DMX Control - iPad or Controller with midi

[mikegatward]

I’m looking to upgrade the bands lighting. We’re just a covers band who play the pub circuit so no luxury of a sound or light person.

 

We currently just have a 4 par Equinox unit with a broken footswitch and are going to add a wash light or 2.

 

Clearly DMX is the way forward to control the lights but I’m torn between 2 options.

 

The iPad route would be clean as we already use a router for the iPad controlled mixer. But the big problem I see is how are we going to control it when we’re all busy playing.

 

Second option is a dmx controller with midi input. As I run a Morningstar mc6 into a Helix Stomp presumably I could run through into the dmx controller and call up Chasers from there. Downside on that is that it’s another lump of kit to transport.

 

Just wondered what other similar bands used. 

[TimR]

iPad DMX solution is expensive for a few par cans. Software that does what you want is a few hundred quid. 

 

I have a Chauvet Obey 40. Just program a bunch of chases in and select a different chase for each track. 

 

Programming is a bit fiddly at first but with a bit of work it's a reasonable solution. 

[mikegatward]

That’s where my mindset is going Tim

 

Can pick up an Obey 70 for about £70 and stick it in a rack case between my amp and cab

 

Then I can always midi commands to it from my pedal board if I can figure it out.

[pete.young]

The Obey 40 will allow you to select any of the 6 chases, any of the scenes, and the blackout function through it's Midi interface. It doesn't allow you to switch it to sound-to-light or adjust the brightness.

 

This guy has a lot of great videos about DMX including one featurning another Morningstar controller so this should give you what you need.

 

[lozkerr]

11 hours ago, mikegatward said:

The iPad route would be clean as we already use a router for the iPad controlled mixer. But the big problem I see is how are we going to control it when we’re all busy playing.

I do the lights for my bands, and we have the same problem, even though the rig's pretty basic - Behringer LC2412 driving eight LED PAR cans. Chases are programmed into the controller and I just set one going when we go on stage. 

 

If we had a dedicated lighting person, there's a lot more we could do - I've been experimenting with adding moving heads and thinking about whether I could do anything with MIDI - but it's not practical to play bass, sing BVs and work the lights. Stomping on a footswitch is about my limit.

[TimR]

6 chases is fine. You also have scenes so can have the whole stage set as a single colour during set up and breaks.

 

You can vary the speed with the tap button, there's probably a midi switch that you could program to do that. Would need looking at the manual.

 

As you can have colours other than the 7 basic ones you get from automatic mode you can program a load of scenes with custom colours. So already that's an improvement. 

 

If you want to have different colours for each song, then you'll need more chases but I don't think anyone will notice. And it's a lot of programming and a lot of selecting and matching scenes with songs.

 

 

[TimR]

1 hour ago, lozkerr said:

I've been experimenting with adding moving heads and thinking about whether I could do anything with MIDI

 

I have a couple of moving heads. Not used them in anger yet, but played with them via the Obey. Again fiddly to get your head around the programming especially as the positioning is done by fader rather than joystick and but does the job. 

[skidder652003]

we have been using moving heads for a few years now, they are great but quick tip, put them behind an amp as a backdrop light

so they dont blind you or the punters.

we also used to have a dmx footswitch but I only used it for blackouts at the end of each song. Once that died we didnt bother to replace it which was a shame IMO

Now we just carry a large bag of LED lights and clamps and just attch them around the stage as appropriate with slow colour washes.

 

 

 

 

 

[TimR]

6 minutes ago, skidder652003 said:

we have been using moving heads for a few years now, they are great but quick tip, put them behind an amp as a backdrop light

so they dont blind you or the punters.

we also used to have a dmx footswitch but I only used it for blackouts at the end of each song. Once that died we didnt bother to replace it which was a shame IMO

Now we just carry a large bag of LED lights and clamps and just attch them around the stage as appropriate with slow colour washes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes. Was considering just limiting the travel to a 220 ish degree arc so the band and dance floor don't get the beam. 

[gazhowe]

I've used several different DMX controllers but now use the ADJ Airstream DMX Pro app for iPad. It's free however you need to buy one of two receivers that connect to your lights via DMX cable. 

 

Airstream DMX bridge - connects to your iPad via its own WiFi network. It can be prone to dropouts in some venues where there is lots of traffic on the 2.4gh spectrum. You can scan and select different frequency ranges to help minimise risk of this happening. 
 

4Stream DMX Bridge - provides the above connectivity option plus an option to connect to your iPad via a cable, therefore avoiding risk of drop outs. 
 

Drop me a PM if you would like to know more about how these work. 

 

[pete.young]

2 hours ago, TimR said:

 

 

You can vary the speed with the tap button, there's probably a midi switch that you could program to do that. Would need looking at the manual.

 

I have looked at the manual. Both the Obey 40 and Obey 70 don't allow you to midi-switch the tap tempo, sound-to-light, or anything else other than the scenes, the chases, and blackout, according to the MIDI map on page 32.

[TimR]

I'll stick to using my finger. 🤣

 

At the end of the day it's 4 LED PAR lamps. 

