What is “hi fi” sound and which amps tend to have it?

[itu]

7 hours ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

Yeah, but audiophools are nuts. These are the same guys who believe in all the nonsense...

...and need equipment like this:

https://www.thecablecooker.com/

 

Definitely a must!

[Chienmortbb]

4 minutes ago, itu said:

...and need equipment like this:

https://www.thecablecooker.com/

 

Definitely a must!

Gypsies, Tramps and Thieves?

[Chienmortbb]

On 12/02/2024 at 13:49, chris_b said:

at a push, Markbass.

Until you put them through a Markbass Cab. Any colour you like, except flat.

[Marco.EB]

To me I quit GAS and changing cabs every 3 months with keeping my Epifani UL310-2. Best "hi-fi" speaker I had for a bass cab. I still run Glockenklang head so I wouldn't say it's Hi-Fi but it's somewhere in the spirit...

[Baloney Balderdash]

Pointless without a FRFR cab or PA speaker.

 

The budget The Box PA 502 passive PA speaker that Thomann sells is surprisingly amazing for this.

 

300W 1x15" bass/mids woofer/driver and a 100W 1.7" high mids/high frequency tweeter :-: 300W RMS/1200W Peak :-: Crossover Freq: 2.3kHz :-: Freq response: 35Hz-20kHz (-10dB)/40Hz-18kHz (-3dB) :-: Sensitivity (1m/1W): 96 dB.

 

Weights about a ton though.

 

But comes in an active bi-amping (regular SS, not Class D) version too, the The Box PA 502 A.

 

Run the bass through a neutral preamp/DI and into this and you got it!

 

Edited February 19 by Baloney Balderdash

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

The reason for using an FRFR speaker is to remove speaker coloration from the equation, not to have overall flat response. Then the only tone shaping is done by the amp. In theory if you provide that tone shaped signal to the PA via a DI, which must be either in the amp post EQ or driven by the amp output, the sound in the PA will be the same as that from the stage. In theory, because it requires that the EQ at the console be left flat, that the PA subs aren't boosted in level, and that the in room response be the same in the audience as it is on stage. It's one of those ideas that seems to make sense but very seldom proves to actually work, because sound engineers are seldom if ever content to leave things alone. You may think that your tone is your business, but they tend to think that it's theirs.

[Lfalex v1.1]

On 16/02/2024 at 18:33, stevie said:

 The weak link in the hi-fi chain, whether you're talking home hi-fi or hi-fi bass, is always the speakers.

 

Definitely, that and the way in which they interact with the listening environment (usually a room for domestic hifi. Bass amps get used all over the place)

[Baloney Balderdash]

29 minutes ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

The reason for using an FRFR speaker is to remove speaker coloration from the equation, not to have overall flat response. Then the only tone shaping is done by the amp. In theory if you provide that tone shaped signal to the PA via a DI, which must be either in the amp post EQ or driven by the amp output, the sound in the PA will be the same as that from the stage. In theory, because it requires that the EQ at the console be left flat, that the PA subs aren't boosted in level, and that the in room response be the same in the audience as it is on stage. It's one of those ideas that seems to make sense but very seldom proves to actually work, because sound engineers are seldom if ever content to leave things alone. You may think that your tone is your business, but they tend to think that it's theirs.

Well OP wanted the amp not to color the tone of his bass, and I assume that would because he wants an uncolored tone.

 

No use having an amp that doesn't color your signal if the speaker does, and a regular bass cab will, even quite a lot.

 

I agree though that an uncolored FRFR representation of the signal that comes from your bass rarely actually is desirable.

 

Edited February 18 by Baloney Balderdash

[Minininjarob]

Well from the (very helpful honestly) descriptions you have provided I think I’m gonna steer clear of the hifi sound and I know what I’m looking for now, thanks. 

[Minininjarob]

6 minutes ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

Well OP wanted the amp not to color the tone of his bass, and I assume that would because he wants an uncolored tone.

 

No use having an amp that doesn't color your signal if the speaker does, and a regular bass cab will, even quite a lot.

 

I agree though that an uncolored FRFR representation of the signal that comes from your bass rarely actually is desirable.

 

I didn’t say which one I preferred. From the descriptions people have given and what I have tried so far I think I I’m going to stay away from the amps described as hifi. Sounds a bit lifeless to me. 

