Best way to learn bass?

[bassbiscuits]

I learned by playing along to simple songs I knew and liked, and then as I grew to recognise patterns and techniques, I practiced incorporating them into learning increasingly more complex songs.

 

I suppose in a roundabout way that’s a sort of framework of music theory rather than just total guesswork, but I’ve never found the need for formal theory learning. 

 

I don’t mean to disregard theory, but don’t let it be a barrier either - you can play along to songs, jam and gig with mates etc based on using your ears perfectly well. I’ve managed for 38 years and counting…

[Jackroadkill]

15 minutes ago, bassbiscuits said:

I learned by playing along to simple songs I knew and liked, and then as I grew to recognise patterns and techniques, I practiced incorporating them into learning increasingly more complex songs.

 

I suppose in a roundabout way that’s a sort of framework of music theory rather than just total guesswork, but I’ve never found the need for formal theory learning. 

 

I don’t mean to disregard theory, but don’t let it be a barrier either - you can play along to songs, jam and gig with mates etc based on using your ears perfectly well. I’ve managed for 38 years and counting…

 

 

This; I found that I needed to have fun to learn, and playing songs I like and the feeling that engendered in me made practising harder songs easier - knowing that I could meant that I did.

[Bassfinger]

The other thing about music theory thwt is akin to reading. Even if you're untutored in the subject, if you listen to a helluva lot of the stuff you'll develop an inate understanding of many of the key points of melody, texture, rhythm, pitch and keys. You might not be able to vocalise and explain it, but you'll still dig how they work.

[bass_dinger]

Like @bassbiscuits, I also learnt theory by absorption and example.  Song with G a C in it? Maybe a D is also likely to appear.  Or an F? I picked up Scales; chord scales. Key signatures. 

 

The thing is, it took me 30 years to get there, and I watched my 7 year old daughter make the same journey in 3 years, with formal music theory lessons.

 

 

For myself, I don't want to rediscover what already exists, when I can spend an hour learning it from a teacher or YouTube video.

Modes? Chord substitutions? It's all out there.

 

I must say, I have a cloth ear, so, I struggle to hear and remember chord changes.  For that reason, I now find it easier to find the music manuscript on YouTube, and site read it.

[Dan Dare]

The trouble with the term "music theory" is that it has a lot of unfavourable connotations for many. It can conjure images of poring over dry textbooks, having no fun, being rapped over the knuckles by the teacher, etc, etc.

 

All of that is to do with the way it is taught in some quarters, not the subject itself. The reality is a lot different. It's all about demystifying how music works and learning why some things sound good and others don't. Some knowledge of it cannot fail to improve your playing. Even if you never intend to read music off the page, it will make you a better improviser, because you will have a better idea what to play and what not to play.

 

bass_dinger sums it up very well when he observes that his 7 year old daughter learned in 3 years what took him 30 years to learn.

 

There's no downside. You don't have to go the whole hog and learn how to compose for a full orchestra, but it's mad not to learn anything at all about it if you're serious about playing.

Edited February 18 by Dan Dare

[Cato]

I think a lot of self taught players from my generation are a bit wary of formal musical education because it used to seem almost like an impediment to playing what you wanted to.

 

When I first started playing in the late 80s a lot of my friends were also picking up guitars and many of them tried formal lessons.

 

Back then it seemed that no one was really teaching 'pop' or 'rock' guitar the only lessons, certainly in my locality, were all classically based and the general advice from tutors seemed to be not to move to electric guitar before you'd achieved a basic level of proficiency on a nylon strung classical model.

 

Sod that.

[Paolo85]

7 minutes ago, Dan Dare said:

it's mad not to learn anything at all about it if you're serious about playing.

It is a good point but there may be issues with the premise. A person playing at 30, from beginner level, with quite possibly a lot going on in their life like everybody, and with a gazillion of alternatives available in terms of entertainment, may just stop playing if they find the experience frustrating. In my opinion, there is a complete disconnect between what in theory is the best way to learn an instrument (that is, a structured program that enables the diligent student to become competent in the shortest timeframe) and what in practice is the best way to learn, which I believe is seeking gratification above all (which may mean different things for different people) and avoid joining the vast ranks of people who give up.

Obviously, it's not black or white. If somebody really wants to play jazz I guess it is easier to learn theory than to learn walking bass lines note by note.. again, I am not recommending against theory

[Geek99]

I think you should learn some theory, it makes it easier to understand what’s going on and to discuss music. I don’t think you need to learn to read music, I can just about though quite slowly. Learning that much hasn’t hindered me in any way. You already learned to read a language way more complicated than music. 

[itu]

Theory is a tool, one tool. Learn some and move it to the fretboard. Fretboard mapping is not so hard, and learning just few scales and then chords I shared earlier, gives a pretty good starting point. When you can some basics, do some searching: many people here like @TKenrick, @ChrisDev, @tomread, and @Joe Hubbard Bass have shared us incredible instructions and quality scores.

 

But the big thing is this: you study, you learn. It would be wise to sit down for a couple of minutes (here I mean Australian minutes) to think, what do you want to be able to play? What do you really want from your playing?

