rwillett Posted February 22 Author Share Posted February 22 (edited) Ok, I give in, what is the secret to stringing a Hip Shot tuner with a slot in the top? Every bass I have has a hole in the middle, I run the string through the middle and I turn the key and it tightens and thats it. I cannot get the strings to stay in the Hip shot tuner slot. Whats the magic incantation one needs to chant whilst doing this? Do I need to sacrifice something? A small plectrum or something? I've searched t'internet for the last few hours and if I see one more video of a pompous w**ker spending 20 minutes pontificating about his greatest and latest modification to his bass I will scream. I do not need to hear your life story, I am not interested in the delivery and the grand opening of a cardboard box to film the contents, I have seen tissue paper before, this is not the birth of a god. If you are going to make a video, have the common sense to learn how to edit it to be concise. Perhaps remove the bits where you ramble, where you drool or just randomly look into space. Watching most of these videos is like reading Dickens, a man who was paid by the word, and by god, can't you tell when it takes 12 pages for him to turn the handle on a door. These videographers must be paid by the second. Rant off. Can someone point me to how to string a bass with a slot in the tuner, something simple, something short and something that doesn't encourage me to go postal. Many thanks Rob Edited February 22 by rwillett 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnH89 Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 Hipshots that I have used have a hole in the middle . Just cut string 4in or two tuners past the one you want , bend the last 1/2 at 90 degrees , insert in hole , tune to pitch . I may be missing something ................ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwillett Posted February 23 Author Share Posted February 23 8 hours ago, JohnH89 said: Hipshots that I have used have a hole in the middle . Just cut string 4in or two tuners past the one you want , bend the last 1/2 at 90 degrees , insert in hole , tune to pitch . I may be missing something ................ John Thank you, a simple explanation that has eluded a large number of tossers on YouTube. Let me know if you need anything 3d printed. Always happy to help. Best wishes Rob 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 Looks great Rob, and a very very interesting exercise in using new technology...I'm sitting on a sofa scattered with popcorn awaiting the results under, erm, tension... 🙂 The design aesthetic would to me suit a headless based around a certain carbon-fibe/graphite-centred design from the UK but hey, that's just me. And now the inevitable Basschat question: what sort of weight is the body (I know there's more to add) at the moment? PS When I'm putting strings on a bass with a bridge slot that's reluctant to hold the string in place when slack, I follow JohnH's method for the first turn on the peg/post, then put the ball end in the slot and use my right hand to lift the string for some tension under winding (near the nut, using my right thumb to keep the string low around the tuning peg/post) and wind until there's enough tension to keep the ball end in the tuner slot. Sounds awkward, but it's pretty simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 17 hours ago, Richard R said: That looks great! The thinnest of black plastic veneer on the headstock would complete the look. I confidently expect it to sound good too 👍 BUT IT WOULD NOT BE A FENDER IF YOU DID THAT!!!!!!!!!!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwillett Posted February 23 Author Share Posted February 23 20 minutes ago, Muzz said: Looks great Rob, and a very very interesting exercise in using new technology...I'm sitting on a sofa scattered with popcorn awaiting the results under, erm, tension... 🙂 The design aesthetic would to me suit a headless based around a certain carbon-fibe/graphite-centred design from the UK but hey, that's just me. And now the inevitable Basschat question: what sort of weight is the body (I know there's more to add) at the moment? PS When I'm putting strings on a bass with a bridge slot that's reluctant to hold the string in place when slack, I follow JohnH's method for the first turn on the peg/post, then put the ball end in the slot and use my right hand to lift the string for some tension under winding (near the nut, using my right thumb to keep the string low around the tuning peg/post) and wind until there's enough tension to keep the ball end in the tuner slot. Sounds awkward, but it's pretty simple. @Muzz Thanks for the comments. I am assuming that you mean a Steinberger but my knowledge around this sort of tech is a bit limited. I think you are after something like this. The neck fits on the right. The bridge is also completely wrong but it shows the aim. I do have headless bass bits from ABM (thats expensive stuff), both at the bridge end and the end of the neck. I do have two other bass necks I can use. I am not cutting the Fender neck down, sorry. I do have another design idea for the headless version which might be next after this one. It may resemble the headless Westone bass from the 80's. Not because I liked it, but I came up with a similar