [serious!] time trying to concoct some or take the easy way out and download some.  There's definitely a healthy supply of uploaded content for it.

 

It's frequently depicted being (physically) connected to a tablet/phone. The supplied cable covers PC and hopefully Mac, being USB B to USB A.

USB B to USB C or Lightning isn't in my cable bin, that's for sure!

 

There's still a place for the GK61, though. It has patches that a synth might struggle to replicate, plus it can loop percussion whilst still being played.

This in addition to the aforementioned speakers for quiet practice and its Bluetooth music streaming ability..

Edited March 24 by Lfalex v1.1

[Woodinblack]

USB A to USA C, USB A to Lightning are standard adaptors I have

[BigRedX]

Surely the whole point of buying a synth is that you create your own sounds?

 

I don't think that in the 40+ years I've been playing synths that I ever used a sound that wan't programmed by myself or another musician in my band. Sure there are plenty of impressive sounding patches that come ready loaded since user programmable memories first appeared, but no a single one of them has ever been of any use for any music I have created. For ever synth I have ever owned after noodling through the factory supplied sounds then next thing I have done is to set a patch up with a basic sound that I can use as a starting point for my own creations.

[Lfalex v1.1]

47 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

Surely the whole point of buying a synth is that you create your own?

 

...after noodling through the factory supplied sounds then next thing I have done is to set a patch up with a basic sound that I can use as a starting point for my own creations.

 

That's precisely what I have done so far. 

Chewed through 300 factory patches and found about 8 that I like.

Early this morning I set about creating a patch, but have no idea at all where to begin in terms of which waveform to start with. The Argon offers 2 mixable  waveforms with (I think) 16,129 x 16,129 variatons...

 

None of the stock patches seem to offer a valid starting point, so I figured I'd look elsewhere for something to give me some pointers.

 

[Woodinblack]

6 minutes ago, Lfalex v1.1 said:

Early this morning I set about creating a patch, but have no idea at all where to begin in terms of which waveform to start with. The Argon offers 2 mixable  waveforms with (I think) 16,129 x 16,129 variatons...

 

There are 160 wavetables, so not quite that many, although you can morph between pairs of wavetables

 

6 minutes ago, Lfalex v1.1 said:

None of the stock patches seem to offer a valid starting point, so I figured I'd look elsewhere for something to give me some pointers.

 

Press init patch and go from there.

 

This might help though:

 

[BigRedX]

The problem IMO with a lot of these complicated sound generation synths is that the subtleties that sound great when played solo quickly disappear once you start adding other instruments to the mix, and all that programming complexity becomes a distraction and hinderance to getting sounds that work in the context of the song.

 

In my case for the last two years the vast majority of synth sounds created for my band have been done using the very simple Retro Synth plug-in that comes with Logic. Most of the time I can get something close to what I need within 5 minutes and a further 10 minutes at a later date fine tuning it once the rest of the arrangement is in place.

[Lfalex v1.1]

@Woodinblack

I've already bookmarked that YT vid to watch when I have a moment...

 

Isn't there some other control that messes with waveform 1 and 2 to produce more variation? I thought so this morning at 0415h 🤣

 

@BigRedX As it is with hardware synth subtleties, so it is with bass FX and tonal subtleties.. "Lost in the mix"

Fortunately,  not an issue I'm likely to have any time soon.

Hasn't stopped me ploughing an hour into trying (an partly failing) to create a useable string voice, though..

I reckon another 3 hours and I'll get close. 

[Woodinblack]

Like anything, when you are used to it is easy enough. Any synth can dissapear into the mix, I mean it is easier than the DX yamaha range, and that managed to get itself on a lot of records

[BigRedX]

8 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

Like anything, when you are used to it is easy enough. Any synth can dissapear into the mix, I mean it is easier than the DX yamaha range, and that managed to get itself on a lot of records

 

Or like the DX7 it suffers from pre-set over-use. There's probably lots of DX7 sounds on records that you never spot as being DX7 because it's not one of the common presets like the Electric Piano. Of course it's far from the only one. Jump by Van Halen is the first preset on the OBXA and Wonderful Christmas time by Macca is a very slightly modified version of one of the CS80 presets to name just two.

 

Producers like SAW used to be in a race to get new synths on their recordings so that they had used all the "best" sounds before anyone else could.

[Woodinblack]

4 hours ago, BigRedX said:

Wonderful Christmas time by Macca is a very slightly modified version of one of the CS80 presets to name just two.

 

Worse than 2, when I went through the cherry audio GX80, which is a faithful recreation of the CS80 with some GX1 presets too, playing a chord with every single of of the original presets was a song I knew (and in the presets is the whole of blade runner too).

 

Presets are handy to give you an insight into what you can do with a thing, but shouldn't really be relied on as the only thing, unless thats what you want, in which case you would probably be better with a rom based thing - I have a DS61 and its beauty is that if you want a sound, you select a type (piano / organ / strings / wind / voice etc) and then select one of the presets - its not a synth and doesn't try to be, its for making known sounds. The argon isn't that, although when I want to synth anything, I always end up with the Waldorf Blofeld for hardware (or equator 2 on the mac).

[Lfalex v1.1]

I thought this thread had run its course. 

But it seems not.

The last 5 keys on the RHS of the keyboard are non-functional.

So I have a 56-key synth, not a 61.

Looks like this one's headed back to its packaging, too.

 

Pretty sick of this,  to be honest. 

Not very reliable things, are they?

Edited March 25 by Lfalex v1.1
Sp.

[rwillett]

"If it wasn't for bad luck, you'd have no luck at all..."

 

You appear to have a super power, attracting bad luck.

