A 3d printed bass guitar

[rwillett]

I'm looking forward to hearing the tone differences as well - One day ...

 

Next steps are:

 

1. Order some lighter strings. The E string is 3mm thick, my fender Jazz is 2.75mm, my Ibanez short scale 2.4mm and my fender Mustang 2.4mm. 3mm is 0.11in according my calculator.  A set of Rotosound lightweights are 0.03in, 0.05in, 0.065 and 0.08in.  https://www.rotosound.com/product/rs66la/ No idea of the tension that I have on the current strings but it feels a lot, mind you, my gut feelings have been rubbish so far. 0.08/0.11 = 72% of the thickness which is quite a lot.

 

2. Order some 3mm aluminium so that I can make a 15mm backbone from the 12mm and the 3mm. I'm wondering if two plates making 15mm sounds different to 1x15mm,

 

3. Order some 15mm aluminium to check if that works much better.

 

4. Check on 7000 series grade aluminium. Anything that has "aerospace" attached to it will not be cheap, even if I am.

 

5. Readjust my pillar drill so I can clean the workstop. Swarf and cuuting fluid is horrible, already used the "kitchen" dustpan and brush and the CFO was not happy with what I brought back, so a new dustpan needed now <sigh>.

 

6. Check on steel plate as the next step if I can't get aluminium to stop bending.

 

Rob

[tauzero]

3 hours ago, rwillett said:

Swarf and cuuting fluid is horrible, already used the "kitchen" dustpan and brush and the CFO was not happy with what I brought back, so a new dustpan needed now <sigh>.

 

https://www.screwfix.com/p/titan-1300w-16ltr-wet-dry-vacuum-220-240v/826kh

 

Use only for the designated purpose. This sucks harder than [redacted] so don't go winding up in A&E in an embarrassing position.

[rwillett]

Not sure I need something that sucks quite as well, unclear as to how A&E comes into this....?

[rwillett]

Now that the mule has a 12mm aluminium backbone in, that has moved the neck into a far, far better position and it suddenly feels better to play, even if it does have tug ship cables for strings. Some lighter strings are on order as well as some more aluminium. If that doesn't work, steel starts to become the option.

 

Am starting to think about mounting pickups and best practises. I think I have two options,

1. I can mount the pickups downwards on the body of the guitar. I considered this in the design and have a large number of embedded nuts into which I can design a sledge to hold the pickups in exactly the right place. I can easily put the sledge and pickups in any position and move it around.
    
2. I can design a basket to hold the pickups and mount them to the pickguard, this is how I did my six string. So I hang them (shooting is far too good for them).

I notice that most of the bass pickups have quite stiff foam on the bottom, sometime along with springs, so I am assuming that mounting them to the body is the preferred method. I have no preference to be honest. As vertical space is limited, I would probably remove the foam and design a slightly more complex adapter that is more adjustable, I can suspend othem or fix them.

 

I can't find anything that indicates what best practise is. If anybody has views (and can explain why they have views) on whats good, I'm happy to listen.  It might well be that suspending them from the pickguard allows them to resonate or some other reason I know nothing of.

 

Once I have finished my guitar pickup winder, on hold as I need to get this bass done, I will replace whatever that goes in with something else, or I might do a three way pickup set. Just got a few five way Fender type switches off eBay for 0.99p and might try to use a multi-coil option

 

Any help or direction welcomed.

 

Rob

[Si600]

8 hours ago, rwillett said:

5. Readjust my pillar drill so I can clean the workstop. Swarf and cuuting fluid is horrible, already used the "kitchen" dustpan and brush and the CFO was not happy with what I brought back, so a new dustpan needed now <sigh>.

Do you need suds with aluminium? I wouldn't have bothered, but then, I haven't built submarines for BAE Systems.

[rwillett]

My knowledge of cutting aluminum is zero so assumed I needed cutting fluid. I wasn't sure so tried it. Might now stop using it and will see what happens. 

 

My experience at BAE was helping the project management team. My knowledge of building nuclear attack submarines and how to speed delivery up is a little limited, IBM sold me in as an expert and so I had to bullshit rather a lot. 

 

Thankfully I got E-Coli and escaped before I was discovered. Somewhat extreme I know but it was worth it not to go back to Barrow. 

