ossyrocks Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 Ok, so please bear with me, this is something I don't have any experience of. My vintage Fender Bassman is back home after a total ground up rebuild, and it sounds pretty darn good. I'm thinking of making this my main amp for small gigs with the blues band. Now, I'm a very basic sort of player - Bass -> Amp. nothing else. But I do see that I will be required to DI into a PA on occasion for extra reinforcement, and there's talk of a gig at the end of the month like this. My old Bassman doesn't have a DI out like my modern amps, so my initial thoughts are that I've seen lots of PA guys provide a DI box which splits your signal between your amp and the desk. Amp on stage for monitoring, DI signal to the desk for PA. But their DI boxes are rather generic, so I imagine the desk is getting a signal very similar to just plugging my bass directly into a channel on the desk. I'm wondering if I need my own pre-amp, which is a bit nicer sounding, to do the split, and then I can send something worthwhile to the front of house. I'd like to just sit something on top if my amp and forget about it. Thoughts on a postcard please! Cheers, Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunderwonder Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 Countryman 85 DI. So long as your amp isn't noisy your amp signal will go through to the desk with no drama. Best to have a flat respsonse full range cabinet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwan Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 (edited) 1 hour ago, Downunderwonder said: Countryman 85 DI. So long as your amp isn't noisy your amp signal will go through to the desk with no drama. Best to have a flat respsonse full range cabinet. The 85 is a straight-up DI, it won't handle the output of an amp. It goes between the bass and amp. Wrong - looking at the wrong product altogether It sounds like what you're after is a preamp with some tonal control. If you nip over to the effects forum you'll find plenty of options mentioned. Nicest I've tried in a while is the Origin Effects Bassrig Super Vintage, which is Ampeg-flavoured, but they also do a Fender-flavoured one, the Bassrig '64. Sounds like it could be exactly what you're after. Quality items. If you want the sound of your amp, you could consider something like the Two Notes Torpedo Captor which is a load box that goes between your amp and speaker cab and provides a DI output Edited March 6 by Bigwan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunderwonder Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 Eh? The 85 has two inputs. One for speaker signal and the other is your usual DI instrument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ossyrocks Posted March 6 Author Share Posted March 6 16 minutes ago, Downunderwonder said: Countryman 85 DI. So long as your amp isn't noisy your amp signal will go through to the desk with no drama. Best to have a flat respsonse full range cabinet. I've just had a look at those. The fact that I can run it between my amp and cab, then send the amp signal to the desk is good. But that would be a full range signal uncoloured by a cab. I imagine there would be more highs present than I'm hearing on stage. I gues that why you said best run with a FRFR cab. I'm running it with a Barefaced Super Compact, no tweeter, so I think it's rolling some highs off. Whatever I choose, I also don't want it to colour/affect the signal from my bass to the amp. I just want a nice signal to send to FOH. It's not straightforward is it ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunderwonder Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 Easy for most desks to roll off the highs. Your SC is more flat response than most cabs. Your other option is to mic the cab. Expect a lot of pushback from sound yobbos that never did it before and expect doom. You can avert most of it by being hyper organised with your mic and stand so you are ready to go from your mic to their DI XLR in or just the lead, before they go messing with your lead to amp. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirellithecat Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 My (limited) experience with Sound Engineers is that they "want" a pre EQ DI feed so that what you do by way of changing settings on the amp during the set doesn't affect their settings on the mixer. So generally they prefer a straight DI from your bass. This is beneficial in some ways as it leaves you more freedom to adjust your amp to get the stage sound you want should the need arise. So that's a very simple arrangement and if its a passive DI needs no power supply etc and can be relatively inexpensive (check out Behringer). The DI box matches the output impedence to that required by the mixer so it's not quite the same as just plugging your bass into the mixer. Another option is the Behringer BDI21 which is an pre-amp/DI - one went on here for £20 recently. Good Luck!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ossyrocks Posted March 6 Author Share Posted March 6 I'm reading some conflicting info about the need for a passive or active DI? I play strictly passive Fender P and J basses. Reading about the Radial stuff, they are saying I need an active DI because I don't have an active bass. This relies on there being phantom power supplied from the desk. Confused! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 39 minutes ago, Pirellithecat said: My (limited) experience with Sound Engineers is that they "want" a pre EQ DI feed so that what you do by way of changing settings on the amp during the set doesn't affect their settings on the mixer. So generally they prefer a straight DI from your bass. This is beneficial in some ways as it leaves you more freedom to adjust your amp to get the stage sound you want should the need arise. So that's a very simple arrangement and if its a passive DI needs no power supply etc and can be relatively inexpensive (check out Behringer). The DI box matches the output impedence to that required by the mixer so it's not quite the same as just plugging your bass into the mixer. Another option is the Behringer BDI21 which is an pre-amp/DI - one went on here for £20 recently. Good Luck!! I agree this is what many in-house engineers would like and not an issue for a lot of folk... only problem is when the sound you are trying to create is integral to the band's overall sound. I play in a band where my bass/amp sound needs to try and replicate a particular tone (12 string sounding with a bit of drive on the top end). I specifically split my signal with the 'dry' signal going to the front end of my amp (to give a nice big bass tone), with the split signal going to a HPF > drive pedal > chorus/octave > to the rear attenuated input on my amp; I then blend in the effected signal to suit. This can then be easily sent premixed from my amps DI to a PA desk. Except when you get an engineer who is trying to insist he wants the DI before any of that stuff so that he can get a nice clean signal and get a traditional bass tone FOH. No thanks mate you've missed the point! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 If what you want is the sound of your amp / speaker combination going to FOH, then just mic up the speaker, neh? That way you're guaranteed to get exactly the sound you want, and you don't need no stinkin' DI boxes neither. 