Wal basses/pickups - 'new' v old wiring question

[Bass Culture]

Can anyone explain to me how the so-called new wiring for Wal pickups differs from the old wiring, and when it changed?  Also, what difference does it make in terms of tone?  I found myself pondering on this question when reading the various threads on BC that reference the characteristic Wal tone, and it occured to me that, given this change in how the pickups are wired, is the Wal tone the same now as it was pre-change? 

EDIT - Mods, please move to Repairs/Technical if you think that's the more appropriate location.

Edited February 21 by Bass Culture

[Cosmicrain]

14 minutes ago, Bass Culture said:

Can anyone explain to me how the so-called new wiring for Wal pickups differs from the old wiring, and when it changed?  Also, what difference does it make in terms of tone?  I found myself pondering on this question when reading the various threads on BC that reference the characteristic Wal tone, and it occured to me that, given this change in how the pickups are wired, is the Wal tone the same now as it was pre-change? 

EDIT - Mods, please move to Repairs/Technical if you think that's the more appropriate location.

Great question Mark, and I, for one, do not know the correct answer.

[Bass Culture]

46 minutes ago, Cosmicrain said:

Great question Mark, and I, for one, do not know the correct answer.

 

I'm sure the hive mind will prevail, Mike! 😊

[NikNik]

I thought the filter circuit was most of the Wal tone?

[Rich]

No, it's all down to the wood. 

[Bass Culture]

9 minutes ago, NikNik said:

I thought the filter circuit was most of the Wal tone?

 It undoubtedly makes a significant contribution, but seeing as passive Wal's reportedly also have the same characteristic 'core tone', I believe the pickups (and how they are wired?) make an equal or possibly even greater contribution.

[NikNik]

1 hour ago, Bass Culture said:

 It undoubtedly makes a significant contribution, but seeing as passive Wal's reportedly also have the same characteristic 'core tone', I believe the pickups (and how they are wired?) make an equal or possibly even greater contribution.

Ah, right! Ok.

[NikNik]

1 hour ago, Rich said:

No, it's all down to the wood. 

Tonewood, you mean??😆

[pineweasel]

I'm not aware of the pickup wiring ever being changed. Where did you hear about it?

[chris_b]

When was the wiring changed?

 

About 25 years ago, after hearing the fantastic tone from a JG Wal (with the leather pickguard), I asked Pete Stephens about the sound of the old basses. He  told me there was a slight change to the sound when they had to switch from imperial wire sizes to metric.

 

I can't comment on the OP's question, but differences are always possible when changing suppliers etc.

 

Why don't you give Paul Herman a call.

[Bass Culture]

1 hour ago, pineweasel said:

I'm not aware of the pickup wiring ever being changed. Where did you hear about it?

New wiring and old wiring are referred to in the Turner (I think, could be Herrick though) multicoil (I.e. 'Wal-type) pickup blurb and, I think, the Lusithand preamp copy too. I assumed it referred to Wal's wiring as these products are presented as very close alternatives to the Wal components on which they are obviously based. Funkle also refers to new wiring in his epic Building a Wal-a-like thread. Maybe I've misunderstood though, and these alternative wiring options apply to these new items only and not the Wal originals?  

[Baloney Balderdash]

I think I heard about this too, and more specifically how the individual coils for each pickup pole that the unique Wal pickups features are wired.

 

Think it has something to do with them either used to be or are now being wired in parallel pairs, as apposed to series pairs as they either used to be or are now being wired.

 

But yeah, think I have read about this before somewhere, and that it has something to do with what I mentioned above here, but not absolutely 100% certain, and can't remember the details and what is how they used to be wired and what is how they are wired now.

 

Edited February 22 by Baloney Balderdash

[admiralchew]

Possibly one for @TrevorR who put together this brilliant resource: http://walbasshistory.blogspot.com/?m=1

[NikNik]

1 hour ago, admiralchew said:

Possibly one for @TrevorR who put together this brilliant resource: http://walbasshistory.blogspot.com/?m=1

Excellent site! Thx for the link.

[dyerseve]

On 21/02/2024 at 14:22, Bass Culture said:

 It undoubtedly makes a significant contribution, but seeing as passive Wal's reportedly also have the same characteristic 'core tone', I believe the pickups (and how they are wired?) make an equal or possibly even greater contribution.

The passive Wals i have played Sound nothing like the active ones I have played. YMMV

[dyerseve]

I know that there is a difference in pickup size between older Wals and the newer ones - my 86 v a 91 I recently sold for example. The 86 also has a slighly different electronics package with less trim pots than the newer Version. 

Also the pickup position was ever so slightly different. 

[slowburnaz]

On 21/02/2024 at 10:46, Bass Culture said:

New wiring and old wiring are referred to in the Turner (I think, could be Herrick though) multicoil (I.e. 'Wal-type) pickup blurb and, I think, the Lusithand preamp copy too. I assumed it referred to Wal's wiring as these products are presented as very close alternatives to the Wal components on which they are obviously based. Funkle also refers to new wiring in his epic Building a Wal-a-like thread. Maybe I've misunderstood though, and these alternative wiring options apply to these new items only and not the Wal originals?  

 

Chris from Turner Pickups here...

 

The "old" pickups were wired internally such that each vertical row of 4 coils were all in series, effectively creating a single "coil" (just made of 4 small ones).  Then the 2 rows each had their own pair of leads, so the usual series/parallel options were available, like a normal humbucker.

 

The "new" pickups, which are used in modern Wals (Mk 1, 2, 3), are wired such that the 2 cols under a string are wired in series (RWRP so it's a small humbucker).  Each of these coil pairs have their own output, and all of these outputs are buffered and summed in each low pass filter.

 

 

I make my multicoil pickups in the "new" configuration, my "SEP" variant.
I also make a modified version of the "old" configuration that allows for Series, "Standard P", "Reverse P", and Parallel wirings (my "SPPP" variant).  The advantage here being that all wirings are humbucking.

 

See below...

SEP Variant

 

SPPP Variant

Edited March 4 by slowburnaz