 

Who are your favourite players? Do you want to play like them? To list them is also a good thing. Then you can try to find their material - and believe me or not - learning notes couldn't be easier, then. Motivation will drive you further than you thought.

 

Theory, reading notes, scales, chords, all these are tools you want to use, because they will help you find your own voice. "I played until my fingers bled, and I still wanted to play more."

[Dan Dare]

2 hours ago, Paolo85 said:

It is a good point but there may be issues with the premise. A person playing at 30, from beginner level, with quite possibly a lot going on in their life like everybody, and with a gazillion of alternatives available in terms of entertainment, may just stop playing if they find the experience frustrating. In my opinion, there is a complete disconnect between what in theory is the best way to learn an instrument (that is, a structured program that enables the diligent student to become competent in the shortest timeframe) and what in practice is the best way to learn, which I believe is seeking gratification above all (which may mean different things for different people) and avoid joining the vast ranks of people who give up.

Obviously, it's not black or white. If somebody really wants to play jazz I guess it is easier to learn theory than to learn walking bass lines note by note.. again, I am not recommending against theory

 

What issues? I did not (and would not) advocate learning in a way that is frustrating. Yes, learning to play an instrument can be hard work, but so can acquiring any new skill. Gratification and enjoyment are certainly important to keep motivation up, but, as the saying goes, nothing worth having was ever easy. No point in glossing over that fact (the ad's promising to teach you how to play in just five minutes a day don't help, in that they give a false impression of how easy it is).

 

It's a quite common misconception that theory is only for would be jazzers and classical musicians. You don't, as I said, need to learn how to compose for full orchestra. However, some basic/simple knowledge - keys, how they relate to each other and how the most commonly used chord voicings are constructed - can be of immense help in playing any music.

 

Not sure I understand the comment about it being "easier to learn theory than to learn walking bass lines note by note". They are both things you need to learn. However, a little knowledge of why the notes that make up that walking bass line work is very valuable, because it will help you create your own lines, rather than having to learn each one note for note. Anything that will help save the learner from playing the same tired pentatonic clichés over everything has to be good.

[Dan Dare]

3 hours ago, Cato said:

When I first started playing in the late 80s a lot of my friends were also picking up guitars and many of them tried formal lessons.

 

Back then it seemed that no one was really teaching 'pop' or 'rock' guitar the only lessons, certainly in my locality, were all classically based and the general advice from tutors seemed to be not to move to electric guitar before you'd achieved a basic level of proficiency on a nylon strung classical model.

 

Sod that.

 

That isn't the way it is these days. You can study rock guitar at university if you want. But yeah. Sod knowing anything about what you're doing. Much better to let it all hang out and trust that good stuff will happen by accident.

[Bassfinger]

But if someone devotes serious time to their craft, even if not driven by a formal education, any progress is not accidental. As with anything in life, the harder I work the luckier I get (cue 6 pages of pedantry about the nature of luck.)

 

Mark Knofpfler became a 6 string genius because he persisted, because he put in the hours, because he would practice and repeat until he quite literally fell asleep while still clutching the guitar. Never taken a formal lesson in his life.

 

Conversely, I know sheet, rigid, unintuitive players who've had lessons up the ying yang.

 

I've had a fair bit of formal keyboard and guitar tuition, but I'd never question to abilities of those who got there by a different route.  If it worked, it worked.  

 

The best way to learn something is the method that works best for that person, no matter how much it pleases or upsets others.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 19 by Bassfinger
Mucked up the post because I've not had any posting lessons

[SimonK]

A friend of mine at University was wooing a classical pianist. As he was also a pianist but couldn't read music he asked her for "lessons", but his game was up when she caught him looking out of the window while playing, but remembering where to turn the page! Turns out he has a phenomenal ear and doesn't really need theory because his head/mind/ear can do it for him. Irritatingly he switched from keys to bass in a funk band on the spur of the moment having never really played bass before...

 

Proved to me that natural ability and a good ear have a big part, if not the main part, to play. Theory can make up for not having the natural ability (as in my case) but irritatingly no amount of practice or theory can make up for a good ear. That's why playing with other people, and learning to hear how music works, is so important.

[Skybone]

Play with other people.

If you know any guitarists, see if you can join them for a jam.

Maybe try a jam night or an open mic night.

[gjones]

On 17/02/2024 at 18:07, Cheeto726 said:

I want to master the instrument and eventually gig 

 

I think you'd be better off gigging before you master your instrument. If I'd decided to master my instrument before I gigged, I'd still be waiting to play my first gig after 40 years

 

 

 

[Dan Dare]

2 hours ago, SimonK said:

A friend of mine at University was wooing a classical pianist. As he was also a pianist but couldn't read music he asked her for "lessons", but his game was up when she caught him looking out of the window while playing, but remembering where to turn the page! Turns out he has a phenomenal ear and doesn't really need theory because his head/mind/ear can do it for him. Irritatingly he switched from keys to bass in a funk band on the spur of the moment having never really played bass before...

 

Proved to me that natural ability and a good ear have a big part, if not the main part, to play. Theory can make up for not having the natural ability (as in my case) but irritatingly no amount of practice or theory can make up for a good ear. That's why playing with other people, and learning to hear how music works, is so important.

