Battery Drain

[SuperSeagull]

You might recall I had a nightmare with the batteries on my Status giving up halfway through a gig recently. Consequently I'm a bit obsessed with checking them pre gig. Today I've put both on a meter - one reads 8.7v, the other 8.5v versus 9.6v on a brand new one. These were replaced at the end of Jan, since then I estimate the bass has been used / plugged in for between 24 and 28 hours. Does that sound like a reasonable drain - appreciate it's variable but I was surprised at those readings. And at what level does a battery become unusable? I've played active for years and never worried about this, just had a regular regime of replacing batteries. I'm curious!

[LeftyJ]

That's not reasonable. The batteries on both my Status S2 Classic preamps (one Board 300 and one Board 303) have lasted a long time. I don't recall replacing them since I bought them both (in 2017 I believe - but maybe I have once). I don't play my 4-string much, but the 5-string has seen regular rehearsals and a few gigs and gets used at home occasionally (a few hours per month - I play my shortscales the most at home) and so far they're still good.

 

Were they batteries that you've had for a longer period of time, or did you buy them brand new? They should have a best before-date stamped on them somewhere.

If that's not the problem, then maybe your bass has developed a short circuit somewhere (in the jack, or the battery box itself)? I would suggest having it looked at by a tech. 

[SuperSeagull]

Thanks. Procells with a best before of 3/27. Going to try some duracells and see how they compare I think. If still not right then it's to a tech. 

[sandy_r]

1 hour ago, SuperSeagull said:

You might recall I had a nightmare with the batteries on my Status giving up halfway through a gig recently. Consequently I'm a bit obsessed with checking them pre gig. Today I've put both on a meter - one reads 8.7v, the other 8.5v versus 9.6v on a brand new one. These were replaced at the end of Jan, since then I estimate the bass has been used / plugged in for between 24 and 28 hours. Does that sound like a reasonable drain - appreciate it's variable but I was surprised at those readings. And at what level does a battery become unusable? I've played active for years and never worried about this, just had a regular regime of replacing batteries. I'm curious!

 

If you want to get a measure of the 'drain' it's better to measure inline on a mA current range, not the voltage across the terminals

 

Battery life will be affected also by the manufactured quality of the battery (eg. more expensive Duracell, Panasonic, etc will have better capacity than cheaper, lesser-known brands) - better ones being rated at around 500mAh = approx 50mA for 10 hours or 25mA for 20 hours, 10mA for 50 hours, etc

 

The discharge graph below, for the Duracell 'Ultra Power' PP3, suggests that an on-load terminal voltage of 8.7V would be expected at a drain somewhere in the region of 2-10mA. If your battery reading was off-load then the drain has probably been higher than that

 

For electronic circuits (as opposed to, say, torches) the minimum usable voltage is usually dictated by the circuit not the battery - ie, how low a supply voltage can the circuit receive and still operate correctly (no distortion or noise) - the battery graph below has an inflexion point around 8v, which is very roughly the middle of its power capacity (unrelated to the circuit needs!)

 

 

 

 

[SuperSeagull]

32 minutes ago, sandy_r said:

 

If you want to get a measure of the 'drain' it's better to measure inline on a mA current range, not the voltage across the terminals

 

Battery life will be affected also by the manufactured quality of the battery (eg. more expensive Duracell, Panasonic, etc will have better capacity than cheaper, lesser-known brands) - better ones being rated at around 500mAh = approx 50mA for 10 hours or 25mA for 20 hours, 10mA for 50 hours, etc

 

The discharge graph below, for the Duracell 'Ultra Power' PP3, suggests that an on-load terminal voltage of 8.7V would be expected at a drain somewhere in the region of 2-10mA. If your battery reading was off-load then the drain has probably been higher than that

 

For electronic circuits (as opposed to, say, torches) the minimum usable voltage is usually dictated by the circuit not the battery - ie, how low a supply voltage can the circuit receive and still operate correctly (no distortion or noise) - the battery graph below has an inflexion point around 8v, which is very roughly the middle of its power capacity (unrelated to the circuit needs!)

