A Few Questions to all Short-Scale Bassists.

[thebrig]

I have a couple of questions I would like to ask you guys and gals who play, or have played, short-scale basses.

I play mainly P basses but I've tried a couple of short-scales in the past and given up after a few weeks because they just don't feel right, they also sound very different, and I also struggle with the neck-dive.

So my questions are:

 

1. How long does it take to adjust to going from long-scale to short-scale?

2. How do you manage the inevitable neck-dive that you usually get with most short-scale basses, would changing the tuners to lightweight tuners make any noticeable difference?

[Lozz196]

I switched last year to short scales from Precisions, I went for the Fender JMJ Mustang as it has a neck with similar width & feel to a Precision (and a fairly similar sound in the mix too).

 

It hardly took anytime at all to feel very familiar playing it, in fact it was pretty instant, as a Precision player for years I was concerned I wouldn’t gel with it but my concerns soon faded.

 

The neck dive I don’t notice too much, though I do use a Mono Betty strap which provides good support & stability (I went short scale due to back issues so made sense to have a good strap as well). Changing the tuners to Hipshot Ultralites would reduce the weight by a fair bit - principle of levers & all that, knocking off 200+ grams at the end would be very noticeable. This is something I’m thinking of to make my JMJs (I have 3) even more practical.

[LeftyJ]

My two cents, based on the 4 shortscales I've owned and 1 that I've borrowed for a few weeks recently. Mind you, I don't play shortscales exclusively. I use a longscale in my band and only play my shorties at home for fun.

 

1: My muscle memory took some time time to adjust. The distance between the frets is not that much shorter, but big jumps still require looking at my fingers to make sure I land at the right one. I'm totally fine with that. There was one exception: I had a shortscale semi-hollowbody for a while that had a separate bridge and tailpiece that were very far apart (so much so that it took regular longscale strings), and the nut was pretty far away due to the large body. That one required my full attention to play!

 

2: Depends on the bass. The semi-hollowbody had a large maple center block and was very heavy, so it balanced well. My Sandberg Lionel balances very well too, due to the heavy ash body and the upper horn that reaches to the 11th fret. The Lionels with solid and aged finishes have much lighter alder bodies, but still balance well because of the strap button positions (but those are a few hundred pounds more expensive than the sandblasted ash finishes). My Harley Benton PB Shorty had a 3/4 sized body and did not balance well, and my Atelier Z Baby Z-4J is Mustang-shaped and has a slight neckdive but not too bad. The body is of very light ash and the neck is narrow but chunky so has some weight to it.

Edited March 15 by LeftyJ

[Aidan63]

I can't comment on adjustment as I only feel comfortable on shortscale, I have small hands and short arms and a big belly so whilst a full size P is more comfortable than a J it's still too far a reach and too awkward, and resting bass on right thigh is uncomfortable as it forces a twist in the back, with shortscale I can play on a strap sitting or standing comfortably. A good strap is all it takes if there's any neck dive, but my CV Mustang and Sandberg Lionel don't dive and the FSR Mustang while it does slightly dive compared to the CV (different body woods, different factory, the FSR is 1 1/2lb lighter than the CV, poplar body instead of Nato) with the right strap it is no problem. I might stick some hipshots on it.

Mustangs are in the P territory sonically but have their own vibe, I have Nordstrands in one of them, stock Squier in the other. The Lionel has a P pickup it's like a maple board Fender in tone with a pauferro board on it. All of mine have pauferro boards, I would like a rosewood board neck, I'd like a JMJ but hate the fake relic finish, but the instruments sound great (unique pickups not for sale) and the neck feels good and the headstock with the hipshot tuners mean fitting a d-tuner on the E string is easily done, and lolipops are cool.

Strings make a big difference, I've LaBella tapes on the Lionel and there's so much variety in tone available, LaBella Mustang flats on the CV and Fender rounds on the FSR, will be changing these to some sort of flat soon as I don't need or want the brightness of rounds, but might try Chromes as they seem to be very highly rated and I have never tried them.

Flats being higher tension feel perhaps more like full scale strings, but if you are a vibrato/bender style player the lower tension of rounds on a short scale might be your thing.