[Aidan63]

cutting fluid saves your tools from wearing out prematurely, and can make cheap tools (aren't they all now) actually useable - damp swarf is also less mobile so you get fewer bits in your clothes etc...pricking you, or being spread around the house, in your, the kids, or the pets skin

[tauzero]

7 hours ago, rwillett said:

Not sure I need something that sucks quite as well, unclear as to how A&E comes into this....?

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1968092/pdf/brmedj02925-0058.pdf

[rwillett]

There's a world out there that I know nothing about. That article is from before I was even born

[rwillett]

Does anybody have any views on mounting pickups to the body or pickguard?

 

Am about to design something to hold the pickups and I think I have two options,

1. I can mount the pickups downwards on the body of the guitar. I considered this in the design and have a large number of embedded nuts into which I can design a sledge to hold the pickups in exactly the right place. I can easily put the sledge and pickups in any position and move it around
   OR
2. I can design a basket to hold the pickups and mount them to the pickguard, this is how I did my six string. So I hang them (shooting is far too good for them).

I notice that most of the bass pickups have quite stiff foam on the bottom, sometime along with springs, so I am assuming that mounting them to the body is the preferred method. I have no preference to be honest. As vertical space is limited, I would probably remove the foam and design a slightly more complex adapter that is more adjustable, I can suspend othem or fix them.

 

Ant guidance welcomed.

 

Thanks

 

Rob

[MichaelDean]

Guitar pickups tend to have threaded mounting holes. I don't think bass pickups tend to do that, so you'd need some way of fastening a nut to the underside or tap a thread into the bass pickup.

 

If you can engineer something that works, I'd say go with whatever seems like the smallest headache!

[rwillett]

Currently I'm planning to hang the pickup from the pickguard with foam undeneath to dampen it. The foam is optional.

 

This is rather overengineered as I think it through. This is a case that a pickup goes in, so the smaller lugs hold it in place, the larger lugs screw through the pickguard into a captive m2.5 nut in the large lugs. A spring goes between the large lug and the pickguard a la Stratocaster.

 

 

And here it is cross section

 

Edited March 20 by rwillett

[MichaelDean]

1 hour ago, rwillett said:

Currently I'm planning to hang the pickup from the pickguard with foam undeneath to dampen it. The foam is optional.

 

This is rather overengineered as I think it through. This is a case that a pickup goes in, so the smaller lugs hold it in place, the larger lugs screw through the pickguard into a captive m2.5 nut in the large lugs. A spring goes between the large lug and the pickguard a la Stratocaster.

 

 

And here it is cross section

 

It looks really neat and tidy though. I like it!

[Richard R]

My thoughts are that if you hang the pickup from the pickguard then it might vibrate independently of the strings and body unless the pickguard is incredibly stiff. This isn't what you want at all as that could create a signal even if the strings are still and muted, and wluld definitely add to the signal when playing, so you would want to use foam to dampen that. Mounting to the body would avoid the problem.

 

Maybe it's insignificant,  I don't know. 

[rwillett]

Its' a lot easier hanging it rather than bolting down. I'm going to try that first and see what it sounds like. I can make a sledge but thats more complex and I still have to make the pickguard to fit.

 

This is the first print draft of the case to check for fit, are the spring lugs right, does the pickup fit snugly.

 

 

There's a little bit of play of the pickup inside the case, but a thin 1mm foam layer will fix that, the top of the pickup case looks great, but would benefit from a chamfer on the edges. Can't find my springs to see if they fit on the wider lugs though

 

I think the neck and bridge versions are different sizes as the strings are slightly wider at the end. I think this is the bridge pickup, but since I can't find the otehr one, probably run away with the springs, not 100% sure.

 

Rob

 

 

[JPJ]

On 18/03/2024 at 18:47, rwillett said:

My knowledge of cutting aluminum is zero so assumed I needed cutting fluid. I wasn't sure so tried it. Might now stop using it and will see what happens. 

 

My experience at BAE was helping the project management team. My knowledge of building nuclear attack submarines and how to speed delivery up is a little limited, IBM sold me in as an expert and so I had to bullshit rather a lot. 

 

Thankfully I got E-Coli and escaped before I was discovered. Somewhat extreme I know but it was worth it not to go back to Barrow. 

