Metallica: Some kind of Monster. Bass players.

[Vin Venal]

41 minutes ago, TimR said:

Are you guys expecting members of a Thrash Metal band to own kittens and spend their time shopping for soft furnishings?

This take is wild honestly. It's like putting lost prophets on when your mates are round and when they look at you funny being like "what you expect rock stars to be saints..."

[Vin Venal]

5 hours ago, Jackroadkill said:

 

Oh, now you're talking....  Kyuss with Cliff would have been amazing.

Yeah, cliff had groove, I could see that. That's the difference with Newsted for me, it isn't so much that he was a pick player, its that Cliff and Trujillo have groove, he was dead linear.

[Vin Venal]

4 minutes ago, Doctor J said:

 

It's mega wild to me that people are so quick to judge and libel people they've never met with no foundation 😉

I don't reckon I need to worry too much about libel in this case, as Hetfield hasn't even sued the woman who's on record saying she heard him call Ice T a n*****, which is astonishing given how litigious metallica are.

[Doctor J]

Which record?

[asingardenof]

1 hour ago, Doctor J said:

Which record?

This record: https://m.soundcloud.com/theafdshow/roberta-freeman-talks-one-in-a-million-race-and-james-hetfield-ep-201

 

(The relevant bit starts from about 24 minutes in)

[asingardenof]

1 hour ago, Bolo said:

That's obviously just the metal 'horns up' 🤘 but think what you want of it.

 

I'm not getting paid to defend some millionaires I've never met. 

It's a bit more than devil horns (watch from about 1:59:50) but I'm still more inclined to believe it's mocking rather than serious.

[bassist_lewis]

This is probably my favourite documentary ever. I'm a moderate Metallica fan (I prefer they early work), but I find the story told in this film fascinating. I don't agree with the OP that all they needed was another bass player; they got another bass player immediately after Cliff died and the mess we see is what resulted! To me, Lars and James are what you get when you have massive success very early in life: you believe your own b***s*** and can't see anything you do as wrong. They're fighting like 18 year old kids because they've never had to learn how to work with other people, and it seems James had A LOT of "stuff" he should have been working through rather than drinking and abandoning his family to go shoot bears in Russia. Kirk comes across as surprisingly reasonable the whole time, trying to bridge the gap between Lars and James and make the band work, as does Bob Rock.

To me the therapist gives them a lot of tools for communicating with each other. You can very clearly track how their language changes across the film: they're asking if they want to 'go deeper' on something rather than getting into a fight, and Lars even concedes his love of the name Frantic when others disagree with him. I also love the therapist's jumpers, they are absurd.

All the rich person stuff is hilarious to me. James driving his ridiculous Goth car in a knock off Wehrmacht helmet; Lars clearly being forced by his wife to sell his Basquiat painting(s) for millions of dollars; having drivers; Kirk with his California ranch and subscription to Rich Guy Magazine.

 

[ahpook]

I watched it, although I'm by no means a Metallica fan.

 

Quite difficult, I found.  A lot of the time I felt quite sorry for them.

Edited January 30 by ahpook

[TimR]

9 hours ago, Vin Venal said:

This take is wild honestly. It's like putting lost prophets on when your mates are round and when they look at you funny being like "what you expect rock stars to be saints..."

 

What about Motorhead and Lemmy? 

[Lozz196]

I shall give it a watch later on as this thread has intrigued me. Re the nazi stuff, I don`t know enough about Metallica to comment on them specifically but I do know that actions can be taken out of context, such as:

 

Me and my mates - all with shaved heads due to losing our hair - used to drink in a certain pub in Hemel at the start of Sat evenings, then walk to another later on. On the way was the Indian restaurant which we would be visiting after the pub. As we walked past the restaurant we would wave to the staff who would wave back. One day one of my mates offered the opinion that we should maybe step inside the restaurant and say hello rather than wave as to other passers by it could have been perceived as the skinheads were doing the nazi salute in protest against the Asians.

 

Sometimes things ain`t what they seem.

[Muzz]

I've watched that bit of the video, and that intro to Am I Evil? is definitely musically, let's say martial, and an adrenalised performer walking to it in that way for a couple of seconds can very easily be conflated without context into all sorts of personal belief systems...as Loz says above, sometimes things ain't what they seem - ask Roger Waters: lots of still images from his last tour could (and did in some places) be taken in isolation as proof positive he's a raving Nazi without the context of the song. Not to say he's a bloke without some iffy tendencies and sympathies*, but the Nazi thing is part of The Wall, and context is everything...