[Frank Blank]

27 minutes ago, thebrig said:

1. How long does it take to adjust to going from long-scale to short-scale?

 

It depends on the bass and on you, you have to try a few out before you'll find one that kind of 'suits' you. Once I found my 'brand' so to speak I adjusted very quickly, well, instantly really.

 

27 minutes ago, thebrig said:

2. How do you manage the inevitable neck-dive that you usually get with most short-scale basses, would changing the tuners to lightweight tuners make any noticeable difference?

Neck dive isn't inevitable, only one of the eight or so short scales I've played had neck dive, mind you, they have all had lightweight tuners. If you are moving from a P bass then I completely agree with @Lozz196, Mustangs are the way to go. I also had a JMJ and it was glorious, I never noticed any neck dive but, again like Lozz, I have straps that provide good support.

[three]

I'm sure that there will be many different perspectives here.  For context, I learned to play on a borrowed late '60s Mustang many decades ago, then played long-scales exclusively for three decades, moved to a combination of short and long-scales about 15 years ago, and have gradually drifted to short-scale almost exclusively.  Age, reach and back pain have influenced the decision.  Whilst short-scale basses can be heavy (I have two very heavy shorties), overall I they tend to be a lighter.  On the questions:

 

1. In my case, a very long time indeed.  However, I played both for an extended period (and still use a couple of headless 34" scale basses).  I didn't really notice the transition or any problems.  With fairly regular use, I wouldn't have thought that the shift would take longer than a couple of weeks (though it depends on the individual, of course, and possibly the bass?)

 

2. There is a vast range of shorties available - more seem to pop-up every month.  Some of the more vintage shapes do seem to feature a bit of compression in the body - the shorter top horn can affect balance.  However, many designs balance beautifully in my experience.  I have a Wilcock and that is possibly to most beautifully balanced bass I've played - it's genuinely remarkable.  The same is true with Spector shorties (the balance is much better than long-scale Spectors for me).  So, it's worth shopping around and consideration of where the strap pin sits with respect to the 12th fret - a massive generalisation but a useful rule of thumb.  It's also worth thinking about the placement of the bridge (back-end of the body?)

 

3. You also mention tone/sound - there's a perception that short-scales tend to be a bit thumpy/dull.  I think this it true of some models, but others are very different and some can be extremely bright and pokey.  I have a Spector that is capable of sounding very bright and alive.  Alembics are weird full stop, and the shorties, whilst they are capable of the characteristic piano tone, sound more like an upright than a grand piano to me.  That said, an enormous range of tones is possible with the filter electronics.  The small-bodied shorties are a nightmare on a strap - again, bridge and strap pin placement.

 

So in sum, probably worth taking a really good look around and trying a wide range of shorties - the variety in balance, tone, weight etc. is enormous, and I'm sure that there's something in the mix to which you could adapt fairly readily 

[Frank Blank]

The short scale I felt comfortable with instantly was the Nordstrand Acinonyx. Out of all the basses of any scale I've ever played it was, by a country mile, the easiest to play and most comfortable bass I've ever owned. If you get the opportunity to try one then do, incredible instruments.

[three]

Just now, Frank Blank said:

The short scale I felt comfortable with instantly was the Nordstrand Acinonyx. Out of all the basses of any scale I've ever played it was, by a country mile, the easiest to play and most comfortable bass I've ever owned. If you get the opportunity to try one then do, incredible instruments.

I've not yet had the pleasure but need to seek out an Acinonyx - I read nothing but very good things!

[Paul S]

I guess I am fortunate that switching between different scale lengths has never been a problem for me, so no help there. 

 

I have a few shorties now and would say, straight out of the box, the Harley Benton PB Shorty sounded 'exactly' like a P bass with the stock pickup giving a nice old school vintage tone.  I've since swapped the pup for a Tonerider, which has a bit more edge and fatness.  Slight neck dive but easily cured with a suede-backed strap.  I would heartily recommend getting one of these are a toe-dipping exercise into the realm of shorties, if P basses are your thing.  As I always say of them, they are good basses at any price point.  At £85 new they are a miracle.

[Frank Blank]

14 minutes ago, Aidan63 said:

Strings make a big difference, I've LaBella tapes on the Lionel and there's so much variety in tone available...

