Modellers/multi effects: Rethinking everything

[TRBboy]

Hey everybody! 👋😊

 

My initial excitement after trying the HX Stomp out on Saturday is fading, as I realise that I only really use a few sounds with my band, and it's probably overkill.

 

However, I do really like the idea of having one box that can do everything, and also be used for guitar, as I'd like to get back into home recording.

 

So I've been looking at cheaper options, that balance good sound and features, at a reasonable price point. The Sonicake Matribox 2 has come into my radar, and looks like a really good unit! Does anyone have any experience with this, or anything similar? Would the effect sounds be as good as my individual pedals (drive sounds predominantly).

 

Picture of my current pedalboard below, I use the M80 for my 'light drive' sound which I use pretty regularly, the Boss for my heavier drive, and the zoom for 'occasional' effects that I don't actually use that often (mainly chorus on a couple of songs, very occasionally fuzz, octave or phaser). I enjoy having a wah to use when the mood takes me, but it's not critical.

 

Any help/suggestions/insight much appreciated.

[MrDinsdale]

I’d think of the HX as a utility pedal, you can pop it on your board and hook in your favourite dedicated pedals with the fx loops. Even if you don’t use many of the fx they’re there should you need it not to mention all the EQ options there.

 

That’s how I use the Boss GTcore, I’ve come to terms that it’s mostly acting to normalise levels for different instruments, noise gate and EQ stuff. It’s there if I ever want a looper or to experiment with different effects.

 

Having access to all those fx and options is an excellent way to curb GAS issues too.

 

Not really an answer to your question but hopefully a useful counterpoint 😂

[lidl e]

Maybe a two notes opus ?

 

Thatcand the zoom will give you everything youre looking for i think. 

[LukeFRC]

The HX stomp, in my mind is in a class of its own. 
If you're going digital effects, for price/size/features and everything it's well worth it. 
 

58 minutes ago, TRBboy said:

I do really like the idea of having one box that can do everything, and also be used for guitar, as I'd like to get back into home recording.

It is exactly this. ESP if you're thinking of guitar it's even more useful. 
Of your current pedal board it can replace everything but the volume pedal and wireless. 

And they hold value secondhand consistently, which can't really be said for the sonicake.... 

 

I would just find a HX stomp secondhand... if you don't like it, sell it on

[TRBboy]

Thanks guys, all good thoughts! Will carry on exploring this and looking at reviews etc.

[LukeFRC]

I have had the Zoom B3, then B3n (and still a MS70cdr) and the HX is a step up IMO. 
It is more than good enough. And you can buy that and know it's as good as you can get for your money... I was looking recently for a digital pedal but only for delay reverb and some modulation.... the choice was cheap (the MS70cdr) through to expensive (H90) and in the middle the HX ... which I don't think anything gets close to feature set etc.

That said I did sell mine - but that was to move away from digital multifx 

 

 

[fretmeister]

My recording set up is built around a Helix rack. The entire HX line is amazing. It is very versatile, the sounds are fantastic and I never feel like "I wish I had X, then I could do..." type things.

 

I reckon I have 4 main bass sounds with it + the odd sprinkling of FX when needed. But it also does all my guitar recording, and I use loads of different sounds for that, always double tracked at least.

 

As I've got the rack it is also my Mic Pre as it has a dedicated mic input with phantom power too.

I'm thinking of getting a Stomp to put on my board as well though.

 

If you are looking for a cheaper option than the Stomp - get a used one rather than something less capable.

[TRBboy]

Aaaargghhh! I'm so terrible at making decisions 😅😬😵‍💫

 

I keep flip flopping on it, and this afternoon was pretty decided on just getting a zoom B1 Four! 😅

 

@fretmeister I've been looking out for used Stomps, but they seem to go for around £400 anyway, so I don't know if it's better just to get a new one and have the warranty, as it's not much more.

 

Genuine question guys: although the stomp is clearly well respected, it has been out for a while, and I get the impression that a lot of die-hard digital/modelling guys are viewing the Line 6 range as slightly 'old hat' now compared to their competitors. What are your thoughts on this? How 'future-proof' is the stomp? Is there likely to be a newer version in the near future?

 

Thanks 🙏

[MrDinsdale]

Even if it was at end of life, it still sounds great and does more than enough. You could hold out and try to get a bargain if people start upgrading to a new shiny product. 

 

It still seems to be doing well, it could be a couple of years before a new version is out and even longer until a Stomp sized replacement is released. Or it could be tomorrow. 

[MrDinsdale]

One thing Helix has which stuff like the GT1000core is missing is a healthy community sharing patches etc. It’s worth having a look at some of the supporting stuff. 

[LukeFRC]

44 minutes ago, TRBboy said:

Aaaargghhh! I'm so terrible at making decisions 😅😬😵‍💫

 

I keep flip flopping on it, and this afternoon was pretty decided on just getting a zoom B1 Four! 😅

 

@fretmeister I've been looking out for used Stomps, but they seem to go for around £400 anyway, so I don't know if it's better just to get a new one and have the warranty, as it's not much more.