 

* And he's a cantankerous old git, tho the involuntary 'ooof' through the mic when he sat down at the piano did make me smile...

[RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE]

13 hours ago, SteveXFR said:

I love some of the early Metallica stuff but Black onwards is all bad. On the odd occasion they wrote good music, they ruined it with dreadful production. I honestly don't understand why they're still huge when there's so many other bands making much better metal music. It's about time Mastadon or Baroness too their place as hard rock/metal giants

Must admit , I'm a little embarrassed 😬to admit that I carried on seeing them and buying their stuff right up to the present album .

Having said that , I did enjoy both of the Death magnetic gigs at London's o2 ( one of those was £5 ticket which my friend managed to get and give me . No stageshow .) The last time I saw them was at the 02 on the hard wired tour . In all honesty , it was a really good gig .

That's the last time though . 
Regarding their releases ( black album onwards ) , they just got really patchy . They always preferred gigs than recording new stuff.

Incredibly lazy really ,and it shows. I only played the latest release once ., hard wired a couple of times . Did like death magnetic mostly. 
They'll always be huge , as they're the led zep of metal imho. I don't think that there are any bands in metal that have the continuity that they have . Maybe anthrax , but even they are not releasing  as much as they should be . 
I miss slayer , but even their later albums were patchy. A shame about the way they had to stop. Then again I'm not over obsessed about metal anymore . I prefer watching live gigs on you tube of obituary , kreator , testament etc . 
Prefer the comfort of my home these days 🙂

[Supernaut]

14 hours ago, SteveXFR said:

I love some of the early Metallica stuff but Black onwards is all bad. On the odd occasion they wrote good music, they ruined it with dreadful production. I honestly don't understand why they're still huge when there's so many other bands making much better metal music. It's about time Mastadon or Baroness too their place as hard rock/metal giants

Mastodon went downhill after Crack The Skye. Nothing good since then. 

[Bassassin]

41 minutes ago, Supernaut said:

Mastodon went downhill after Crack The Skye. Nothing good since then. 

100% agree - that was the album where it sounded like everything they were trying to do came together, & they've not come close since. I still listen out of hope/curiosity but I don't think I even made it halfway through their last album.

 

Metallica - watched SKOM when it was more current & the mess of a 'band' they were at the time helped explain the mess of an album St Anger was. By then I was only really vaguely interested - Justice had been the album that brought me back to metal at the end of the 80s but I gradually lost interest as they moved towards Black Album-era corporate rock bloat & became more bland. Summed up by a mate who'd been a fan since Kill 'Em All, after seeing them touring Load - "They should change their name to 'Licker' - because they're not f*ckin' metal any more!"

 

They've had a couple of moments since, I quite liked Death Magnetic as a near-sequel to Justice, with a few moments of proper hostility & inventiveness (almost like they were trying to make up for St Anger!), but subsequently it's hard not to conclude their hearts really haven't been in it for a long time.

 

Edited January 30 by Bassassin

[TimR]

Most of these heavy music musicians are well past retirement age and spend more time on the golf course complaining about the kids driving the golf carts into the water hazards. A far cry from when they were driving their Rolls Royces into swimming pools. 

 

At some point it doesn't make sense to do the things we used to do as teenagers any more. But what do you do if that's all you have ever done?

Edited January 30 by TimR

[RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE]

19 minutes ago, TimR said:

Most of these heavy music musicians are well past retirement age and spend more time on the golf course complaining about the kids driving the golf carts into the water hazards. A far cry from when they were driving their Rolls Royces into swimming pools. 

 

At some point it doesn't make sense to do the things we used to do as teenagers any more. But what do you do if that's all you have ever done?

True . Plus of course they have their  agents  and advisers who keep planning etc 

[TimR]

Just now, RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE said:

True . Plus of course they have their  agents  and advisers who keep planning etc 

 

That's the monster part. Imagine being the directors of a company where you're also the product. 

 

If you don't want to produce the product what happens to you, and your employees. 

 

Well, if you're multimillionaire and the company is worth millions, you pay everyone off and move on if you're sensible. But the pressure to keep the company running must be huge. 