idea. The weight of the body with no hardware added is 1.3KG I've now strung the bass guitar up to see if it breaks. Thanks to @JohnH89 I'll post a picture later one way or another, hopefully with the guitar still in one piece. Thanks Rob 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwillett Posted February 23 Author Share Posted February 23 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Owen said: BUT IT WOULD NOT BE A FENDER IF YOU DID THAT!!!!!!!!!!!! Very little of this is a Fender, the neck and possibly the bridge, not that sure about the bridge TBH though. I wasn't particularly looking for a Fender neck, but this one feels nice and has a very nice weathered and heavily used look, which kinda fits with the industrial look. It was also dead cheap Rob Edited February 23 by rwillett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnH89 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 (edited) If you ever are tempted to go for a headless , message me as I have a Nova headless bridge and headpiece that is no longer being used . It is a marvellous design by a member on here @Andre_Passini. I am happy to donate to the right cause . There may even be a neck in it for you .... The bass is looking spot on by the way . 😀 Edited February 23 by JohnH89 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwillett Posted February 23 Author Share Posted February 23 4 minutes ago, JohnH89 said: If you ever are tempted to go for a headless , message me as I have a Nova headless bridge and headpiece that is no longer being used . It is a marvellous design by a member on here @Andre_Passini. I am happy to donate to the right cause . There may even be a neck in it for you .... The bass is looking spot on by the way . 😀 John Thats very kind of you to offer the parts. I will be making a headless bass at some time. I'm not 100% certain exactly when but in the next few months certainly. Long term plans are: 1. Finish this bass off. It's a prototype but a lot better than my first six string prototype. Its strung and tuned and I'm leaving it to see what happens. The strings are the cheapest I could find on Amazon at £7 a set. The action might be a little high at 10mm as well Its not been setup at all and I just want to see if the backbone holds out or it breaks in two or more pieces. 2. Sort out the electrics, I was intending to use my own bass pickups that I'd wound, but I'm not there yet, see point 3. 3. Finish the guitar winder off. Thats stalled as paid work has got in the way. I'm still writing code and need a few solid sessions to get it done. 4. Decide if this bass is going to be coated in epoxy to smooth it out and make it look a little more professional. This does depend on the bass being in a single piece, which at the moment is up in the air or rather leaning against my desk. 5. Get the NW Bass Bash sorted out and do a little promotion on it (hint hint) to get as many people to come as possible. 6. Think a bit more about the design of the the headless. This is ongoing TBH. Trying to work out the asthetic is important, I could make it very, very industrial with stainless steel pipes or it could go very organic or it might go in a very different direction. Ultimately the middle will have to look something like this as you need a neck, you need to put pickups on and you need to have some sort of bridge mechanism. Also I have to keep earning money doing real and paid work. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnH89 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 No pressure mate . Let me know when/if you get round to it .👍 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbacco Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 On 01/02/2024 at 15:59, rwillett said: @Aidan63 Simply because I have some very nice 15mm plywood and I don't have anything else. Wouldn't recognise what oak or any other hardwood even looks like. My woodworking skills are slightly less than a new born baby squirrel, I suppose I could bite it to get it to shape. One option might be to fill some of the voids with a hard wood, but that requires me to make something to fit. See above. If it's on a computer, great, if it requires manual dexterity, I'm dead in the water. Rob OSB floor approves it! hahaah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwillett Posted February 27 Author Share Posted February 27 Not done much of an update for a few days as work has got in the way. I found a design issue in the way I'd used Fusion 360 and unpicking it took a long time. In the end I rolled back the design history, fixed it and then spent a long time fixing the issues as I rolled forward. In the end, I used the time to fix the issue AND to make the guitar a lot simpler to print. As I was struggling with PETG warping, I used 3dLac to hopefully adhere the corners down an keep them down. Even reducing the size, cleaning the bed, using 3dLac spray, I was still getting a tiny bit of lift on the pointy outside corners. In the end I put a 5mm brim on and 3DLac and that seems to have solved the issue. The downside now is that I have to remove the brim, but a deburr tool does that very well. Here's a video of somebody testing it out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-lD_NbTpOo So now I have eight pieces to print. Six are no intervention