 

Hopefully next one is better, very poor from the vendor here. 

 

I won't say "good luck" as it appears to be pointless 

 

Rob

[Lfalex v1.1]

Thanks,  Rob.

 

It was different suppliers on each occasion. Bax (who were at fault) the first time.

The Argon was brand-new and factory sealed from Anderton's.

This isn't really their fault. It's "just" a QC thing.

 

I think I'm done with this business now.

I'll return this to Anderton's.

Can't see there being a replacement,  as it's all becoming a bit of a roller coaster.

 

That,  and the fact that my bank must think I'm running a money- laundering scheme using music retailers 🙄

Edited March 25 by Lfalex v1.1

[RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE]

Sorry to hear this . How annoying ! 
Quality control seems to be lacking these days . I have a moog grandmother , my first synth purchased a few months after its release .

About 18 months ago, the pitch wheel became loose and ineffective . My local and close friend who has quite a few old synths from the '80s fixed it for me . Moog were very helpful in telling me how to repair it . 
Then a couple of weeks ago, I noticed the input washer at the back fell off ! Thankfully I found it , as it never left my flat. 
It was made of plastic , not metal of course . 
 

When moog released the 'dark' version of the Grandmother, the pitch wheel looked different . I saw it up close in Absolute Music . 
I'd say they had a lot of issues with that . 
 

One other thing I find annoying , is the very very tiny usb sockets on some keyboards and effects pedals like the Arturia Keystep etc.

Plus those awful power supplies like on the moog Grandmother . 
 

Anyway , I hope things get sorted , and that you do continue your synth journey . Third time lucky and all that .

[rwillett]

53 minutes ago, Lfalex v1.1 said:

Thanks,  Rob.

 

It was different suppliers on each occasion. Bax (who were at fault) the first time.

The Argon was brand-new and factory sealed from Anderton's.

This isn't really their fault. It's "just" a QC thing.

 

I think I'm done with this business now.

I'll return this to Anderton's.

Can't see there being a replacement,  as it's all becoming a bit of a roller coaster.

 

That,  and the fact that my bank must think I'm running a money- laundering scheme using music retailers 🙄

 

For a brand new synth to be knackered from the factory is rubbish. Definite QC issues. I would suspect its been outsourced to China, built on a standard production line along with lots of other synths from different manufacturers, flashed with the Argon ROM, put a manufacturer specific case around it and boxed up. There's an awful lot of generic stuff and badge engineering that goes on.

 

I'd try once more and then give up, three's a charm and all that (no idea what that really means TBH).

Rob

[Lfalex v1.1]

7 hours ago, rwillett said:

 

I'd try once more and then give up, three's a charm and all that (no idea what that really means TBH).

 

Anderton's were really professional and helpful.  They've held their last one so I can do a 1 for 1 swap.

We're going to try the "new" one out in the shop to ensure it works..

 

Don't hold out much hope. I've caused 3 other electronic devices to fail in 2 days just by looking at them. 

[rwillett]

1 minute ago, Lfalex v1.1 said:

 

Anderton's were really professional and helpful.  They've held their last one so I can do a 1 for 1 swap.

We're going to try the "new" one out in the shop to ensure it works..

 

Don't hold out much hope. I've caused 3 other electronic devices to fail in 2 days just by looking at them. 

Keeping you away from my kit, though I have quite a few people I'd like you to meet....

[Lfalex v1.1]

Hopefully,  this is it.

Drove down to Guildford with my duff Argon. Anderton's were as good as their word. We tried the replacement out. It's already been flashed to v3.2, and has 400 completely different patches to the other one... Weird.

Nice to have those last 5 semitones of range working, too.

 

Excellent service from Anderton's.  

Everyone I dealt with was pleasant and helpful.

 

Was daunted by the 88-key synths/electric pianos on display. Where does one even put such a thing? 

 

Edited March 27 by Lfalex v1.1

[Lfalex v1.1]

Now digging deeper into various aspects of the Argon 8's functionality. 

 

A pleasing revelation;

It works perfectly with my 30 year-old Roland EV-5 expression pedal, which has sat unused in a drawer.

Was a bit of a pain to work out what format the Argon 8 was expecting (TRS/RTS, 1,2&3) and how to set the EV-5's own control to give an appropriate range. 

 

Now all I have to do is find out what is limitations are with regard to what it can be assigned to.....

[Woodinblack]

25 minutes ago, Lfalex v1.1 said:

Now all I have to do is find out what is limitations are with regard to what it can be assigned to.....

 

Expression can be assigned to anything, so if you just select EXPR in the modulation options you can then touch any control to assign it to there. Although obviously a large number of those options wouldn't be terribly useful but its nice to have the option.

[Lfalex v1.1]

@Woodinblack

 

I've yet to try more than one due to lack of time this AM!

I assigned it to oscillator modulation so it was easy to hear. 

Most of the functions are fairly immediately available via surface controls.

FX seems like an idea if it's an option- I suppose it would just govern wet/dry mix for the assigned slot?

Otherwise, "Spread" seems good, or even one of the wave tunings. I doubt my ability to land it at the right point for +/- 4ths, 5ths, Octave/Double octave intervals, though!

[Woodinblack]

I never found spread to be that wide an effect that I would want to modulate it while playing tbh - I would tend to put it on filter cutoff / blend or a->b algorithm sweep.

 

I just got a B Stock Cobalt 5, and have been spending time with that (few knobs downside, upside much less table!).

[Lfalex v1.1]

Frequency cut-off is a good assignment for an exp pedal.

 

Wave Tuning (for whichever has the greater hf content or is prevalent in the mix) is very effective. Insta-Vangelis!