 

 

 

 

Thanks - I've paid attention to the description of the batteries on the box for the first time. They are Procell Constant Power for low drain devices - perhaps the wrong choice? 

[sandy_r]

2 hours ago, SuperSeagull said:

Thanks - I've paid attention to the description of the batteries on the box for the first time. They are Procell Constant Power for low drain devices - perhaps the wrong choice? 

 

No, not necessarily - but first it would be a good idea to measure the actual current drawn by your bass controls and compare that with an average of a couple of other similar version/age basses.  As @LeftyJ suggested, you need to establish whether the current your bass is drawing is significantly different, and if so, why.  Correct that first (if necessary), and then you will have a guideline as to the expected hours of use you should get from, say, a 550mAh Duracell

 

A reputable battery manufacturer will publish or display the mAh rating of their batteries, so you can make cost/capacity comparisons with Duracell or Panasonic, etc, and see if you think it's worth buying  a slightly cheaper brand

 

Edited March 7 by sandy_r

[Supernaut]

You do unplug when you're not playing, right? 

[SuperSeagull]

58 minutes ago, Supernaut said:

You do unplug when you're not playing, right? 

Yup! 

[itu]

Low drain is the right choice. Your bass should consume something like 1 mA. Not like torches (tens or hundreds of mAs) or similar.

[SuperSeagull]

Thanks all. I've a multimeter but little competence beyond that - how do I measure the current preamp drain 😬. My thought was to do that and then give Dawn at Status a call to check with them.if it sounds right. 

[sandy_r]

17 hours ago, SuperSeagull said:

Thanks all. I've a multimeter but little competence beyond that - how do I measure the current preamp drain 😬. My thought was to do that and then give Dawn at Status a call to check with them.if it sounds right. 

 

I would try & find out a ballpark value for the expected (nominal) current drain first of all  [either from owner(s) of similar version/age bass, or from Status], so you can then select an appropriate current range on your meter, if necessary

 

If your meter has a suitable DC mA range (and with the red meter cable in the socket marked mA, if necessary, otherwise red cable in usual red socket):

• disconnect battery from its connector clip and reconnect with just the negative terminal of the battery connected to the  usual connector on the clip;
• plug instrument jack cable into bass jack socket;
• select DC mA range on meter (or DC A if meter autoranges?);
• hold black meter probe to unoccupied positive connector on battery clip;
• hold red meter probe on battery positive connector;
• read mA drain on battery by bass control circuit (changing range if necessary to get valid display)

HTH

 

Edited March 8 by sandy_r

[SuperSeagull]

3 hours ago, sandy_r said:

 

I would try & find out a ballpark value for the expected (nominal) current drain first of all  [either from owner(s) of similar version/age bass, or from Status], so you can then select an appropriate current range on your meter, if necessary

 

If your meter has a suitable DC mA range (and with the red meter cable in the socket marked mA, if necessary, otherwise red cable in usual red socket):

• disconnect battery from its connector clip and reconnect with just the negative terminal of the battery connected to the  usual connector on the clip;
• plug instrument jack cable into bass jack socket;
• select DC mA range on meter (or DC A if meter autoranges?);
• hold black meter probe to unoccupied positive connector on battery clip;
• hold red meter probe on battery positive connector;
• read mA drain on battery by bass control circuit (changing range if necessary to get valid display)

HTH

 

That’s really clear and helpful, thanks. I need to think about how to deal with step 1 as there are two batteries for the pre amp and they each sit in a flip up compartment rather than using the simpler clip on connector. 
 

[sandy_r]

3 hours ago, SuperSeagull said:

That’s really clear and helpful, thanks. I need to think about how to deal with step 1 as there are two batteries for the pre amp and they each sit in a flip up compartment rather than using the simpler clip on connector. 
 

 

Hah - smart move, Status - which version bass do you have?

[Edit - actually the info on their site implies that all use TRS jack socket switching, so....]

