Possible arthritis in my fingers - any help or experience?

[Roger Phillips]

Just last year I developed arthritis in both wrists and ankles; with regards to the hands I visited my GP (was it carpal tunnel?). He ticketed me for xrays and when the results were back he confirmed I had advanced arthritis in the wrists. It's my six-strings I can't play now; my fingers just won't hold the strings down for chord work- thumb won't even clasp round the fretboard binding to hold the bottom E which is very depressing. All those lovely vintage Gibson's will have to go. However, I'm hanging on to my EB-3 and '67 Jazz as I can just about play them.

My mother, recently departed, told me it's no fun getting old- she saw 102!

Roger 

[Geek99]

34 minutes ago, jonnybass said:

Thanks I'd say fingers crossed but not sure if thats appropriate in this topic.

 

Jonny

I have this on my knees - wonder if it’s psoriatic arthritis 

[lowregisterhead]

57 minutes ago, jonnybass said:

A favourite of my physio years ago was always motion is lotion.. 

 

Edited February 19 by lowregisterhead

[lowregisterhead]

57 minutes ago, jonnybass said:

A favourite of my physio years ago was always motion is lotion.. 

 

Some sayings can be useful, others less so. Years ago I had an issue that was eventually pinned down to an interaction between two medications I was on. I would wake up in the middle of the night feeling really nauseous, jump out of bed in fear of being sick, then black out on the floor. Not pleasant, and it scared the Bejeesus out of the missus. I was given all sorts of blood tests, a 24-hour blood pressure monitor, and a ride strapped to a thing called a 'tilt table' to check for variations in blood pressure and the function my inner ear in different orientations, all to no avail initially.

 

On seeing the Consultant to assess the results, he said,

"So, you wake up in the middle of the night feeling sick, jump out of bed, and pass out?"

"Yes" I replied.

"Well, if you wake up in the middle of the night and feel sick, don't jump out of bed!"

 

Monty Python came to mind...

Edited February 19 by lowregisterhead

[Paul S]

2 minutes ago, lowregisterhead said:

 

Some sayings can be useful, others less so. Years ago I had an issue that was eventually pinned down to an interaction between two medications I was on. I would wake up in the middle of the night feeling really nauseous, jump out of bed in fear of being sick, then black out on the floor. Not pleasant, and it scared the Bejeesus out of the missus. I was given all sorts of blood tests, a 24-hour blood pressure monitor, and a ride strapped to a thing called a 'tilt table' to check for variations in blood pressure and the function my inner ear in different orientations, all to no avail initially.

 

On seeing the Consultant to assess the results, he said,

"So, you wake up in the middle of the night feeling sick, jump out of bed, and pass out?"

"Yes" I replied.

"Well, if you wake up in the middle of the night and feel sick, don't jump out of bed!"

 

Monty Python came to mind...

 

That sounds like the old Tommy Cooper joke

Doctor, my arm hurts in two places.

Well, don't go to those places then.

[Marc S]

Just wondering whether a combination of factors may help;

Do you play finger-style? It may be worth playing with a pick, if the problem is in fingers on your right hand.

 

Also, could lower tension strings help? I had some high tension flats on a bass, and some joints on my right hand were starting to ache - so I put low tension TI flats on that bass, and the problem stopped.

 

Re left hand / stretching issues, I find short scale basses a bit easier on the left hand these days.

 

Hope you can sort your problems and continue enjoying your bass playing. Best of luck. 

[Cliff Edge]

My fingers are starting to look a bit misshapen, particularly on the the left, fretting, hand. However no serious pain, more an ache, as yet. I can still play as good, or bad, as ever. I’ve been taking calcium and vitamin D tablets for a couple of years but apart from stronger finger nails I haven’t notice any difference. I do have a pair of those magic gloves but rarely wear them.

I do notice they feel better in the summer months and that is probably due to warmer weather and salads with Extra Virgin Olive Oil dressing. 
My wife is more seriously affected and has been for several years. She takes turmeric capsules but again it’s difficult to judge any effectiveness.
She has recently started taking collagen powder and her hair has thickened up considerably. I just mention that in case anyone is interested. 