Edited February 15 by TimR

[lozkerr]

On 15/02/2024 at 13:05, TimR said:

 

I have a couple of moving heads. Not used them in anger yet, but played with them via the Obey. Again fiddly to get your head around the programming especially as the positioning is done by fader rather than joystick and but does the job. 

Very much so. They also make the lighting bridge sway when all six of them are moving together. I'm thinking about putting them in two groups of three and mounting them on top of the speakers. That should at least keep the light off the dancefloor if they're programmed correctly.

[Dad3353]

4 minutes ago, lozkerr said:

Very much so. They also make the lighting bridge sway when all six of them are moving together. I'm thinking about putting them in two groups of three and mounting them on top of the speakers. That should at least keep the light off the dancefloor if they're programmed correctly.

 

I did the lighting for several years for a touring band (Kiemsa...); moving heads can be a pain in the wotsit unless you're playing very similar venue dispositions, or can programme them very swiftly on site. I used a laptop and lighting software (Sunlite...); one has to compensate for fixtures being suspended upside-down, or being at different places/heights around the stage. Having programmed effects such as having  all fixtures moving in to spotlight the singer, solo, then moving out to pinpoint other players and such imply having a pretty well fixed stage disposition. For touring theatre-type venues, this can happen (we supplied a lighting rig sheet with the tech spec and riders...), but there was always programming to be done whilst setting up, and sometimes while the opening numbers were being played..! I wouldn't recommend moving-heads unless there's a lighting person, or a very simple set-up indeed. Excellent once it's all nicely set-up, but so many pitfalls. Just sayin... 

[TimR]

Moving head lights for a pub band aren't the kind of moving heads you have in a theatre. 

[Dad3353]

25 minutes ago, TimR said:

Moving head lights for a pub band aren't the kind of moving heads you have in a theatre. 

 

So, Tim, we meet again..! There is shirley some subtle difference I have overlooked in my dotage; pray tell..? 

[mikegatward]

Thanks for the input everyone. Much to mull over but the midi and physical DMX controller seems the way forward.

[TimR]

3 hours ago, Dad3353 said:

or a very simple set-up indeed

 

[lozkerr]

6 hours ago, Dad3353 said:

I wouldn't recommend moving-heads unless there's a lighting person, or a very simple set-up indeed. Excellent once it's all nicely set-up, but so many pitfalls. Just sayin... 

Agreed. Without a lighting crew, there's only so much that's possible without making things look daft. I'm thinking about making wooden mounts to sit on top of the PA cabs, each holding three moving heads. Have them adjustable to compensate for the stacks being in different positions from the stage. Program some dynamic effects either along with the PAR cans chase or use a separate controller with a chase controlled by a footswitch. The latter might be a better option as it keeps the moving heads in a separate DMX universe.

 

I'm still experimenting at the moment and it's possible I'll decide it's too much hassle. 

[Dad3353]

34 minutes ago, lozkerr said:

...  use a separate controller with a chase controlled by a footswitch. The latter might be a better option as it keeps the moving heads in a separate DMX universe...

 

There's plenty enough Dmx channels with such a set-up without the need for a separate Universe, but some controllers are better suited to static fixtures, others made for dynamics, so it can make sense to have dedicated controllers for each. It's less of an issue when using lighting software with simply a Dmx interface, though. 

Edited February 16 by Dad3353

[lozkerr]

13 hours ago, Dad3353 said:

 

There's plenty enough Dmx channels with such a set-up without the need for a separate Universe, but some controllers are better suited to static fixtures, others made for dynamics, so it can make sense to have dedicated controllers for each. It's less of an issue when using lighting software with simply a Dmx interface, though. 

Indeed, but lighting software isn't cheap. All the packages I've looked at use a subscription model, which can cost £££££. 

 

I'd also need the ability to stop the moving heads without the stage going to DBO between songs and if anything went wrong on stage. A separate controller with pause and DBO controlled by a footswitch would be essential without a lighting person present.

 

Experiments will continue.

Edited February 17 by lozkerr

[Dad3353]

1 hour ago, lozkerr said:

Indeed, but lighting software isn't cheap...

 

I used Sunlite, which is free (but powerful...) software, driving a Dmx interface. The base interface model, which will do everything you'd ever want for a group, costs just under £200. I still have mine, from a couple of decades ago, and it works just fine, coupled to a laptop USB-C port, or with a stand-alone mode. Here's the gen on these...

 

Sunlite Lighting Control ...

 

I prepared my scenes at home, using the 3D modelling built-in, and 'tweaked' as required for the venues. You can download the software and try it out, without the interface, for free. Worth a look..?

[mikegatward]

For my needs I’m wondering if the ADJ DMX 384 Controller would be better than the Obey 70

 

Can buy new for £104 and it has the plus a midi command to turn sound to light off and on which would be useful.

[pete.young]

If you have budget, you might be able to stretch to the Bigfoot linked in the other thread:

 

 

[lozkerr]

3 hours ago, Dad3353 said:

I prepared my scenes at home, using the 3D modelling built-in, and 'tweaked' as required for the venues. You can download the software and try it out, without the interface, for free. Worth a look..?

Thanks! I hadn't come across that one!