Vintage Fenders

[Rayman]

[quote name='Dr.Dave' post='488567' date='May 15 2009, 09:55 AM']I love it - but I don't really know if it's a good example , just that it feels good to me.[/quote]

That's it Dave, at the end of the day that's all that matters. Who cares if the bass costs a couple hunred quid, or a couple of grand? If it's right for you, then the money's irrelavant.

Having had a go on your 73 in Colne a handful of years back Dave, in my opinion, I think you're got a cracker.

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='Rayman' post='488631' date='May 15 2009, 10:49 AM']That's it Dave, at the end of the day that's all that matters. Who cares if the bass costs a couple hunred quid, or a couple of grand? If it's right for you, then the money's irrelavant.

Having had a go on your 73 in Colne a handful of years back Dave, in my opinion, I think you're got a cracker.[/quote]
+1

[Rayman]

[quote name='dlloyd' post='488609' date='May 15 2009, 10:30 AM']I still have difficulties with the idea of 70s Fenders being vintage instruments...

They're old, right enough, but in the 1980s you couldn't shift them... the perception being that they were awful instruments, not just compared to pre-CBS instruments, but also in comparison with new ones.

When did they suddenly get 'good'?[/quote]

They didn't. It's purely nostalgia and rose tinted specs from the buyers point of view. I've wanted a 70's Fender for years, because it was my era, it was when I first got into music, and my bass is from 1978, the actual year I bought my first album. Pure nostalgia, that's all it is for me. I just think the bass will have a [i]vibe[/i] that resonates through it from all those years of music. All in my head? Probably, but it makes me happy.

[Beedster]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='488446' date='May 15 2009, 07:26 AM']It's more about looks, feel and investment than sound, IMO.[/quote]

It took me four years, several thousand pounds, and a lot of petrol to realise that

I wrote a thread a while back about the placebo effect and bass guitars and I think it's highly relevant to this thread also

Chris

[Paul_C]

[quote name='Beedster' post='488674' date='May 15 2009, 11:19 AM']It took me four years, several thousand pounds, and a lot of petrol to realise that

I wrote a thread a while back about the placebo effect and bass guitars and I think it's highly relevant to this thread also

Chris[/quote]

this is what I was wondering, whether there was a striking difference between old and new, or if a US Std. P bought now would give you more or less the same sound as a '65 P (which is what I imagine would be the case)

[Doctor J]

Why restrict yourself to Fender? A US Standard P is mass produced to meet a specific price point. There are builders out there who are trying to build the best P possible, they're the ones who'll more likely give you your dream bass.

[rjb]

[quote name='Doctor J' post='488769' date='May 15 2009, 12:25 PM']A US Standard P is mass produced to meet a specific price point. There are builders out there who are trying to build the best P possible, they're the ones who'll more likely give you your dream bass.[/quote]

This applies to vintage Fenders too - 2k+ on an old Fender that was bolted together on a Friday afternoon from a parts bin, or 2k+ on a handmade Celinder or Sadowsky.

I can tell you which I would choose.

[Paul_C]

[quote name='Doctor J' post='488769' date='May 15 2009, 12:25 PM']Why restrict yourself to Fender? A US Standard P is mass produced to meet a specific price point. There are builders out there who are trying to build the best P possible, they're the ones who'll more likely give you your dream bass.[/quote]

I'm not looking to buy one, I'm just curious as to whether there is a noticeable difference - it was just one of those idle moments where you feel like throwing a question out to those who might know the answer.

With a P bass especially there are so few variables that I was assuming that there wouldn't be that much difference, but wanted to see what other people thought.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Paul_C' post='488798' date='May 15 2009, 12:49 PM']With a P bass especially there are so few variables that I was assuming that there wouldn't be that much difference, but wanted to see what other people thought.[/quote]
I daresay the new ones have a few mod cons that are nice to have... posh tuners... do the standards still have a graphite-reinforced neck?

[The Bass Doc]

[quote name='rjb' post='488783' date='May 15 2009, 12:37 PM']2k+ on an old Fender that was bolted together on a Friday afternoon from a parts bin, or 2k+ on a handmade Celinder or Sadowsky.

I can tell you which I would choose.[/quote]

I reckon you would choose the Celinder or Sadowsky - as long as you appreciate that the day after the Fender at £2k+
has been bought it's worth is £2k+ (and rising) and the other two have probably lost a grand. I'm certainly not advocating everyone should avoid well-built custom type basses but just be sure you want to keep them if you don't want to suffer the depreciation factor. I have a foot in both camps as I have built some exotic 6 string basses for guys and at the risk of even losing their business I've pointed out that they need to be prepared for a shock if they want to sell one day since they will be lucky to receive an offer of half the build price. The other foot/camp is my personal preference for vintage Fenders - mainly stemming from having grown up musically in the sixties - they sort of fit what I still play.
I really enjoy creating modern spec instruments for players who have specific requirements - there should always be scope for improving on earlier designs but try asking you favourite maker of the 'exotic' what they think of Leo's early products and I will be very suprised if any slate them.