[Geek99]

8 minutes ago, Cliff Edge said:

My fingers are starting to look a bit misshapen, particularly on the the left, fretting, hand. However no serious pain, more an ache, as yet. I can still play as good, or bad, as ever. I’ve been taking calcium and vitamin D tablets for a couple of years but apart from stronger finger nails I haven’t notice any difference. I do have a pair of those magic gloves but rarely wear them.

I do notice they feel better in the summer months and that is probably due to warmer weather and salads with Extra Virgin Olive Oil dressing. 
My wife is more seriously affected and has been for several years. She takes turmeric capsules but again it’s difficult to judge any effectiveness.
She has recently started taking collagen powder and her hair has thickened up considerably. I just mention that in case anyone is interested. 

Turmeric works better if it has black pepper aka circumin added to it

[Dan Dare]

I don't know whether this will be of help, but some years ago, I was having a lot of shoulder and neck pain when playing the fiddle (which used to be my main instrument). I went to an Alexander teacher, who made suggestions around improving my posture and the way I held and played the instrument. It really helped. We often get into habits that are less than kind to the body in order to get the job done. This can be especially true in the case of those who are self-taught. When we are younger, we can get away with it, but as we get older, things start coming home to roost. Worth exploring some technique lessons and experimenting with set-up of the instrument to ensure you're giving yourself the best chance? 

[Dan Dare]

Double post

Edited February 19 by Dan Dare

[PaulThePlug]

P...P...P...Pick(!)-up-a-Plectrum..

[Musicman666]

i started to get various aches and pains with old age ...after dosing up on across the board supplements including collagen the pains abated.  Not sure what i was lacking exactly but levels in your body do start to wain as you get older so maybe try this. 

[NoRhino]

21 hours ago, lowregisterhead said:

 

I'd recommend getting it assessed by a specialist sooner rather than later.

Definitely this. And during discussion tell them you're a musician and want to keep playing.  Good Rheumatology teams want patients to maintain their quality of life.  Ask about steroid injections in your wrist too.  

[Stub Mandrel]

Both thumbs. Playing is great therapy - activity is best treatment for arthritis!

 

Ibuprofen when a lot of gigs. Boswellia (frankincense) insanely effective if I  get a flare up  gets rid of pain in a day or two.

 

Been offered steriods, but kot there yet.

 

My brother (guitard, 8 years younger) had tapezium bone removed   lots of physio, can still play but started getting pain again after a year

[jonnybass]

22 hours ago, NoRhino said:

Definitely this. And during discussion tell them you're a musician and want to keep playing.  Good Rheumatology teams want patients to maintain their quality of life.  Ask about steroid injections in your wrist too.  

Thanks for the advice, working with the GP to try and figure out as much about this as possible...long process so far

[jonnybass]

21 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

Both thumbs. Playing is great therapy - activity is best treatment for arthritis!

 

Ibuprofen when a lot of gigs. Boswellia (frankincense) insanely effective if I  get a flare up  gets rid of pain in a day or two.

 

Been offered steriods, but kot there yet.

 

My brother (guitard, 8 years younger) had tapezium bone removed   lots of physio, can still play but started getting pain again after a year

Thanks good to hear, I'll see how I get on

[SteveK]

First off - I'm not really a believer in alternative medicines/therapies etc, but, whatever works... works!

 

About 10 years ago I started to get niggly twinges in my fingers that were gradually getting worse. A bit of online research pointed to the start of Arthritis.

Before going to the doctor I mentioned it to my sister-in-law, who is a nurse. She suggested trying Glucosamine Sulphate or Omega 3.

I bought 1000mg bottles of both (1 each daily). After 2 or 3 months there was definite improvement. 

For the last 10 years my fingers have been pain free. However, a couple of years ago, thinking that I was possibly wasting my money, I lapsed with the supplements - the twinges slowly returned. Needless to say, I was straight back to Holland and Barrett's. I'm now once again pain free.

 

It may well all be in my head, but, if it works, it works.