Having worked at BAE in Barrow many moons ago, I would not be surprised if it was the source of the E-Coli 😂

Edited March 21 by JPJ

[rwillett]

3 minutes ago, JPJ said:

Having worked at BAE in Barrow many moons ago, I would not be surprised if it was the source of the E-Coli 😂

 

I hated the place. If you weren't 3rd or 4th generation there, you couldn't do anything. I'd arrange meetings to try and work out what to do and how to improve things, and they'd tell me to F'off to my face and go back to reading a book. They kept using the name Vickers rather than BAE. When each sub was in the last few years of a build, work would slow down until the next contract was awarded. Each sub was built one at a time and took circa 11 years. I absolutely loathed the place. The train journey from Lancaster was lovely, but as it pulled into Barrow, my heart would sink.

 

My only regret was not catching E-Coli earlier. I almost died but it was worth it.

[JPJ]

Just now, rwillett said:

 

I hated the place. If you weren't 3rd or 4th generation there, you couldn't do anything. I'd arrange meetings to try and work out what to do and how to improve things, and they'd tell me to F'off to my face and go back to reading a book. They kept using the name Vickers rather than BAE. When each sub was in the last few years of a build, work would slow down until the next contract was awarded. Each sub was built one at a time and took circa 11 years. I absolutely loathed the place. The train journey from Lancaster was lovely, but as it pulled into Barrow, my heart would sink.

 

My only regret was not catching E-Coli earlier. I almost died but it was worth it.

I arrived there to commission some PAU’s built for the then new North Morecambe Bay gas terminal. I came from offshore with a very ‘can do’ mindset. It quickly became apparent the reverse was true in that ‘shipyard’. After a month of achieving nothing we shipped the PAU’s to site and commissioned/rebuilt them there 😤

[rwillett]

Just now, JPJ said:

I arrived there to commission some PAU’s built for the then new North Morecambe Bay gas terminal. I came from offshore with a very ‘can do’ mindset. It quickly became apparent the reverse was true in that ‘shipyard’. After a month of achieving nothing we shipped the PAU’s to site and commissioned/rebuilt them there 😤

 

Yep, sounds about right.

[rwillett]

A busy early evening with 410mm x 80mm x 15mm of aluminium, a 3.5mm drill, a 4.5mm drill, a countersink, a pillar drill, some cutting fluid and some wire wool has produced this. I'm rather pleased and smug, so clearly something is going to go wrong now

 

 

 

This is the new backbone, 15mm vs 12mm, same width and 10mm longer. Weighs 1.2Kg which is more than I thought.This puts the body weight around 2.4Kg without electrics and bridge, so I'm in the right weight area.

 

The surface scratching between the second and thrird rows of holes can't be seen when I look at it. Odd. This may get anodised or may not. I was fooling about with anodising some years ago, and I do have a rather nice 30A PSU I could use, but not yet

 

This backbone is now on the mule and it doesn't bend very much. Possibly 0.2mm but not even sure about that. Given I'm using tug boat cables for strings, I'm happy. I have a set of low tension strings to go on as well but for the moment I'll stick with what I have.

 

Now I can get on with setting the dammed thing up and not worry about flex. I can also get on with printing the rest of the body thats been on hold until I knew the backbone height. Everything is linked together and as I change one thing, something else gets changed as well.

 

[tauzero]

On 20/03/2024 at 13:19, rwillett said:

Ant guidance welcomed.

 

An ant writes: I don't think there is any sonic advantage to either method - none of my basses have pickguards and the pickups all work fine, OTOH Precisions are well thought of for some reason and hanging the pickup off the pickguard doesn't seem to harm their sound. Have you considered a sliding pickup, a la Gibson Grabber or Westone Rail? Perhaps run a length of 2020 Al extrusion up each side with T-nuts for the pickup to secure to and star knob bolts to allow easy moving and securing in position.

[rwillett]

Thanks for the info. 

 

I have considered a sliding rail and rejected it as unwieldy at least for me to make. I didn't think of 2020 ally extrusion though, I thought of metal rods. 

 

What I did do instead, is embed a load of nuts in the middle of the guitar that I can easily screw pickups into using a mounting mechanism I have yet to design but am confident I can 😉

 

The pillars that mount/support the pickguard can also be set anywhere so I could put pickups anywhere from the bridge to the neck. Three pickups would also be feasible. 