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

I played lots of old mustangs before going for the cheaper option & getting my CIJ one. Once I put TI JF324s on & had the frets levelled at the gallery it felt, played and sounded much nicer than any of the beaten up old tatty 70s ones I tried and wanted to like, but didn't. I was intending it to be a backup to my '72 musicmaster, but the mustang has become my main bass now.

[stevie]

[quote name='Beedster' post='488674' date='May 15 2009, 11:19 AM']I wrote a thread a while back about the placebo effect and bass guitars and I think it's highly relevant to this thread also[/quote]
I haven't read your comments, but I'm sure they apply to most of the discussions about gear on here.

I owned a 1961 Strat. It was OK. Nothing special. A bit too 'edgy' if anything.

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='488446' date='May 15 2009, 07:26 AM']It's more about looks, feel and investment than sound, IMO.[/quote]

+1

Mind you, all this stuff about modern consistency, best time is now, etc...how come there are plenty of threads here listing MIM and USA issues and decrying Fender's QC?

Maybe the golden age lasted for about 3 weeks in the mid-90's...

[Urban Bassman]

[quote name='johnnylager' post='488573' date='May 15 2009, 09:57 AM']I can't remember who's really old P I was fortunate enough to have a quick noodle on at the SEBB last year [and my sincere apologies for that] but it was great and I'd have that over the VMP I briefly had any day, ditto the CIJ 50th anniversary P me mate has.

The others were good, but there was something about the old one that was just, I don't know, much much better. I felt bloody scared holding it though.

I'll have a pair of 1970 Fenders one day, it's me birth year see. Tomorrow mebbe, when the lotto comes in.

EDIT: It was Sixshooters, so that makes it a '59. Carry on.[/quote]


I've been fortunate enough to have owned two '61 P basses. One was way better than the other in terms of playability and sound, I sold the worse of two and now have my white '61 which is great, both sound and playability. And it's the year of my birth. I've also had a mid 80's US MIA Jazz Bass that was, frankly, pants. Poorly built, didn't play very well at all. Got rid of that as soon as could.

I've always preferred a good quality pre-owned instrument. Not because of the "mojo" factor - real or not. But put simply I think you get more bass for your money!

[Delberthot]

I like shiny and new.

I don't particlularly want a 30+ year old battered bass with grubby tuners from years of sweat and fags that I feel I have to wash my hands after I play it.

I would love a mid 50s Precision but I would immediately have to take the hardare off and clean it which would remove the mojo and snake oil etc.


Do I really not want an old Fender or am I trying to talk myself out of getting one? You decide.

Edited May 15, 2009 by Delberthot

[dangee]

I've owned a 62P and a 65 Jazz. The only two areas for me where they stand out (other than rarity, investment and being 'cool') are the nice brazilian boards and being very lightweight. Though I regret selling them both, I'd never buy another. If you want a quality Fender-a-like there are so many clones that are brilliant and far less risky.

[Rayman]

I'd love a '65 jazz, for a couple of reasons. I got a good look at Jolanda Charles' '65 at bass day a couple of years back and fell in love with it. It's also the year of my birth.

Pure nostalgia reasons I guess, but that would probably be my ultimate goal, to have one. Don't s'pose it'll happen any time soon though.

I think that generally the RI & CS basses made today are of the highest quality and playability, and I've certainly got my eye on a couple, but you can't inject them with the history and mojo of a genuinely old bass. Older basses have a "quality" that only years of love and abuse can create, even my mid 80's BB3000S had something about it, can't put my finger on what, but god I wish I still had it.

Why do people have a Ford Mondeo on the drive, and an Escort Mexico in the garage for weekends? Why do people read the Telegraph but have some 1960's Marvel comics on the bookshelves? Nostalgia. A love for things that remind them of their youth. To me [i]personally[/i] basses are no different.

[rslaing]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='488581' date='May 15 2009, 10:01 AM']I've played new Ps and Js that were as nice as mine to play.

There's more to it that that, though.[/quote]

Aye........the new ones are much cheaper. The notes that come out of it are the same though.

So why buy an old one?

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='rslaing' post='489578' date='May 16 2009, 09:54 AM']Aye........the new ones are much cheaper. The notes that come out of it are the same though.

So why buy an old one?[/quote]
Well, for four reasons.

1 ) I bought mine for very reasonable prices.. all worked out at £750 each, or less.

2 ) No new bass looks quite like any of mine (TV logo, 'proper' torty guard, warm amber glow on the headstock)

3 ) Blatant, shallow, retro-ism and the associated romance

4 ) When I'm old and grey and I can't play anymore, or when my daughter decides she wants to go to university, I can sell one of them for a ridiculous shedload of money. That ain't going to happen as much with a perfectly lovely MIA Standard, for example.

That's why I bought an old one, and probably would again if the opportunity arose.