printing, so kick them off at any time and they print through to the end, no staying up until 01:30 to embed nuts. Two do require nuts but I can't change that. I've also made the plywood backbone wider, simply because I can. That was the design issue before. When I changed the width of the plywood backbone, the whole design blew up in a big way. The older version with slightly narrower plywood has shown that the guitar doesn't bend with "normal" bass strings, so thats one milestone achieved. I have all the control bits now, including decent bass strings, so push on now to get it all printed. Another 4-5 days to finish the printing off Rob 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwillett Posted February 29 Author Share Posted February 29 (edited) This is half way in printing the part of the guitar where the bass bridge will go. It's 27 hours long and so far its printed 1/3 of the wall height and an awful lot of infill to support the cross beam. The support in this print is organic support. I normally use a hexacomb support and make the middle of each support structure as wide as I can but not too wide, between 5-6mm. However I find that it leaves a horrible pattern on the underside when I cut the supports away. So spent a few days testing organic supports which are tree-like and seem to be slightly randomised. It turns out these are a lot easier to remove and the finish is quite nice with a mottled effect. This is the model in PrusaSlicer The underside of the model using hexacomb supports, this is the best I could do. This surface is hidden but I always hated it as it looked like garbage. and with organic supports, whilst it is slightly rough, its not ugly like the hexacomb support above. As I'm printing at a much higher quality and infill, this printing takes a long time so am contemplating a 3rd Prusa to speed things up. Not sure what the CFO would say, Rob Edited February 29 by rwillett 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnH89 Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 I have a very good idea what mine would say 😁 . But not in polite company . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwillett Posted March 3 Author Share Posted March 3 As t'other half is away, I've been looking at using XTC-3D as a coating for the guitars. Still not going to melt lead though... I've put quite a lot of effort into improving the physical appearance of the guitar straight off the printer and they look an awful lot better. However I did want to try epoxy coating bits to see what it looks like. All of the guitar bits on the island above are things that didn't work out so not touching good bits yet. First thoughts are: 1. A little goes a long way. I was working with 5g of the main ingredient and 2g of the additive and it did a lot. 2. It takes a long time to dry unless the temperature is above 22c. Three hours later it was still tacky at 16c. 3. The finish seems to have little bits in it. It's a bit like when you put a screen protector on your phone and get dust underneath. I didn't clean the parts but they weren't that dusty so not sure what went wrong. Not particularly impressed at the moment. 4. I have some black colouring to put in the epocy as well to see how that works on filler. That's today's experiment. So in summary, 1 out of 5 at the moment. Rob 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwillett Posted March 7 Author Share Posted March 7 (edited) I took the dog for a long walk on Sunday and decided to make some changes to the bass guitar design as: 1. I can reduce the printing time by around 20+ hours. I thought about how to build it slightly differently, reduce the support printing which takes approx 20+ hours (coincidence, I think not), simplify how I do it and make my life easier. if I ever print this again, it'll be quicker and easier. For the developers here, I've refactored a load of plastic bits (code). 2. I had a long walk with the dog so had chance to think. I use walks to plan things like this as I get 2-3 hours of uninterrupted "me+dog" time. I do get interrupted as the dog wants me to throw sticks for him, but you know what I mean. So I've spent the last week redesigning, simplifying and reprinting stuff out. I've now done all of the printing but before I start assembling I want to check all the dimensions and how the neck relates to the bridge, heights of everything. Whilst I can easily print spacers and put them under the neck and bridge, I'd rather spend time and get it right as close to first time as I can. So I've made myself a little test rig using the bits I have, and am trying out the bits and the relationships between them. The neck module had the hook strap built in so I used it as-is. Apart from that, it's quite a minimal bass. mmm...Interesting but thats for another day. I'm looking around for a decent set of instructions about how to set this up. I don't have factory measurements, but it's a Fender not gender Jazz neck and I have used my Fender Jazz as the basis, but it's not really a Jazz now. There's so many people talking about how to do it, I have no idea what is the right approach and would welcome somebody pointing me to a sensible set of basic instructions I can follow. My big worry is that the neck is at the wrong height but I'm not sure how I can tell. So any pointers to really good guides oreasy to follow suggestions for a muppet like myself, very welcome. Thanks Rob Edited March 7 by rwillett 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamIAm Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 For setup I keep going back to this set of 4 videos Sam x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwillett Posted March 8 Author Share Posted March 8 Thanks. Watched the first one yesterday and will watch the other today. 