 

So I can use hanging from pickguard and/or bolting to body both at the same time if needed. I'm.trying the hanging method first but will ponder on a movable sledge as well

 

Thanks

 

Rob

[rwillett]

Here's the base with just the holes for attachments

 

 

and in cross section

 

 

The square holes are the recesses for nuts. The ones in pairs in the middle attach the aluminium backbone. There's a lot as there's a lot of stress and at the end of the day, this is 3d printed.

 

The square holes on the edges are the possible mounting holes for pickups AND at the back for the bridge adapter.  I have never used them as the six string had suspended pickups and at the moment, the bass guitar has suspended pickups or it will when I find the all of the pickups

 

The rectileaner holes with an access hole are used as mounting holes to attach the sides of the guitar which are then glued. This is a quick and easy way to ensure that the pieces exactly align. 0.5mm out is easily noticable. This gets it down to 0.1mm (or better).

 

Just had a quick look for 10mmx10mm extruded ally and found this dutch site https://www.makerbeam.com/makerbeam-900mm-1p-clear-makerbeam.html 20mmx20mm is far too big and I simply have no space. 10mmx10mm might work, but would require some significant thinking and re design work. Even 10x10mm would be difficult to hide, but if I didn't hide it and made it a feature that might be interesting. 

 

However after saying all that, a Lloyds type building where all the plumbing is on show outside comes to mind. Perhaps thats the style for headless bass version...?  Highly functional, open spaces, very adapatable?

 

I'm going to let that thought simmer for a few weeks.

 

Rob

 

[Aidan63]

11 hours ago, tauzero said:

 

An ant writes: I don't think there is any sonic advantage to either method - none of my basses have pickguards and the pickups all work fine, OTOH Precisions are well thought of for some reason and hanging the pickup off the pickguard doesn't seem to harm their sound. Have you considered a sliding pickup, a la Gibson Grabber or Westone Rail? Perhaps run a length of 2020 Al extrusion up each side with T-nuts for the pickup to secure to and star knob bolts to allow easy moving and securing in position.

I think you mean Mustang not Precision bass, PB has the pickups sat on foam with height adjusted by wood screw into body, the foam is pushing the pickup away from the back of the body, the screw is pushing the pickup cover, and hence the pickup, down towards the body. Mustang bass the pickups are hung from the pickguard with springs (or rubber tubing) over the machine screws between the back of the guard and the top of the pick up cover so by adjusting the length of the machine screw you adjust the height of the pickup relative to the pick guard.

Edited March 22 by Aidan63
spelling sausage fingers

[rwillett]

I've been tweaking various bits to try and make sure it's tunable and that I don't fix into the design, things that are wrong. I've printed a few neck pockets, adjusted the height slightly so that when I follow the tuning guide that @SamIAm posted three pages earlier.

 

The bass plays well in the lower frets but I still feel the strings are too high when I get to the dusty end of the neck. However I discovered that small changes in the truss rod do work, so I'm a lot happier. I feel that I might be getting to the stage where I'm tweaking for tweaking sake and not actually progressing the build.

 

I have all the bits printed now and am focussing on the pickups and mounting them. I spent a few days messing around with body mounting the pickups but the height limitations of the pickup area means this is hard. I'm playing with a few mm here and there. This is due to three simple measurements, the aluminium backbone 15mm, the printed central spine, 10mm, and the maximum depth of the body 44mm. This gives me a depth 19mm, plus the height from the top of the body to the strings, in which to mount a pickup. Its hard work to design a pickup that connects to the body securely but also has enough movement to lower and raise as needed. So I'm now going back to mounting it on the pickguard and will (possibly) use some lightweight foam to dampen it.  I may well steal the design from my six string to do all of this

 

This means I'm now into getting the control panel fitted using a Squier set of pots and pickups just to get things going. I have other ideas for the control panel, but I want to get it going first before the mad ideas come into play.  So things to do now:

 

1.  Design a functional pickguard for the body.

2.  Design a functional pickguard for the control panel. This means I'm going to have to glue things together <shock horror>.

3.  Put the low tension strings on to replace the tug boat strings.

 

Thanks

Rob

Edited March 27 by rwillett