[jonnybass]

16 hours ago, SteveK said:

First off - I'm not really a believer in alternative medicines/therapies etc, but, whatever works... works!

 

About 10 years ago I started to get niggly twinges in my fingers that were gradually getting worse. A bit of online research pointed to the start of Arthritis.

Before going to the doctor I mentioned it to my sister-in-law, who is a nurse. She suggested trying Glucosamine Sulphate or Omega 3.

I bought 1000mg bottles of both (1 each daily). After 2 or 3 months there was definite improvement. 

For the last 10 years my fingers have been pain free. However, a couple of years ago, thinking that I was possibly wasting my money, I lapsed with the supplements - the twinges slowly returned. Needless to say, I was straight back to Holland and Barrett's. I'm now once again pain free.

 

It may well all be in my head, but, if it works, it works.

Hi Steve, like you Im not into alternative therapies, but some things work on a chemical/biological level.  Sounds like this works for you.  I'll l;ook into it.

 

jonny

[Stub Mandrel]

1 hour ago, jonnybass said:

Hi Steve, like you Im not into alternative therapies, but some things work on a chemical/biological level.  Sounds like this works for you.  I'll l;ook into it.

 

jonny

 

I wouldn't class glucosamine as an alternative therapy!

 

I found Bosswellia here... it's a list of herbal supplements and treatments with critiques of the research into their effects. I chose boswellia because although its effects are relatively mild, most people see a benefit.

 

https://www.arthritis.org/health-wellness/treatment/complementary-therapies/supplements-and-vitamins/supplement-and-herb-guide-for-arthritis-symptoms

 

[Munurmunuh]

I got psoriatic arthritis in my hands in my mid 30s. Unless you're up for the very strong drugs they can prescribe (pain in my hands seemed more attractive than their side effects) life for the hands is about evolving work-arounds. A pain slowly grows, your hand finds a way of operating that avoids that pain, slowly that pain decreases. And then your friends notice that you do things like unscrewing caps open in seemingly unusual ways.

 

In terms of bass playing: eg my thumb objects to being pressed against the middle of the back of the neck, and so has found ways of moving around that gives the fingers the necessary opposing force whilst providing variety in the pressure it's put under; my middle finger dislikes lateral pressure so it quickly complains if it's put under any when I'm working out the fingering for something. There's always more than one way to skin a cat.

[Munurmunuh]

Ibuprofen is great for the pain, but terrible for your innards when used regularly.

[lowregisterhead]

1 hour ago, Munurmunuh said:

I got psoriatic arthritis in my hands in my mid 30s. Unless you're up for the very strong drugs they can prescribe (pain in my hands seemed more attractive than their side effects) life for the hands is about evolving work-arounds. A pain slowly grows, your hand finds a way of operating that avoids that pain, slowly that pain decreases. And then your friends notice that you do things like unscrewing caps open in seemingly unusual ways.

 

In terms of bass playing: eg my thumb objects to being pressed against the middle of the back of the neck, and so has found ways of moving around that gives the fingers the necessary opposing force whilst providing variety in the pressure it's put under; my middle finger dislikes lateral pressure so it quickly complains if it's put under any when I'm working out the fingering for something. There's always more than one way to skin a cat.

 

You do learn to adapt to compensate for the pain and lack of mobility, but my concern would be that depending on the extent and frequency of the flare-ups, they can cause progressive damage to the joints over time, and eventually leave you in a much worse state than if you used medication long term.

 

I developed 'hot joints' in my hands in my 20's, put up with it into my 30's, and then the specialist suggested I start taking a drug once a week that I've been on for 25 years now. It's a fairly potent immunosuppressant that takes the peaks off the immune response that causes the problem in the first place, and it's generally kept a lid on things for all that time. The potential side effects will depend on the individual, but for me they've been relatively minor. I have a blood test every two months to monitor the effects of the drug on the rest of my system, but I seem to be able to tolerate it well. For me, it's a small price to pay for being able to continue to function pretty normally.

 

And you're right - use ibuprofen with great care. Despite being a seemingly innocuous 'over the counter' generic medicine, it kills thousands of people every year.