 

Genuine question guys: although the stomp is clearly well respected, it has been out for a while, and I get the impression that a lot of die-hard digital/modelling guys are viewing the Line 6 range as slightly 'old hat' now compared to their competitors. What are your thoughts on this? How 'future-proof' is the stomp? Is there likely to be a newer version in the near future?

 

Thanks 🙏

The last few on here secondhand have been £300-320 ... they are about... 

Is it end of line? Well yes and no. 

It's a digital effect... at some point it's going to be outdated, probably in more than 20 years time, but still.... will there will be some new shiny thing in the future, yes, will the "upgrade" be much more than what the Helix line is now? Maybe modelling of guitar amps maybe, but I question how much difference/improvement it would make for bass where the needs are slightly different...

 

 Also the last update was only a few months ago, and the HX one has just come out, while it's clearly a way of spinning the line out (like a mid stage face lift on a car) it's not like they could not support something thats only just come out.... 

 

And, crucially, is there anything out, in a similar price bracket with the similar features that is better? not really. 

 

 

 

 

 

(total curveball, if you wanted the volume/wah the full size Helix secondhand loose more value than the stomp, and in some ways for big digital multifx it has more competition than the stomp) 

 

[Al Krow]

1 hour ago, LukeFRC said:

The last few on here secondhand have been £300-320 ... they are about... 

Is it end of line? Well yes and no. 

It's a digital effect... at some point it's going to be outdated, probably in more than 20 years time, but still.... will there will be some new shiny thing in the future, yes, will the "upgrade" be much more than what the Helix line is now? Maybe modelling of guitar amps maybe, but I question how much difference/improvement it would make for bass where the needs are slightly different...

 

 Also the last update was only a few months ago, and the HX one has just come out, while it's clearly a way of spinning the line out (like a mid stage face lift on a car) it's not like they could not support something thats only just come out.... 

 

And, crucially, is there anything out, in a similar price bracket with the similar features that is better? not really. 

 

 

 

 

 

(total curveball, if you wanted the volume/wah the full size Helix secondhand loose more value than the stomp, and in some ways for big digital multifx it has more competition than the stomp) 

 

Arguably the GT1000 Core is comparable / better and in a similar price bracket?

 

@TRBboy you got me interested in the Sonicake! Looking at some of the online reviews it seems to suffer from significant (10ms) latency as a key drawback,which will layer with any latency you have in the rest of your signal chain. Can add up and become noticeable. 

[TRBboy]

1 hour ago, LukeFRC said:

The last few on here secondhand have been £300-320 ... they are about... 

Is it end of line? Well yes and no. 

It's a digital effect... at some point it's going to be outdated, probably in more than 20 years time, but still.... will there will be some new shiny thing in the future, yes, will the "upgrade" be much more than what the Helix line is now? Maybe modelling of guitar amps maybe, but I question how much difference/improvement it would make for bass where the needs are slightly different...

 

 Also the last update was only a few months ago, and the HX one has just come out, while it's clearly a way of spinning the line out (like a mid stage face lift on a car) it's not like they could not support something thats only just come out.... 

 

And, crucially, is there anything out, in a similar price bracket with the similar features that is better? not really. 

 

 

 

 

 

(total curveball, if you wanted the volume/wah the full size Helix secondhand loose more value than the stomp, and in some ways for big digital multifx it has more competition than the stomp) 

 

Oh wow, I've not seen any going so cheap, will keep my eyes peeled!

[Skybone]

If the HX Stomp is too much, but you like the thought of the "all-in-one" box, that you can use for guitar as well...

 

Have you considered the POD Go?

 

The models on it are all from the Helix, amps, cabs & effects, you can use IR's, you can use snapshots, but there are obviously some differences. No parallel processing, limited no. of effects to each patch. However, it's still a really flexible unit that sounds great.

[LukeFRC]

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

Arguably the GT1000 Core is comparable / better and in a similar price bracket?

I forgot that - used tend to go for more mind! 

[Al Krow]

2 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

I forgot that - used tend to go for more mind! 

 

Yeah, there's maybe a reason for that 😅

[TRBboy]

1 hour ago, Skybone said:

If the HX Stomp is too much, but you like the thought of the "all-in-one" box, that you can use for guitar as well...

 

Have you considered the POD Go?

 

The models on it are all from the Helix, amps, cabs & effects, you can use IR's, you can use snapshots, but there are obviously some differences. No parallel processing, limited no. of effects to each patch. However, it's still a really flexible unit that sounds great.

Thanks, will check it out!

[BigRedX]

13 hours ago, TRBboy said:

Genuine question guys: although the stomp is clearly well respected, it has been out for a while, and I get the impression that a lot of die-hard digital/modelling guys are viewing the Line 6 range as slightly 'old hat' now compared to their competitors. What are your thoughts on this? How 'future-proof' is the stomp? Is there likely to be a newer version in the near future?