Absolutely this, my JMJ had LaBella 760F-MUS stainless steel flats, perfect strings for this bass.

[Frank Blank]

5 minutes ago, three said:

I've not yet had the pleasure but need to seek out an Acinonyx - I read nothing but very good things!

 

 

[BigRedX]

Over the past 45 years I have played basses with all sorts of scale lengths from 27" to 36" and have no problem switching. However I also play guitar, mandolin and balalaika so I'm used to stringed instruments with massively different scale lengths. My first bass was a short scale and my second was a 36" scale. At the moment I play a 34" scale 5-string bass in one band and a 30" Bass VI in another. I think it helps that I play different songs and slightly different styles of music on each type of bass so there is no confusion. If you are struggling with muscle memory, my advice would be, that if you really want to play short scale bass, put your other basses away and only play the short scale or at least don't play the songs that you are using the short scale bass for on basses with different scale lengths.

 

Also I can't say I have noticed any problems with neck dive playing short scales basses apart from a Kramer with a V-shaped body. What basses have you tried that exhibited those problems?

[thebrig]

48 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

Over the past 45 years I have played basses with all sorts of scale lengths from 27" to 36" and have no problem switching. However I also play guitar, mandolin and balalaika so I'm used to stringed instruments with massively different scale lengths. My first bass was a short scale and my second was a 36" scale. At the moment I play a 34" scale 5-string bass in one band and a 30" Bass VI in another. I think it helps that I play different songs and slightly different styles of music on each type of bass so there is no confusion. If you are struggling with muscle memory, my advice would be, that if you really want to play short scale bass, put your other basses away and only play the short scale or at least don't play the songs that you are using the short scale bass for on basses with different scale lengths.

 

Also I can't say I have noticed any problems with neck dive playing short scales basses apart from a Kramer with a V-shaped body. What basses have you tried that exhibited those problems?

I've owned a couple of Fender Mustangs which are pretty close to a Fender P bass sound wise, but the ones I had USA and CIJ both suffered considerable neck-dive which I put down to the standard heavy tuners that you get on most Fender basses.

 

I've now got a Gibson SG short-scale and again, neck-dive is a bit of a problem, and I find the tone very "muddy" compared to my P basses.

 

The other thing I find strange is when I'm playing up the "dusty" end, moving my left arm inwards towards my body just feels so awkward.

 

I'm the wrong side of seventy, I have back and neck problems, plus I have arthritis in my hands, so I do think that changing to short-scale might help.

 

 

Edited March 15 by thebrig

[No lust in Jazz]

2 hours ago, thebrig said:

1. How long does it take to adjust to going from long-scale to short-scale?

2. How do you manage the inevitable neck-dive that you usually get with most short-scale basses, would changing the tuners to lightweight tuners make any noticeable difference?

Ans: 1 - For me it doesn't, this surprises me a little, but I can move from one scale length e.g 35" or 34" scale bass to a 30" SS without issue. There are differences with string tension and spacing that I occasionally get caught out on, but depending on what I'm playing, within ten minutes, it is a non-issue.

 

Ans: 2 - I don't experience neck dive on any of my short scale basses.

 

Qu: Which SS bass that you've played presents neck dive issues?

 

Ah, just read through a few contributions to this and yes, Fender Mustang variants have some neck dive, I hated the one that I played and I don't own one. 

[Paolo85]

I have had a SS Squier Jaguar for a few weeks. I see what you mean.

Neck dive depends on design and relative weigh of neck and body. And I must say on the personal opinion of what level neck dive is annoying. So there is no simple answer to the question but in general, yes, lightweigh tuners help.

My bass was a massive neck diver. I have put hipshot licensed ultralight on, car wheel balance weighs at the back, and I have used Dunlop straplocks to "extend" the top horn. The bass is still neck heavy - which I don't like. But it is not a neck diver.

As for the general feeling of awkwardness, I have realised that, if I try to keep the headstock pretty much at the same height as it would be on a long-scale, the body remains much higher, so my plucking hand is all crimped. Also, the headstock is closer, so even my fretting hand is a bit crimped. Because of that, I am experimenting with just keeping the strap longer and it helps.