[Baloney Balderdash]

7 minutes ago, Minininjarob said:

I didn’t say which one I preferred. From the descriptions people have given and what I have tried so far I think I I’m going to stay away from the amps described as hifi. Sounds a bit lifeless to me. 

Sorry.

 

Yeah, just read the OP again, and apparently the headline for this topic had colored my memory of what the actual OP post said.

 

In any case, great that you now have a good idea of what amps referred to as hi-fi usually will sound like, and know what you are looking for.

 

Knowing what you are looking for is a huge step towards actually being able to achieve it, cause then all you really have to do is to use your ears.

 

Edited February 18 by Baloney Balderdash

[Dan Dare]

On 16/02/2024 at 18:33, stevie said:

The weak link in the hi-fi chain, whether you're talking home hi-fi or hi-fi bass, is always the speakers.

 

Agreed provided everything else in the chain is of good quality. Feed an accurate, revealing speaker with a poor quality signal, however, and the result is not likely to be pleasing. GIGO, etc. A less good speaker will probably be better in that case, because it will mask some of the shortcomings. It's all about finding combinations that work well together and complement each other.

[bremen]

On 16/02/2024 at 20:54, itu said:

...and need equipment like this:

https://www.thecablecooker.com/

 

Definitely a must!

"Recommending this product is a no-brainer.  - Wayne Donnelly" 

 

Couldn't agree more 🤣

[BillyBass]

On 19/02/2024 at 00:08, Minininjarob said:

I didn’t say which one I preferred. From the descriptions people have given and what I have tried so far I think I I’m going to stay away from the amps described as hifi. Sounds a bit lifeless to me. 

From your first post I take it you like the sound of GK kit.  I am biased but I have to agree, GK has a particular sound, not loved by all but it suits the music I play perfectly.  I own a GK Legacy 800 and a Fusion 1200.  Great heads.

[prowla]

Since different brands of Hi-Fi sound different, I don't think there is an absolute; some Hi-Fi systems strive for tonal perfection whilst others lean towards pace and dynamics.

The only thing I can say for sure is that low-fi is easier to identify.

If you ever plug in an instrument and think it's lost something of the sound, then it's low-fi; I have one or two pedals like that.

[Downunderwonder]

4 hours ago, prowla said:

pace

I too want an amp that plays the note in my head exactly when I want it. If it's slower than me there's going to be complaints because I am only just keeping up most of the time.

[Lfalex v1.1]

41 minutes ago, Downunderwonder said:

I too want an amp that plays the note in my head exactly when I want it. If it's slower than me there's going to be complaints because I am only just keeping up most of the time.

 

Whilst I understood what @prowla meant by pace/dynamics in a hi-fi context, I've never found a bass combo, head, pre or power that's been lacking in immediacy so much that it's been particularly noticeable,  let alone an issue. 

 

[prowla]

7 minutes ago, Lfalex v1.1 said:

 

Whilst I understood what @prowla meant by pace/dynamics in a hi-fi context, I've never found a bass combo, head, pre or power that's been lacking in immediacy so much that it's been particularly noticeable,  let alone an issue. 

 

I've got a couple of pedals which do it, though: the HX Stomp and a SansAmp

[Rusco]

On 16/02/2024 at 21:02, Chienmortbb said:

Until you put them through a Markbass Cab. Any colour you like, except flat.

Interesting.. I've always found my CMD121 + NY121 pretty transparent with the Eq flat and the filters off, compared to the various Fender's, Ashdown's and Line6's I've used or owned anyway.

[Chienmortbb]

5 hours ago, Rusco said:

NY121

TWEETER: piezo. Look through these pages and those on TB and you will find threads about removing/replacing Markbass piezo tweeters. The problem is not the piezo tweeters per se, rather the crossover or lack of it. Despite what Motorola said about piezos not needing a crossover, they do.

[Frank Blank]

On 12/02/2024 at 12:02, Phil Starr said:

For me it's the sound of my bass but louder...

For me too. The only thing in forty years that got me that was an FRFR speaker, which is why I stopped using a trad amp/cab rig from that day onward.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

What Motorola should have said was that piezos could be used without a crossover, which is true. Being a capacitive load they act like they have a built in first order highpass filter. But be it a piezo or dynamic tweeter first order filtering doesn't make the grade in professional use. I use them extensively, with a second order filter that combined with their inherent filtering gives third order results.