😱😂 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 (edited) 1 hour ago, Downunderwonder said: Countryman 85 DI. So long as your amp isn't noisy your amp signal will go through to the desk with no drama. Best to have a flat respsonse full range cabinet. 1 hour ago, Downunderwonder said: Eh? The 85 has two inputs. One for speaker signal and the other is your usual DI instrument. 1 hour ago, ossyrocks said: I've just had a look at those. The fact that I can run it between my amp and cab, then send the amp signal to the desk is good. But that would be a full range signal uncoloured by a cab. I imagine there would be more highs present than I'm hearing on stage. I gues that why you said best run with a FRFR cab. I'm running it with a Barefaced Super Compact, no tweeter, so I think it's rolling some highs off. Whatever I choose, I also don't want it to colour/affect the signal from my bass to the amp. I just want a nice signal to send to FOH. It's not straightforward is it ! That`s the DI I was thinking of. seeing as it can go between amp & speaker, but couldn`t remember the name. The more highs above 4kHz to the desk might work to your advantage, enabling the sound desk to have a better balanced signal. Edited March 6 by Lozz196 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwan Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 1 hour ago, Downunderwonder said: Eh? The 85 has two inputs. One for speaker signal and the other is your usual DI instrument. There was me looking at something completely different like a numpty... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chienmortbb Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 1 hour ago, Pirellithecat said: Another option is the Behringer BDI21 which is an pre-amp/DI - one went on here for £20 recently. Good Luck!! That is a good choice except that it has a built in mid scoop. I use the Orchid Classic and it is great. it does take the signal to the PA as it comes form your bass but it sound lie it would suit you well. I have a couple and could lend you one for a week or two. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudewheresmybass Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 (edited) something akin to the mxr m80 or Laney Digbeth pre might be an option They are both decent Di units with EQ and tonal options. What separates these from the Sansamp and clones is that there is no baked in eq as standard. They also have a straight through option, so your amp tone is unaffected and you have the eq control of that which goes to the desk Edited March 6 by dudewheresmybass 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ossyrocks Posted March 6 Author Share Posted March 6 The Countryman looks a cracking bit of kit, but I can only find one place to buy it, and it's £336 plus shipping. I like nice kit, and I don't mind paying for it, but this seems like a rather luxurious purchase which will get limited use. https://ambersound.co.uk/collections/countryman/products/cou-dt85 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ossyrocks Posted March 6 Author Share Posted March 6 2 hours ago, Chienmortbb said: That is a good choice except that it has a built in mid scoop. I use the Orchid Classic and it is great. it does take the signal to the PA as it comes form your bass but it sound lie it would suit you well. I have a couple and could lend you one for a week or two. I do like simple and easy, and these look good. Thank you for your generous offer, but at these prices I might just get one for the gig bag anyway. https://www.showbitz.co.uk/product/orchid-electronics-classic-di-box/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 Adding a balanced DI XLR output jack to a valve amp is easy if you know what you're doing. The + and - signal is tapped at the input/output of the power amp section inverter, capacitor isolated and resistor attenuated. It's been a while since I've done it but as I recall 0.1uF and 10k Ohms will do the job. It's even possible to use a stereo pot for level control. A good valve tech will know exactly what you mean when you ask about it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirellithecat Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 42 minutes ago, ossyrocks said: I do like simple and easy, and these look good. Thank you for your generous offer, but at these prices I might just get one for the gig bag anyway. https://www.showbitz.co.uk/product/orchid-electronics-classic-di-box/ We use these at our local Music Events organisation - our sound tech swears by them and he gets a great sound. !! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chienmortbb Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 1 hour ago, ossyrocks said: https://ambersound.co.uk/collections/countryman/products/cou-dt85 That is the one (two actually) that I use. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelDean Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 Ashdown do a similar device for less money: https://ashdownmusic.com/products/b-stock-phone-box-headphone-out-di-box Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chienmortbb Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 14 minutes ago, MichaelDean said: Ashdown do a similar device for less money: https://ashdownmusic.com/products/b-stock-phone-box-headphone-out-di-box probably a better bet? I wonder why they say just SS amps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelDean Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 2 hours ago, Chienmortbb said: probably a better bet? I wonder why they say just SS amps? Ah, missed that SS amps caveat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassmanPaul Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 Worst case stick a microphone in front of the cabinet. I couldn't gig with a Bassman back in the Sixties so you'll need some support unless you just like fuzz bass. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunderwonder Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 5 hours ago, ossyrocks said: The Countryman looks a cracking bit of kit, but I can only find one place to buy it, and it's £336 plus shipping. I like nice kit, and I don't mind paying for it, but this seems like a rather luxurious purchase which will get limited use. https://ambersound.co.uk/collections/countryman/products/cou-dt85 They are massively gouging on the price. 325 NZD with free shipping here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Nada Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 (edited) 5 hours ago, ossyrocks said: The Countryman looks a cracking bit of kit, but I can only find one place to buy it, and it's £336 plus shipping. I like nice kit, and I don't mind paying for it, but this seems like a rather luxurious purchase which will get limited use. https://ambersound.co.uk/collections/countryman/products/cou-dt85 This Behringer DI might be worth a punt, if you want something short term, or just to try as proof of concept. Less than £40. It allows for connection between amp and speaker. I've used one for the purpose of running a 'tap' off a PA system, with good results. https://www.gear4music.com/PA-DJ-and-Lighting/Behringer-DI100-Ultra-DI-Box/2BI?origin=product-ads&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAxaCvBhBaEiwAvsLmWIqwyGg1Mbmiesh5RYXHvjjP3erUCD01QnvWoh3I44iZaihW8kCNERoC8ucQAvD_BwE Edited March 6 by James Nada Typo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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