3/16" Allen key on order as all mt tools are metric. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwillett Posted March 10 Author Share Posted March 10 After building all the parts for a new bass, and assembling, a big problem has come up. The 15mm plywood backbone is not strong enough and bends, only 1-2 mm, but enough. Not sure why this wasn't spotted before and am wondering if the latest batch of plywood is different to my previous batch. However its noticable so thats a no go. Am now reading up "modulus of elasticty" to try and work out how stiff plywood is and looking at making a composite of plywood and alumium plate or going to all aluminium for a backbone. If I do this, I'll need a pillar drill to get proper holes, which I was trying to avoid buying. Jeff Bozos will be loving this Bit of a bummer but hey ho, I'm feeling good after the England game yesterday so will just have to bite the bullett. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si600 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 Hang fire on giving Jeff Bozo more money and see what's in the locality on ebay. You may be able to pick up an old pillar drill which if you get it right will be more substantial and better quality than a new bbot ones online. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard R Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 Or maybe talk to a timber merchant and see what they have as offcuts you can test with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwillett Posted March 10 Author Share Posted March 10 3 hours ago, Si600 said: Hang fire on giving Jeff Bozo more money and see what's in the locality on ebay. You may be able to pick up an old pillar drill which if you get it right will be more substantial and better quality than a new bbot ones online. To be honest, I've been looking for a long time, > 6 months, for a pillar drill locally on eBay and nothing within 50 miles at a sensible price. A lot of old floor standing ones that would probably work well, but too big for me to get back. I'm going to order some aluminium flat bar 60mm by 6mm by 400mm and try and see how accurately I can drill it with a decent hand drill and if that doesn't work, I'll get a pillar drill. 2 hours ago, Richard R said: Or maybe talk to a timber merchant and see what they have as offcuts you can test with? Not many timber merchants near me, the 15mm plywood was decent, worked well on the guitar, but not quite strong enough for the bass. I'll do some calculations later and work out what 6mm aluminium is equivalent to. Rob 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 9 hours ago, rwillett said: To be honest, I've been looking for a long time, > 6 months, for a pillar drill locally on eBay and nothing within 50 miles at a sensible price. A lot of old floor standing ones that would probably work well, but too big for me to get back. I'm going to order some aluminium flat bar 60mm by 6mm by 400mm and try and see how accurately I can drill it with a decent hand drill and if that doesn't work, I'll get a pillar drill. Have you considered box section rather than bar? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwillett Posted March 11 Author Share Posted March 11 (edited) 7 hours ago, tauzero said: Have you considered box section rather than bar? Yes, I was looking for a wide and thin box section but couldn't find any side enough and thin enough. My maximum depth is around 15-16mm. Also the maths around box section stiffness is complicated. Part of the reason for this is that the Americans use KSI and the rest of the world use GPa. I think I'm.gping to get two 6mm plates 60mm wide and put a 3mm plywood bit in the middle, not that it adds much strength but I get back to 15mm. 6mm aluminum should be equivalent to 3/4" ply but it could be significantly stiffer. 2x6mm should be a lot stiffer. I could also try 6mm and 12mm ply. One other option is 12mm aluminum plus a 3mm bit of ply. The ply would (hopefully) help dampen the resonance of the aluminium. 12mm aluminium is 8x stiffer than 6mm aluminium. I don't know if 2x6mm is the same stiffness as 12mm. For an equal sized material the relative stiffness is the cube of the thickness. 6 x 6 x 6 = 216 12 x 12 x 12 = 1728 1728/216 = 8 I did pure maths, none of this applied nonsense. Rob Edited March 11 by rwillett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamIAm Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 Would two of these side by side work? 30 mm x 15 mm x 2 mm - Aluminium Rectangular Tube https://www.aluminiumwarehouse.co.uk/products/30-mm-x-15-mm-x-2-mm-aluminium-rectangular-tube?pr_prod_strat=e5_desc&pr_rec_id=ac5f5ceff&pr_rec_pid=6895305949372&pr_ref_pid=6895305851068&pr_seq=uniform Sam x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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