 

There are always people with exceptional natural ability, but they are not typical. We ordinary mortals have to work at it. We're seeing a lot of the cliched arguments for not acquiring an understanding of music theory on this thread. I'm just waiting for someone to opine that knowing about it it will "harm their creativity"...

 

"No amount of practice or theory can make up for a good ear"? Does that mean that those who don't have that "phenomenal ear" may as well give up and take up photography or golf? You can develop your ear's ability, in the same way as you can develop any attribute.

 

Of course, it's important to play with others. Of course it's important to hear how music works and not just read it from the page. The point is not that one should learn solely from a book, but that one ought to do so in conjunction with playing with others, trying things out for yourself, etc, etc. It can speed up the learning process, sometimes dramatically. Would anyone recommend not learning to read or write language?

 

There's a lot of defensiveness around this topic. Some are prone to knock it to make themselves feel better about not understanding it. If you'd rather not do it, knock yourself out. In the end, nobody else will be any the worse off.

[Boodang]

8 minutes ago, Dan Dare said:

 

There are always people with exceptional natural ability, but they are not typical. We ordinary mortals have to work at it. We're seeing a lot of the cliched arguments for not acquiring an understanding of music theory on this thread. I'm just waiting for someone to opine that knowing about it it will "harm their creativity"...

 

"No amount of practice or theory can make up for a good ear"? Does that mean that those who don't have that "phenomenal ear" may as well give up and take up photography or golf? You can develop your ear's ability, in the same way as you can develop any attribute.

 

Of course, it's important to play with others. Of course it's important to hear how music works and not just read it from the page. The point is not that one should learn solely from a book, but that one ought to do so in conjunction with playing with others, trying things out for yourself, etc, etc. It can speed up the learning process, sometimes dramatically. Would anyone recommend not learning to read or write language?

 

There's a lot of defensiveness around this topic. Some are prone to knock it to make themselves feel better about not understanding it. If you'd rather not do it, knock yourself out. In the end, nobody else will be any the worse off.

I have to say, over the years, the more theory I learn and internalise the better a player I’ve become. Also, not to be underestimated, ear training. 

[Baloney Balderdash]

Start practicing improvisation and writing your own stuff, maybe?

[nilorius]

19 minutes ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

Start practicing improvisation and writing your own stuff, maybe?

Yeah, write Your own Donna Lee solo.

[Baloney Balderdash]

12 minutes ago, nilorius said:

Yeah, write Your own Donna Lee solo.

You certainly won't learn how to as long as you are simply copying the fingering of the original.

 

Also plenty of legendary bass players who didn't possess Jaco's acrobatic skills on a fretboard but still managed to write legendary music and bass lines.

 

Edited February 19 by Baloney Balderdash

[nilorius]

24 minutes ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

You certainly won't learn how to as long as you are simply copying the fingering of the original.

 

Also plenty of legendary bass players who didn't possess Jaco's acrobatic skills on a fretboard but still managed to write legendary music and bass lines.

 

Exactly - don't try to learn cover songs the exact way they have bean played. Do it your own way.

[dmccombe7]

Always gonna be different viewpoints on this one. Theory or not to theory.

I did take lessons for approx 18mths at which the teacher said there wasn't much else he could teach me. It was time to go out and pick it up yourself now. How wrong that was. There was a lot more i should have been taught.

I have a basic knowledge of theory and can read music but not sight reading. 

Its been a bonus for me in that i have always written out almost every song i've ever learned. That for me meant i learned it by ear and could remember it and also writing it out allowed me another avenue of recall when playing it within a band.

I would always recommend lessons to start with and depending on where you want to go with it either learn by ear, tabs or whatever you can to learn a song. I'll literally use anything i can find to learn a song note for note.

I've never been asked if i could read music and its never been mentioned in any band i've ever played in but it allows me to understand music better and following other musicians in a band. Knowing scales and correct fingering technique can help reduce strain in the long run. 

As an aside i suffered hand / finger issues a few yrs back and decided to go back and perfect my technique again and the strain was gone.

Reading isn't for everyone but its a good starting point for many.

I would also ask your teacher to try songs you like and listen to and that will maybe give your interest a little boost.

Dave

[Dan Dare]

52 minutes ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

You certainly won't learn how to as long as you are simply copying the fingering of the original.

 

Au contraire. If you learn how great players did/do it, you can use the knowledge and skill you acquire from studying what they did/do to develop your own lines. Standing on the shoulders of giants and all that.

[Boodang]

15 minutes ago, Dan Dare said:

 

Au contraire. If you learn how great players did/do it, you can use the knowledge and skill you acquire from studying what they did/do to develop your own lines. Standing on the shoulders of giants and all that.

I second that. Are you really going to create a better baseline than James Jamerson?! 

[dmccombe7]

I learn a cover song note for note and once i'm confident and happy with it i'll add a touch of colouring here and there but i like to stay pretty true to the original feel of the song. Sometimes i'll add and other times i might simplify a bassline just depends on how i feel on the night.

Dave