Snapped string after swapping: what did I do wrong?

[chyc]

I've got two sets of strings that I like, for different purposes (chromes vs rounds), and so swap back and forth fairly regularly (every 3 months or so). However, and this annoys me somewhat, yesterday the D'Addario Chrome D string snapped upon tuning. Now that my Sauron gaze is looking at the string, I can see that while the meaty end of the string is chunky enough, the headstock with its silk is extremely thin, almost like guitar string thin, so it was a disaster waiting to happen. The other strings I own, Rotosound Ultra Mags, are much chunkier around the headstock and I have no worries about this happening to these.

 

Surely I'm not the only person who changes strings back and forth. What can I do to stop this happening (please nobody say to buy another bass !)? I'm not a string expert by any stretch, but it is disappointing that the D'Addario Chromes really are so thin up top, so it may be that I just cannot do this with these strings. My eyes watered when I bought these strings as well, so this question may be academic as I wrestle in my head to pony up for the same thing again.

 

For info if there's something I can correct, when I unwind, the strings maintain their coil around the peg. When it comes to putting them back, I slot the end of the string into the centre of the tuner which seems to lock it in place, then tighten the string with the coil pre-wrapped around the peg, albeit loosely.

[Dad3353]

Buy another bas... Oh, yeah, right. Sorry. 

[neepheid]

I think that any time you remove and reinstall a string it weakens it.  I don't have any scientific reasons for this gut feeling.

[Bolo]

I got metal fatigue just reading this!

 

I'm not aware of anyone swapping between two sets of strings. How many times do you re-use the same set?

[Baloney Balderdash]

No swapping between the same two sets of strings on a regular basis definitely isn't common, and strings are not really made for this.

 

That is to be slacken off totally then tightened up significantly, and bent a little more, sometimes slightly different directions, from time to time, at the bridge and at the tuner end, over and over again, on a regular basis.

 

This was bound to happen sooner or later with your use.

 

And yes metal fatigue is a thing, and what would be at work here.

 

So yes, if you insist keep swapping between two different sets of strings getting a second bass would indeed be the only sensible answer to avoid this.

 

 

Edited February 14 by Baloney Balderdash

[Cato]

23 minutes ago, neepheid said:

I think that any time you remove and reinstall a string it weakens it.  I don't have any scientific reasons for this gut feeling.

 

I'm thinking of the bending the paperclip back and forth until it snaps thing.

 

No idea if the two things are actually comparable though.

Edited February 13 by Cato

[Baloney Balderdash]

28 minutes ago, Cato said:

 

I'm thinking of the bending the paperclip back and forth until it snaps thing.

 

No idea if the two things are actually comparable though.

That is exactly the exact same phenomena that is at play here, and it is called metal fatigue.

 

Strings aren't really made to withstand getting swapped around over and over again.

 

In fact I am pretty certain it would be near impossible to make strings that would, unless we are talking pure nylon or rubber strings with no metal involved.

 

Edited February 13 by Baloney Balderdash

[chyc]

Thanks for all the responses. Looks like I'm out of luck. Just to reemphasize that I feel my Rotosound strings will be able to do this indefinitely as the string diameter is constant for the entire length of the string. The Chromes, by virtue of them being cheese-wire at the headstock, will not. Obvious answer will be to switch to Rotosound flats so long as they are similar in design to the UltraMags

 

In answer to how often have I done this, I reckon every three months or so for 2 years, so each string has been placed on the bass 3 or 4 times.

[Baloney Balderdash]

4 minutes ago, chyc said:

I feel my Rotosound strings will be able to do this indefinitely as the string diameter is constant for the entire length of the string.

They will with guarantee not. 

 

4 minutes ago, chyc said:

Obvious answer will be to switch to Rotosound flats so long as they are similar in design to the UltraMags

They are not.

 

Edited February 13 by Baloney Balderdash

[badger]

if you really have to do this, then don't straighten them out when you take them off the bass - ie leave them in the coiled/bent shape the came off in.  they won't stand up to being taken off & put on again indefinitely, but you should get a few more cycles out of them.

 

but think of all the money you'd save on strings by getting another bass.  😁

[Gasman]

Interested to understand why the changeover is necessary, especially at this 3 monthly interval. Just for fun?

[Boodang]

I have a spare bass I keep just for the purpose of swapping out strings for when I want to try something different, quite often various nylon tape. So as not to damage them during the on/off process I've installed a bridge so the ball end slots in and doesn't require the whole string to be pulled back through a hole. That way once the tension is released the string just lifts straight off. Given that the nylon strings are quite delicate I haven't had one break yet using this method. 

[zbd1960]

Whilst metal strings are significantly more robust than gut strings, they are prone to the same issues, albeit much less so. 

 

When you tighten a string, there is some stretching. That stretching is not uniform - some places it will stretch more than in others and this creates a very slight variation in thickness/density of the string along its length. If you repeat the process, it will increase the effect - the places where it has stretched already, will stretch some more, creating places on the string where it's thinner. These thinner places become potential places of failure as the thinning will lead to micro-fractures and metal fatigue. At some point, the micro-fractures increase and the string fails.