 

You should be able to get the mA reading across the ring & shield of the bass jack socket (without a lead inserted):

• leave the batteries correctly installed in their compartments;
• remove wiring coverplate;
• do not plug instrument jack cable into bass jack socket;
• select DC mA range on meter (or DC A if meter autoranges?)**;
• hold black meter probe onto metal of jack shield (nearest to plug entry end) solder lug ;
• hold red meter probe onto metal of jack ring (middle) solder lug;
• read mA drain on battery by bass control circuit (changing range if necessary to get valid display)

[** If your meter has a suitable DC mA range (and with the red meter cable in the socket marked mA, if necessary, otherwise red cable in usual red socket)]

 

Edited March 8 by sandy_r

[SuperSeagull]

13 hours ago, sandy_r said:

 

Hah - smart move, Status - which version bass do you have?

[Edit - actually the info on their site implies that all use TRS jack socket switching, so....]

 

You should be able to get the mA reading across the ring & shield of the bass jack socket (without a lead inserted):

• leave the batteries correctly installed in their compartments;
• remove wiring coverplate;
• do not plug instrument jack cable into bass jack socket;
• select DC mA range on meter (or DC A if meter autoranges?)**;
• hold black meter probe onto metal of jack shield (nearest to plug entry end) solder lug ;
• hold red meter probe onto metal of jack ring (middle) solder lug;
• read mA drain on battery by bass control circuit (changing range if necessary to get valid display)

[** If your meter has a suitable DC mA range (and with the red meter cable in the socket marked mA, if necessary, otherwise red cable in usual red socket)]

 

After a quick visit to my Dads who has a much better meter than I do, I was getting a reading of 1.3mA but after I pulled and then reinserted the batteries dropped to 0.8mA, then another check had it at 1.5mA. I also checked the voltage on brand new Duracells put in pre gig last night and both have already dropped 0.5v. Your instructions were superb, thank you. I’ll speak with Status next week to get their view on those readings. Intermittent fault maybe?

Edited March 9 by SuperSeagull
Additional info

[Acebassmusic]

Have you looked around in the preamp cavity for stray strands of wire? All it needs is one strand causing a connection where it should'nt and it will drain the battery. Sometimes they can be sods to find as they're very fine and probably hiding behind something else. Good luck on finding a solution. 👍

[SuperSeagull]

Just spoken to the guys at Badlands in Brighton. He said it’s the third Status they have had with similar issues in the last few months, one just last week. One needed a new Jack socket, the other a new preamp board. I’m hoping for the former! Will pop it down next week. 

[sandy_r]

2 hours ago, Acebassmusic said:

Have you looked around in the preamp cavity for stray strands of wire? All it needs is one strand causing a connection where it should'nt and it will drain the battery. Sometimes they can be sods to find as they're very fine and probably hiding behind something else. Good luck on finding a solution. 👍

 

+1 on stray or accidental connections - another possibility to rule out is that a component or solder joint(s)) on the active-pre board could touch the shielding in the controls cavity and cause some intermittent discharge to ground

 

4 hours ago, SuperSeagull said:

then another check had it at 1.5mA

 

Nicely done on the current readings (better meter? ...that's what Dads are for!! 😉)

 

Current drains between 0.8-1.5mA should give you over 450 hours usage from a 550mAh PP3 (like Duracell), so either your bass pre goes into overdrive in a live playing situation, or the pre isn't getting switched off properly when you unplug the lead (eg. faulty jack, as per recent Badlands experience)

 

Hope they can sort it for you (relatively cheaply!)

 

Edited March 9 by sandy_r

[SuperSeagull]

I’ll give the control cavity a good check before I take it in. If those readings are broadly within tolerance then perhaps it is the Jack socket gone rogue. Thanks all for your help and advice - much appreciated.