[Doctor J]

Most heavy metal musicians never would have had realistic expectations of the fame and wealth the chosen few of them eventually achieved. Metallica were a genuine niche band until the very end of the 80's. The kind of success they eventually found would have been completely unthinkable when they were making their first four albums. When I first saw them on the AJFA tour, they were playing a 1500 capacity venue. When I last saw them on the Black album tour, they were playing an 8000 capacity venue. They were the exception, in the genre from which they originated. Megadeth were probably the next most commercially successful but they were not even close to what Metallica, as they became 'tallica, achieved. The rest of their peers never achieved commercial success at all and mostly broke up by the mid 90's. The point being, unlike a lot of genres where being commercially successful is a genuine prospect and probable aspiration when the band starts off, in Metal, outside of the pouffy hair stuff, that was completely unthinkable until the start of the 90's. Success would have come rapidly as a stranger and they were ill equipped to cope with all it entailed.

[ARGH]

I watched this a few times over the years and it is car crash, but the redeeming thing for me is the 'Dave' meeting, if only for the line when Dave says

 

"I wish James was here...(Pause)...I wish Cliff was here.." 

 

That bit hit hard. 

 

[ARGH]

1 hour ago, Doctor J said:

Most heavy metal musicians never would have had realistic expectations of the fame and wealth the chosen few of them eventually achieved. Metallica were a genuine niche band until the very end of the 80's. The kind of success they eventually found would have been completely unthinkable when they were making their first four albums. When I first saw them on the AJFA tour, they were playing a 1500 capacity venue. When I last saw them on the Black album tour, they were playing an 8000 capacity venue. They were the exception, in the genre from which they originated. Megadeth were probably the next most commercially successful but they were not even close to what Metallica, as they became 'tallica, achieved. The rest of their peers never achieved commercial success at all and mostly broke up by the mid 90's. The point being, unlike a lot of genres where being commercially successful is a genuine prospect and probable aspiration when the band starts off, in Metal, outside of the pouffy hair stuff, that was completely unthinkable until the start of the 90's. Success would have come rapidly as a stranger and they were ill equipped to cope with all it entailed.

Have to agree a bit, fashions aside, the big 4 survived, Anthrax probably dipping in sales the most, Slayer surviving on their reputation and live concerts, Megadeth like Tallica had a great back catalogue. Yet like everything in the music industry, the tastes and styles changed, they were the last stadium/Arena filling, extreme metal (Few remember how far out Thrash was until the 90s) bands until, Slipknot. Sadly the heavier bands that came afterwards at the time never broke through (Morbid Angel tried) and most of those bands have regular seasonal jobs (One thing a lot of people forget, or do not want to admit, about metal bands, day jobs). I don't think anyone in Death, Grind or Black metal, regardless of where it came from sold a million on one release, the big 4 did.

 

The second league bands still exist, and still can do a club tour (Testament being the largest) but it's a hobby really.

[Daz39]

4 hours ago, Supernaut said:

Mastodon went downhill after Crack The Skye. Nothing good since then. 

I like their ambition, but it's too 'noisy' to listen to without 100% focus - I can't commute to it and know which song is currently playing, for instance. It doesn't help that the drummer seems to play fills 75% of the time. He is very good at it though.

 

[SteveXFR]

4 hours ago, Supernaut said:

Mastodon went downhill after Crack The Skye. Nothing good since then. 

 

Crack the Sky was their peak but what they made after that was good as far as mainstream metal goes. I'd say they're still making better music than Metallica. 

[asingardenof]

9 minutes ago, SteveXFR said:

 

Crack the Sky was their peak but what they made after that was good as far as mainstream metal goes. I'd say they're still making better music than Metallica. 

Certainly a lot more interesting music than Metallica.

[NikNik]

On 28/01/2024 at 19:41, Cato said:

I think in many respects Newstead was the whipping boy of the band, the And Justice debacle aside I remember reading stories about how the other band members had 'hazed' him inwhat seems to have been a fairly brutal manner on his first tour with them.

 

Hetfield in particular seems to have deliberately prevented Newstead from having as much musical input as he wanted whilst also trying to block him from expressing  his creative side in another project. 

 

I think when he left the band almost imploded because, Hetfield who seems to have been a thoroughly unpleasant character for the first 20 years or so of Metallicas career  started directing his destructive and controlling behaviour at the remaining band members and they lacked Newsteads strength of character

 

 

I recall one about them squeezing a tube of Wasabi into a bowl and telling JN it was guacamole.

[asingardenof]

13 minutes ago, NikNik said:

I recall one about them squeezing a tube of Wasabi into a bowl and telling JN it was guacamole.

Better than a story I heard about Steve Jones doing something unspeakable to a sandwich Glen Matlock was about to eat.