 

This is also why you should avoid kinking the string.

 

Gut strings are very fragile compared to metal strings - I can tell you from experience that the slightest kink or bend in a string becomes a point of failure very quickly.  

[mr4stringz]

This problem calls for…a second bass.

[christhammer666]

you have most prob weakened the metal by changing a few times  

[chyc]

3 hours ago, Gasman said:

Interested to understand why the changeover is necessary, especially at this 3 monthly interval. Just for fun?

I'd love to say it's for different clients with different requirements, but yes it's me, for run, recording different sounds and practising different techniques.

 

I should clarify that when I say I feel the UltraMags can be swapped indefinitely, this would be bounded by the useful  life of the string. In other words, I feel that the Rotos will suffer metal fatigue failure after the strings' sounds are no longer pleasant. The Chromes obviously had a lot of life left in them.

 

I measured the widths of the D strings. UltraMag is ~1.7mm for the entire length of the string. The Chrome is ~1.7mm at the playing end, and ~0.9mm at the snapped headstock end with the silk removed. I guess this string swapping is not something I can continue doing, particularly if I want to stick with D'Addario.

[neepheid]

Just now, chyc said:

I'd love to say it's for different clients with different requirements, but yes it's me, for run, recording different sounds and practising different techniques.

 

I should clarify that when I say I feel the UltraMags can be swapped indefinitely, this would be bounded by the useful  life of the string. In other words, I feel that the Rotos will suffer metal fatigue failure after the strings' sounds are no longer pleasant. The Chromes obviously had a lot of life left in them.

 

I measured the widths of the D strings. UltraMag is ~1.7mm for the entire length of the string. The Chrome is ~1.7mm at the playing end, and ~0.9mm at the snapped headstock end with the silk removed. I guess this string swapping is not something I can continue doing, particularly if I want to stick with D'Addario.

 

At the end of the day, you do you.  You came here asking for advice, the advice has been dispensed, and I get the feeling you don't like the advice you've been given.  Sorry

 

I wouldn't do what you're doing, personally - but if you do continue with your frequent string swapping you are just going to have to accept that there's a risk associated with it, as you have found out.

[chyc]

2 minutes ago, neepheid said:

 

At the end of the day, you do you.  You came here asking for advice, the advice has been dispensed, and I get the feeling you don't like the advice you've been given.  Sorry

Some people gave tips, the majority said don't do that. I accept that. Perhaps yes there is some disappointment that I cannot do what I want to do, but in a way I should be glad that there was not much I could have done to prevent failure doing what I was doing.

[itu]

When the metal is bent, it is cold tempered (hardened). Tempering changes the metal so that it becomes harder and brittle. After bending the string a couple of times, the bent place is so hard that it breaks easily. Just like the paper clip which @Cato described.

 

The thickness of a string is not that important, if only the tension is low enough, the core will withstand the forces. Winding is affecting the weight of the string.

[Musicman666]

couldn't help thinking that maybe it was over tightened ..does happen but for that to happen you need to be as dumb as me. 

[Mickyk]

On 14/02/2024 at 17:05, itu said:

When the metal is bent, it is cold tempered (hardened). Tempering changes the metal so that it becomes harder and brittle. After bending the string a couple of times, the bent place is so hard that it breaks easily. Just like the paper clip which @Cato described.

 

The thickness of a string is not that important, if only the tension is low enough, the core will withstand the forces. Winding is affecting the weight of the string.

I also do this mainly because after a while i get bored with the tone so i change them and that's maybe every couple of Months.never had one break tough.

What i do is when i first fit them i pre stretch them just by pulling up each String in the middle and giving it a bit of a tug.

I do though remember Breaking a string when i was tuning a Bass up or Miss tuning a Bass up.

[SteveXFR]

Repeatedly fitting and removing strings is not normal behaviour and will lead to failure occasionally. Bass strings don't need pre-stretching, that's more of a guitar thing. Just fit them, tune up and play them until they've lost too much brightness for you then bin them.

If you want to vary the tone a bit then try some different playing techniques (fingers, slap, pick or try picking harder or lighter etc) or get some effects pedals. 

[SteveXFR]

On 14/02/2024 at 17:05, itu said:

Tempering changes the metal so that it becomes harder and brittle.

 

That's not right. Tempering is a treatment used after hardening to remove some of the hardness and increase toughness. It makes it less brittle, not more.

[itu]

7 minutes ago, SteveXFR said:

That's not right. Tempering is a treatment used after hardening to remove some of the hardness and increase toughness. It makes it less brittle, not more.

So sorry, thanks for the note, I mixed the terms. Hardening is the right one. Play it again, Sam:

 

"When the metal is bent, it is cold hardened. Hardening changes the metal so that it becomes harder and brittle. After bending the string a couple of times, the bent place is so hard that it breaks easily. Just like the paper clip which @Cato described."

[Stub Mandrel]

4 hours ago, SteveXFR said:

 

That's not right. Tempering is a treatment used after hardening to remove some of the hardness and increase toughness. It makes it less brittle, not more.

 

Unless you are American, in which case hardening is tempering and drawing is tempering.