It turns out that, while my SS bass is undoubtedly easier on the fretting hand, overall I am not so sure it is more comfortable than my long-scale perfectly balanced P bitsa.

But I don't have arthritis. With that, the SS would win. I'd just shop for one with better balance (or better hopes of balancing with a few adjustments)

 

 

[police squad]

I dont notice any neck dive on either my Hofner or JMJ mustang.

I still play the long scale basses (namely in my Police tribute) but prefer the shorties now. Taking the Hofner out on Sunday

[NJE]

Sorry if this is derails the topic and is better asked separately, but are any of you short scale fans of the bulkier/tall persuasion?

 

I am around 6ft and on the hefty side and really worried that I would look ridiculous with a short scale.  

Edited March 15 by NJE

[LeftyJ]

5 minutes ago, NJE said:

Sorry if this is derails the topic and is better asked separately, but are any of you short scale fans of the bulkier/tall persuasion?

 

I am around 6ft and on the hefty side and really worried that I would look ridiculous with a short scale.  

 

I'm 6.43 feet long (according to Google - I typed in 1,96 m) and "hefty" sums me up pretty accurately. My main bass is a longscale headless, which is actually shorter than my shorties (with 4-in-line headstocks). I have no pics of me wielding either of those, but I don't think it's too bad. I know guitarists my size that get away with 25.5" scale instruments just fine too, and those are tiny by comparison! 

Edited March 15 by LeftyJ

[police squad]

16 minutes ago, NJE said:

Sorry if this is derails the topic and is better asked separately, but are any of you short scale fans of the bulkier/tall persuasion?

 

I am around 6ft and on the hefty side and really worried that I would look ridiculous with a short scale.  

I'm just under 6 foot and I think it looks cool

[BigRedX]

Looking at the short-scale basses that people are saying exhibit neck dive and my personal experiences, it appears to be mostly down to the design. 

 

One of the main problems I am am seeing here is the insistence of having large bass guitar machine heads arranged 4 in line. This means the overall neck is too long and there's too much weight at the end of it. Most of my short scales basses have either had guitar size machine heads, or had them arranged in a 2+2 configuration (or 3+3 for the Bass VIs), or even better are headless. The other issue is the placement of the strap button in relation to the neck position.

 

Also many short scale basses don't sound like the OP's P-Bass. In order to get anywhere close in sound the short scale bass is going to have to have a P-Bass pickup somewhere close (in relative terms) to where it would be on the string length of a 34" scale bass. Basses with different types of pickups in different locations along the string length are simply not going to sound the same.

[Lozz196]

I’m 6ft and don’t think they look that out of place 

[Schnozzalee]

I'm also 6ft and I find the string tension and feel of a 34" scale, miles better than anything short scale. I've owned short scales for a while before and I just find them 'cramped'.

[shoulderpet]

10 hours ago, thebrig said:

I have a couple of questions I would like to ask you guys and gals who play, or have played, short-scale basses.

I play mainly P basses but I've tried a couple of short-scales in the past and given up after a few weeks because they just don't feel right, they also sound very different, and I also struggle with the neck-dive.

So my questions are:

 

1. How long does it take to adjust to going from long-scale to short-scale?

2. How do you manage the inevitable neck-dive that you usually get with most short-scale basses, would changing the tuners to lightweight tuners make any noticeable difference?

Actually you are much more likely to have neck dive on a long scale bass as the neck is longer

[thebrig]

12 minutes ago, shoulderpet said:

Actually you are much more likely to have neck dive on a long scale bass as the neck is longer

You would think so, but I haven't found that to be the case. 🤔

[crazycloud]

23 hours ago, thebrig said:

2. How do you manage the inevitable neck-dive that you usually get with most short-scale basses

Don't get a ginormous FSO headstock with huge Fender style tuners. Neither of my Cort or Samick SS's (both P+J) with tiny 2+2 headstocks and modern style sealed tuners have even a hint of dive.

 

I regularly flip between FS 5/6 string basses, SS 6 string basses and guitars without issue. Spend time woodshedding with the SS until it's completely comfortable.

Edited March 16 by crazycloud