God forbid...it's a question about guitar chords....

[Dad3353]

2 hours ago, paul_c2 said:

... A "bar" on the top 4 strings would be the notes (let's say the bar is at fret 2): E A C# F#, which is A6 (but the root isn't at the bottom of the chord, so you could describe it as A6/E if you wanted to....but with guitars, I bet someone else is playing the root.....)...

 

To me, that's F#m7; I'd be playing the root note on the bottom 'E' string, second fret, if there's no bass or keys playing, and mute (or just don't play...) the 'A' string. I'd drop the 'D' string down a semitone for the m6. I use these chords, along with Maj7 and Maj6 a lot. Just sayin'. 

[paul_c2]

56 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

 

To me, that's F#m7; I'd be playing the root note on the bottom 'E' string, second fret, if there's no bass or keys playing, and mute (or just don't play...) the 'A' string. I'd drop the 'D' string down a semitone for the m6. I use these chords, along with Maj7 and Maj6 a lot. Just sayin'. 

 

Yes indeed, F#m7 and A6 contain the same notes so both answers are correct. In a way, a "6" chord doesn't follow the convention of stacked thirds, so its a bit of an outlier. But the 6th is so common in pentatonic major (and other) scales; and is such a mild dissonance, that its quite common to see.

 

(It also works for other pairs - the 6 of the 6th chord is the root of a min7 chord).

[paul_c2]

1 hour ago, Dad3353 said:

 

To me, that's F#m7; I'd be playing the root note on the bottom 'E' string, second fret, if there's no bass or keys playing, and mute (or just don't play...) the 'A' string. I'd drop the 'D' string down a semitone for the m6. I use these chords, along with Maj7 and Maj6 a lot. Just sayin'. 

 

Or it could be played when you see B11 (and other rootless voicings are possible too).

[Dad3353]

1 hour ago, paul_c2 said:

Or it could be played when you see B11 (and other rootless voicings are possible too).

 

 I'd probably never 'see' a B11, as I play (read 'noodle'...) my own stuff, based around what I've retained from my Mickey Baker books from the '60s. Maj7, m7, Maj6, m6, a few other odds and sods for 'turnarounds' and that's about it. I can spin this little amount out for hours; my sons and friends usually take the guitar away from me after a while. 

(Oh, yes, some 7th chords sprinkled in there, too  ...)

[bass_dinger]

9 hours ago, Dad3353 said:

Mickey Baker books from the '60s.

I am intrigued, so I did a search,  and found  "Mickey Baker's Complete Course in Jazz Guitar".

 

Would you recommend it to someone who wants to understand and play jazz guitar?

[Paolo85]

2 hours ago, bass_dinger said:

I am intrigued, so I did a search,  and found  "Mickey Baker's Complete Course in Jazz Guitar".

 

Would you recommend it to someone who wants to understand and play jazz guitar?

I bought it, I would say it's probably good if you are already a good player and do it on the side of other stuff. It is very old school. I think most teachers or courses nowdays would take a standard, learn stuff through that and build knowledge through songs. The Micky Baker's book is more "now spend a month working on these hand-crushing chords" (for which by the way it does not suggest finger positions). For me, a beginner, it was a bit frustrating and boring so I gave up.

Also, people more in the knowledge than me say a lot of the theory is not explained.

Edited February 25 by Paolo85

[Nicko]

4 hours ago, bass_dinger said:

I am intrigued, so I did a search,  and found  "Mickey Baker's Complete Course in Jazz Guitar".

 

Would you recommend it to someone who wants to understand and play jazz guitar?

I think I had this book many years ago.  As Paulo85 says there are some extremely challenging chord shapes even for intermediate players, but more importantly I don't recall it being very good to understand the context or relationship between those chords so the answer IMHO is no.  That may be because I didn't get very far though the course as jazz isn't my bag anyway. 

 

Online courses or better still a decent teacher is the best way to progress.  I spent maybe 10 years trying to learn from books before taking lessons and I learnt more in the 2 years of lessons than I had from books.

[Dad3353]

6 hours ago, bass_dinger said:

I am intrigued, so I did a search,  and found  "Mickey Baker's Complete Course in Jazz Guitar".

 

Would you recommend it to someone who wants to understand and play jazz guitar?

 

A thousand times 'Yes', without reserve. A gold mine, and at a ridiculously low price. A no-brainer. I've worn out several copies, and always buy it again; I still consult it often. Did I mention 'Yes'..? 