 

The thing with the current Line6 HX/Helix range is that all the upgrades are done in software. Not only that but they are all free. So although my Helix Floor looks the same as it did when I bought it six years ago, inside it's is very different. I'm currently on V3.7 of the firmware and I believe that there is at least one update that I haven't yet got around to installing. There was a major update a while back that improved most of the amp and cab models so that they used less processing power, which allowed you to have even more modules in a preset (not that I have ever come close to running out of processing power yet). 

 

I'm sure at some point there will be some major improvement which will technically render the current range "obsolete". But so what? As long as the devices still work they are still relevant. After all there's musicians using amps, cabs and pedals with technology that is at least 40 years old and they seem to be perfectly happy. My Helix does 99% of the things that I want and does all of those things perfectly. The 1% it doesn't do are highly specialised to my needs (MIDI-triggered gates and filters) and although I have a request in, I suspect my requirements are a long way down the list of priorities. However I've found work-arounds for what is missing.

 

I've been using programmable multi-effects for 35 years now and the Helix is by far the best in absolutely every respect.

[TRBboy]

37 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

 

The thing with the current Line6 HX/Helix range is that all the upgrades are done in software. Not only that but they are all free. So although my Helix Floor looks the same as it did when I bought it six years ago, inside it's is very different. I'm currently on V3.7 of the firmware and I believe that there is at least one update that I haven't yet got around to installing. There was a major update a while back that improved most of the amp and cab models so that they used less processing power, which allowed you to have even more modules in a preset (not that I have ever come close to running out of processing power yet). 

 

I'm sure at some point there will be some major improvement which will technically render the current range "obsolete". But so what? As long as the devices still work they are still relevant. After all there's musicians using amps, cabs and pedals with technology that is at least 40 years old and they seem to be perfectly happy. My Helix does 99% of the things that I want and does all of those things perfectly. The 1% it doesn't do are highly specialised to my needs (MIDI-triggered gates and filters) and although I have a request in, I suspect my requirements are a long way down the list of priorities. However I've found work-arounds for what is missing.

 

I've been using programmable multi-effects for 35 years now and the Helix is by far the best in absolutely every respect.

Very, very valid points BRX! And you're absolutely right, especially as I'm a pretty sparse effects user, it would probably do me forever. I've been happily using the zoom B3 for at least 10 years 🤷

[TRBboy]

Another consideration then; what does everyone think about the HX One?

[Bigwan]

38 minutes ago, TRBboy said:

Another consideration then; what does everyone think about the HX One?

Pointless form factor...

 

I know there are people who will think it's what they've been looking for their whole playing career, but I would imagine they're few and far between. I just don't see the point of it given the price. The sacrifice in flexibility from any of the other HX/Helix line is crazy. Even if you could run a couple of effects at once I could see the allure, but just one for £250 quid? Granted it's cheaper than a Noble... but still... Nope...

Edited March 5 by Bigwan

[franzbassist]

My Boss MS-3 has been terrific for a number of years, but being fickle I fancy a change and the Helix range appeal to me.

 

I'm not really interested in amp and cab sims, so the HX Effects is the front runner for me.  I initially liked the HX One, but I think BIgwan has nailed it as to why it's not the pedal to get even if it sounds great.

 

But then, I really like my MS-3 so should probably just stick with that!

[MrDinsdale]

I think the HX One is a tough sell against the Stomp in terms of value for money. If I was in the market for a delay/reverb or something then it’s a pretty tempting proposition. Especially compared to some of the boutique stuff out there. 

[Greg Edwards69]

I largely agree with @BigRedX. I've been using my Helix LT for around 5 or 6 years now. I honestly think the Helix platform is the most fully featured and accessible multifx unit around for bassists at a reasonable price. Not to mention they keep adding new features, for free.

 

It's not perfect - there's a couple of things I'd love to see addressed in a future hardware update (Bluetooth audio streaming and Bluetooth midi, more than one split on a path, USB-C, a proper synth engine) but they are no deal breakers. And when I look at alternative hardware, I struggle to find anything that does exactly what I want it to do in one box, that I know I can achieve with the Helix.

 

In fact, I struggled for years with other multifx and stompboxes, sometimes mixing them together. Nobody made a unit at the time that was affordable and did everything I needed it to do (split and parallel paths, global eq, specific drive and multiple compressors). Then the helix came along and it ticked pretty much every box on my wish list. And it completely changed how I thought about live rigs, in that I don;t need an amp and cab on stage anymore. Going direct to PA and/or a personal frfr speaker with amp modelling is one area I really wish I had explored much earlier, even with older multifx units I've had (I sometimes get the urge to pickup an old Boss GT6B just to see if I can program it better with the experience I've gained over the years).

[BigRedX]

And as I have said many times before, selling my old (big and heavy) bass and guitar rigs paid for me to buy a Helix Floor and RCF745 FRFR cab new and come away with a slight profit. And on hindsight I could have got away with a lesser (cheaper) FRFR as it only gets used for rehearsals with one band and the occasional smaller gigs where the quality of the foldback is unknown.