[sandy_r]

Will you be contacting Status before visiting Badlands?   Would be good for you to know how close/far your bass current drain is from average before you get any possible costs from someone looking at it

 

If there is some kind of fault with the jack power switching, then it must be intermittent - the jack switch was operating ok (ie. it was open) when you measured the current between Ring and Shield lugs, otherwise you wouldn't have been able to get a current reading through the meter (which is acting like the jack plug)

 

Anyway, hope all goes well, let us know how you get on

 

Edited March 9 by sandy_r

[SuperSeagull]

5 hours ago, sandy_r said:

Will you be contacting Status before visiting Badlands?   Would be good for you to know how close/far your bass current drain is from average before you get any possible costs from someone looking at it

 

If there is some kind of fault with the jack power switching, then it must be intermittent - the jack switch was operating ok (ie. it was open) when you measured the current between Ring and Shield lugs, otherwise you wouldn't have been able to get a current reading through the meter (which is acting like the jack plug)

 

Anyway, hope all goes well, let us know how you get on

 

I will although sometimes they are tricky to get hold of. A call on Monday I think. 

[SuperSeagull]

On 09/03/2024 at 18:56, sandy_r said:

 

Anyway, hope all goes well, let us know how you get on

 

Update - there isn't one. Family life has got in the way of sorting anything over the last week and I know Rob was away from the office at Status. Gigged last night, voltage on both batteries was 9.27v pre and 9.02v this morning after a 2.5 hour set. Next week we fly to SE Asia for a few weeks so I'll get back to it when home again. Thanks again for all the advice. 

[sandy_r]

1 hour ago, SuperSeagull said:

Update - there isn't one. Family life has got in the way of sorting anything over the last week and I know Rob was away from the office at Status. Gigged last night, voltage on both batteries was 9.27v pre and 9.02v this morning after a 2.5 hour set. Next week we fly to SE Asia for a few weeks so I'll get back to it when home again. Thanks again for all the advice. 

 

Thanks for the update

 

A couple of points which might be worth pointing out:

• If you're having to monitor battery discharge for comparison purposes (either with itself or with some other battery/ies, it's more representative of the battery status to measure the voltage whilst it's powering the circuit;
• If you look at the graph i posted earlier you can see that the biggest rates of voltage drop occur at the beginning and ending of the battery charge life

You've measure current drain around 1ma+/- which should mean you'd get over 450 hours of use from those batteries - maybe you should fit/check a new set, run them for 10x 2.5 hr gigs and then recheck to see if the (onload) battery voltage has settled down to roughly the middle of the 'plateau' on the 2mA curve shown above?  Just an idea ...but do ask Status when available what they have to say about the average current drain for your bass model

 

Hope all goes well with family commitments and forthcoming trip

 

Cheers

 

 

 

Edited March 16 by sandy_r

[SuperSeagull]

33 minutes ago, sandy_r said:

 

Thanks for the update

 

A couple of points which might be worth pointing out:

• If you're having to monitor battery discharge for comparison purposes (either with itself or with some other battery/ies, it's more representative of the battery status to measure the voltage whilst it's powering the circuit;
• If you look at the graph i posted earlier you can see that the biggest rates of voltage drop occur at the beginning and ending of the battery charge life

You've measure current drain around 1ma+/- which should mean you'd get over 450 hours of use from those batteries - maybe you should fit/check a new set, run them for 10x 2.5 hr gigs and then recheck to see if the (onload) battery voltage has settled down to roughly the middle of the 'plateau' on the 2mA curve shown above?  Just an idea ...but do ask Status when available what they have to say about the average current drain for your bass model

 

Hope all goes well with family commitments and forthcoming trip

 

Cheers

 

 

 

Again, thanks. Every day a school day! 

[sandy_r]

16 minutes ago, SuperSeagull said:

Again, thanks. Every day a school day! 

 

Sorry ....Ziiiiiiiip! 

 

[SuperSeagull]

5 hours ago, sandy_r said:

 

Sorry ....Ziiiiiiiip! 

 

No! Been playing 45 years - still good to learn stuff! And appreciate people taking the time to share their knowledge.