[Dad3353]

6 hours ago, Paolo85 said:

I bought it, I would say it's probably good if you are already a good player and do it on the side of other stuff. It is very old school. I think most teachers or courses nowdays would take a standard, learn stuff through that and build knowledge through songs. The Micky Baker's book is more "now spend a month working on these hand-crushing chords" (for which by the way it does not suggest finger positions). For me, a beginner, it was a bit frustrating and boring so I gave up.

Also, people more in the knowledge than me say a lot of the theory is not explained.

 

I bought my first copy from the fusty-dusty music shop (Bell Music, Hounslow...) at the same time as my first guitar, a Russian-built classical guitar, strung with cheese wire steel strings. A wide, flat neck, a bolt through the neck heel to hold it in place; in fairness I knew no better back then (mid '60s...). I spent a year or so on the first chord chart page, changing from G to GMaj7, to GMaj6, then GMin7, GMin6, chromatically up and down the telegraph pole neck, then the chord substitution examples, and built-in melodies. It stood me in good stead for the decades since; I've added much theory from other sources, and have a pile of jazz methods and chord dictionaries of all sorts. I might not recommend Mickey Baker as one's sole source of knowledge, but what's in there is quite definitely valuable stuff, and well worth the effort, even as a complete novice. It inspired me, for instance, to acquire my first Hofner arch-top (President Thin Florentine cut, tobacco burst E2, that I was a fool to not keep; I've been looking for another ever since...). After the Russian guitar, all talk of 'playability' and 'neck width', on guitar or bass, bring out a wry smile from me. It's like the bloke who always bought size 8 shoes, when his feet were size 9. When asked why, he would reply 'It's such a great feeling when I take them off'. 

[BigRedX]

One of the most important things I learnt when playing guitar in bands is that you don't have to play every note of those finger breaking chords. There will be at least one other instrument that you can pass off some of those notes to. And sometimes no-one needs to be playing them at all - they are implied by what happens either side of the chord. It's all in the arrangement.

[Mykesbass]

As @BigRedX says.

 

Freddie Green - perhaps the greatest Jazz rhythm guitarist of all time mainly played on 4 strings.

[Baloney Balderdash]

On 24/02/2024 at 14:41, Nicko said:

Some would argue that bass players should already have an intimate knowledge of chord theory.  Unless you are playing root notes how else do you know what fits?

Well, sure your ear will tell you.

 

I could ask how do you know what to play if you can't hear it?

 

If music was really just simple mathematics we might as well have an AI play for you.

 

Mind this is not to say that theory isn't in fact a very useful tool, cause it definitely is, just a reminder of what comes first in music.

 

Just using your ears and knowing your instrument will let you play just about everything, theory won't (though it definitely can help with you actually getting to know your instrument, help give you ideas and options, and not least allow you to communicate your music clearer to others, outside of playing it all by yourself).

 

Also regarding chords on bass, this is an amazing online app for finding out chords, and chord notes and scales all over the fretboard: https://chord.rocks/bass-guitar/

 

Edited February 26 by Baloney Balderdash
https://chord.rocks/bass-guitar/

[Nicko]

22 hours ago, Dad3353 said:

Bell Music, Hounslow..

Now there's a distant memory of a mis spent youth (mine not yours).

[Dad3353]

2 minutes ago, Nicko said:

Now there's a distant memory of a mis spent youth (mine not yours).

 

Coincidence..? I'm from Norfolk, originally. Small world..? 

[Nicko]

1 minute ago, Dad3353 said:

 

Coincidence..? I'm from Norfolk, originally. Small world..? 

I grew up in Heston and bought my first house in Bedfont - I only moved to Norfolk 15 months ago so I'm doing the reverse. If you'd also lived in Harrow we could complete the set.

 

Bell music was the closest music shop to me until Project Music moved to the A4 at Lampton.  

 

 

[Dad3353]

6 minutes ago, Nicko said:

I grew up in Heston and bought my first house in Bedfont - I only moved to Norfolk 15 months ago so I'm doing the reverse. If you'd also lived in Harrow we could complete the set.

 

Bell music was the closest music shop to me until Project Music moved to the A4 at Lampton.  

 

From Norwich, originally, but the family relocated to Bedfont when I was eight; I left for Shepperton at twenty, and for France at twenty-five ('75...). Happy daze; the local bus numbers still come to mind whenever they crop up (116 to Hounslow or Staines, 285 to Hampton for school or Kingston, 237 for Chertsey etc...).