[Dan Dare]

2 hours ago, lowregisterhead said:

use ibuprofen with great care. Despite being a seemingly innocuous 'over the counter' generic medicine, it kills thousands of people every year.

 

Good advice regarding any drug therapy. Although they can be pretty well instant, chemical/drug routes can come with a hidden price. They may be convenient and require little to nothing of you save swallowing a pill or two, but the old advice - "If it hurts, stop doing it" has a lot going for it. That needn't mean stopping playing. Often, it means stopping playing in a certain manner or changing your posture - how you hold/use the instrument and so on.

 

We often develop ways of playing which can be injurious in the longer term. They may not matter that much when we are younger, fitter and more flexible, but after a few decades, they do.

 

The claw of death plucking hand - fingers hooked round the strings, pulling upwards with considerable force - is almost guaranteed not to do you any favours. Collapsing the fingering hand wrist against the neck and straining to reach notes with the fingers, or arching the wrist steeply and placing the hand under constant tension are both routes to pain and strain. The Ramones-style long strap, with the instrument round the knees, is a sure-fire route to back issues. The extra short strap, with the instrument up under the chin makes it likely that your plucking hand wrist will give problems because of the acute angle it's forced into. Plenty more examples.

 

A good idea to explore these first before resorting to drug/chemical options.

 

 

Edited February 24 by Dan Dare

[TheLowDown]

Can't beat a good diet(strangely overlooked by many), regular exercise, and light gauge strings with good technique. I tend to steer clear of any medicines unless forced.

Edited February 24 by TheLowDown

[lowregisterhead]

3 hours ago, Dan Dare said:

 

Good advice regarding any drug therapy. Although they can be pretty well instant, chemical/drug routes can come with a hidden price. They may be convenient and require little to nothing of you save swallowing a pill or two, but the old advice - "If it hurts, stop doing it" has a lot going for it. That needn't mean stopping playing. Often, it means stopping playing in a certain manner or changing your posture - how you hold/use the instrument and so on.

 

We often develop ways of playing which can be injurious in the longer term. They may not matter that much when we are younger, fitter and more flexible, but after a few decades, they do.

 

The claw of death plucking hand - fingers hooked round the strings, pulling upwards with considerable force - is almost guaranteed not to do you any favours. Collapsing the fingering hand wrist against the neck and straining to reach notes with the fingers, or arching the wrist steeply and placing the hand under constant tension are both routes to pain and strain. The Ramones-style long strap, with the instrument round the knees, is a sure-fire route to back issues. The extra short strap, with the instrument up under the chin makes it likely that your plucking hand wrist will give problems because of the acute angle it's forced into. Plenty more examples.

 

A good idea to explore these first before resorting to drug/chemical options.

 

 

 

All good advice. In the case of the issue likely being experienced the OP, and myself, unfortunately the problems haven't been brought on by bad technique, or wear and tear from decades of playing, in this specific instance it's due to an auto-immune condition. Over the years I've tried all manner of exclusion diets in case there was a link (although the consultants I've seen have said many times that over numerous studies none have been found) acupuncture and herbal remedies, which made no discernible difference, and I still take supplements of high strength Glucosamine and Omega 3 fish oils, which I've personally found certainly do seem to help keep things on an even keel.

 

The human body is an amazing thing, but the truth is there are still huge gaps in medical knowledge about how it all functions. I'm grateful there are some effective treatments available, but I also have a fairly healthy skepticism of sweeping judgements offered by consultants and specialists in the field, who you might think should have the experience and qualifications to know about these things. When I was a teenager, I knew a formidable lady called Marleen Ross, who with her husband Graeme ran a PA hire company in my hometown of Aberdeen in the 70's and 80's. She later went on to manage Celtic rock band Runrig. Like a lot of local musicians, I used to hang around in their shop in the city's King Street and pass the time of day. Before joining Graeme full-time in the music business, Marleen had been a nursing theatre Sister, and one day the subject of medicine came up. We all offered our experiences and opinions, but we really all wanted to know what Marleen thought, so asked for her view on the matter.

"Doctors?" she said. "F*cking plumbers in suits!"