asingardenof Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 13 minutes ago, Baloney Balderdash said: It seems that a lot of people seems to be of the assumption that technical playing is the opposite negation of serving the song or soulful playing, which is just nonsense. Of course it can be, but so can just turning out root notes, or any other type/style of playing for that matter, but it all depends on the context. From what many people are writing here it sounds like some of you are automatically dismissing everything as soon as it gets a bit too technical as bad, without actually listening. Context, context people. Also, do some people have an aversion against solo pieces, or is it just bass solo pieces, if then why is this, and if not, how can a solo piece serve the song, it is the song? Also I love the sound of bass as an instrument, one of the main reasons why i chose it as my main instrument. Why chose it as your main instrument of choice, if you don't like the sound of it? Speaking personally I can appreciate the technicality where someone's playing a blizzards of notes, but quite often it just seems really out of place or just showing off for the sake of it. Pretty much every time I feel like that is when players are playing fast slap and all you can hear is the clackityclackityclackity of the string on the frets but there's no time for any kind of timbre of note to be heard because the next fret clank is only a tiny fraction of a second behind it. The problem isn't that I don't like the sound of it - I love the sound of it but would actually like to hear it! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moose Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 I think the question we have to ask is: is the player a technician or a musician? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltyG565 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 (edited) 54 minutes ago, Jackroadkill said: That's a superb analogy. I find that technical playing (of any sort, not just bass) usually turns me off, as I prefer the music to serve the song rather than just show the skill of the players. I'd rather hear one note that really makes you sit up and pay attention to a hundred that are all icing and no cake. I think therein lies the unwritten rule for every musician. Your contribution needs to serve the song, not yourself. Edit to say that this doesn’t necessarily mean that there is no place for highly intricate and technical pieces within songs/music, just that I feel it would be wrong to insert that style into a funeral march, for example. Edited March 18 by MiltyG565 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Smalls Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 1 hour ago, Burns-bass said: I don’t buy this. I love jazz and play it live and at home and I can’t stand the virtuoso stuff 1 hour ago, Baloney Balderdash said: What kind of jazz though? Indeed! There's jazz and there's jazz... 😁 I know that in certain jazz circles (i.e. the more acoustic end) electric bass (or anything electric!) is either kind of frowned on or not acknowledged as being suitable for use in "proper" jazz. Use of one demotes the music to "fusion" and not worthy of attention by "serious" jazzers. I had recent experience of this when I asked a local jazz promoter if he would be putting on any more electric jazz or fusion gigs. His reply, dripping with condescension, was "You’re clearly an authority, perhaps one might suggest attending one of our sessions, we’d certainly appreciate your opinion...then perhaps you’d have a better understanding of our Jazz performances!". With a reply like that I wouldn't feel like I was welcome at any of their sessions - all of them (for the last 3 years at least) have been quite straight head "traditional" (not trad!) with brass, piano, double bass and drums with Julian Siegel perhaps being the most "out there". No electric anything... And none were really in any way swinging, none were really about groove, which is what I want in any music, from punk to Vivaldi! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burns-bass Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 2 hours ago, Baloney Balderdash said: What kind of jazz though? I'm in an ECM quartet (Gary Burton, Pat Metheny, etc), I also play in a funk band that (sort of) has some jazz funk bits in it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burns-bass Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 40 minutes ago, Leonard Smalls said: Indeed! There's jazz and there's jazz... 😁 I know that in certain jazz circles (i.e. the more acoustic end) electric bass (or anything electric!) is either kind of frowned on or not acknowledged as being suitable for use in "proper" jazz. Use of one demotes the music to "fusion" and not worthy of attention by "serious" jazzers. I had recent experience of this when I asked a local jazz promoter if he would be putting on any more electric jazz or fusion gigs. His reply, dripping with condescension, was "You’re clearly an authority, perhaps one might suggest attending one of our sessions, we’d certainly appreciate your opinion...then perhaps you’d have a better understanding of our Jazz performances!". With a reply like that I wouldn't feel like I was welcome at any of their sessions - all of them (for the last 3 years at least) have been quite straight head "traditional" (not trad!) with brass, piano, double bass and drums with Julian Siegel perhaps being the most "out there". No electric anything... And none were really in any way swinging, none were really about groove, which is what I want in any music, from punk to Vivaldi! Nah, I grew up listening to fusion stuff and am not a snob at all. It's all personal preference, it's just I've never really enjoyed a bass solo (I can admire them though!). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonesy Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 1 hour ago, Baloney Balderdash said: It seems that a lot of people seems to be of the assumption that technical playing is the opposite negation of serving the song or soulful playing, which is just nonsense. Of course it can be, but so can just turning out root notes, or any other type/style of playing for that matter, but it all depends on the context. From what many people are writing here it sounds like some of you are automatically dismissing everything as soon as it gets a bit too technical as bad, without actually listening. Context, context people. Also, do some people have an aversion against solo pieces, or is it just bass solo pieces, if then why is this, and if not, how can a solo piece serve the song, it is the song? Also I love the sound of bass as an instrument, one of the main reasons why i chose it as my main instrument. Why chose it as your main instrument of choice, if you don't like the sound of it? I enjoy solo's and technical playing, I just tend not to enjoy them if that's all there is to a song. A lot of solo songs I just find boring, lacking melody and a bit pretentious - albeit I can listen in awe and appreciate the skill and talent that goes into composing and playing the piece. On the flip side, I completely agree about root notes too, there's a place for it every now and again, but it can be dull to listen to. Adam Clayton is a prime example of this for me. I've heard people say that his bass lines drive U2 songs, but they're just boring to me. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cairobill Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 (edited) I'm only commenting on the thread because I saw the title and the words 'Stu Hamm' flashed in my mind in bright neon and then I saw the content mentioning the man himself. Spooky! Edited March 18 by Cairobill 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newfoundfreedom Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 Me. I'm crap. 1 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Smalls Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 Talking of Stu Hamm you can see how he stacks up against some other bass players in this ultimate widdle-fest! For me he's nowhere near the best in this group - top 3 for me (apart from Stan) are Bunny Brunel, Billy Sheehan and Jimmy Johnson - none of whom do slappyclappy stuff... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No lust in Jazz Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 Mark King. This is down to the music, I didn't like the 80's pop music / slap funk thing at the time and I still don't. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
la bam Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 53 minutes ago, Leonard Smalls said: Talking of Stu Hamm you can see how he stacks up against some other bass players in this ultimate widdle-fest! For me he's nowhere near the best in this group - top 3 for me (apart from Stan) are Bunny Brunel, Billy Sheehan and Jimmy Johnson - none of whom do slappyclappy stuff... I always try to be positive, but my word, THAT video is everything I don't get about bass playing / players. Each to their own though. It's all good if you like it. Just not for me. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obrienp Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 1 hour ago, Leonard Smalls said: Talking of Stu Hamm you can see how he stacks up against some other bass players in this ultimate widdle-fest! For me he's nowhere near the best in this group - top 3 for me (apart from Stan) are Bunny Brunel, Billy Sheehan and Jimmy Johnson - none of whom do slappyclappy stuff... Sorry, I couldn't stick it out to the end (I haven't got that much of my life left to waste) but based on the first half, they also seemed to have essentially the same idea. Now that might have been caused by the underlying theme they were jamming to but I was hoping one of them would come up with something different melodically, rather than just different versions of the same parlour tricks (harmonics, rapid percussive slapping and bending the neck mostly). BTW I'm not against this kind of music per se but it only took the keyboard player's intervention to show how little the bassist were actually developing the theme. At least with one of Eric Clapton's Crossroads line-ups the guitarists do display genuinely different approaches to soloing (well mostly, some fall flat on their faces). However, to be fair to these guys, in a genuine band performance, they would probably do one of these solos once in a whole tune and in that scenario it might sound genuinely fresh. A string of bass solos is bound to make the audience lose the will... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassbloke Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 (edited) Robert Trujillo. When I say I don't get him, what I mean is that I struggle with the fact that someone whose career includes excellent work in Suicidal Tendencies, Infectious Grooves and Black Label Society and stints with Jerry Cantrell and Ozzy Osbourne seems to have regressed so much as a player. I'd say it's even more apparent than Lars Ulrich. Whenever you see footage of him, he's playing some crappy wah, fuzz drenched 'solo' or smacking seven bells of sh*t out of a custom shop Warwick. That said, I doubt he'd want to swap places with me. Edited March 18 by bassbloke typos 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_5 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 (edited) 5 minutes ago, bassbloke said: Robert Trujillo. When I say I don't get him, what I mean is that I struggle with the fact that someone whose career includes excellent Suicidal Tendencies, Infectious Grooves, Black Label Society, Jerry Cantrell and Ozzy Osbourne seems to have regressed so much as a player. I'd say it's even more apparent than Lars Ulrich. Whenever you see footage of him, he's playing some crappy wah, fuzz drenched 'solo' or smacking seven bells of sh*t out of a custom shop Warwick. That said, I doubt he'd want to swap places with me. James Hetfield offering him a million dollars to join Metallica might have something to do with it… Edited March 18 by paul_5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo85 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 Pino Palladino. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverBlackman Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 47 minutes ago, Paolo85 said: Pino Palladino. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass_dinger Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 9 hours ago, Rodders said: The one I don't get the most is Mohini Dey, great you can play lots and lots of notes very very fast, very technical and all that. But to me there is no feel and not much musicality.. Agreed. She is hugely talented, technically brilliant - and my sister keeps sending me links to her stuff. But I just don't get what she does. And if she was the keynote speaker at next year's South East Bass Bash, I would be very embarrassed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barking Spiders Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 4 hours ago, Obrienp said: Sorry, I couldn't stick it out to the end (I haven't got that much of my life left to waste) but based on the first half, they also seemed to have essentially the same idea. Now that might have been caused by the underlying theme they were jamming to but I was hoping one of them would come up with something different melodically, rather than just different versions of the same parlour tricks (harmonics, rapid percussive slapping and bending the neck mostly). BTW I'm not against this kind of music per se but it only took the keyboard player's intervention to show how little the bassist were actually developing the theme. At least with one of Eric Clapton's Crossroads line-ups the guitarists do display genuinely different approaches to soloing (well mostly, some fall flat on their faces). However, to be fair to these guys, in a genuine band performance, they would probably do one of these solos once in a whole tune and in that scenario it might sound genuinely fresh. A string of bass solos is bound to make the audience lose the will... There are 3 or 4 players there who are among my faves but I agree with you. This sort of thing works better with just three players. I've seen footage of Clarke, Miller and Wooten together and they pull it off. In this vid it's all a bit incoherent and repetitive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassbloke Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 7 hours ago, Leonard Smalls said: Talking of Stu Hamm you can see how he stacks up against some other bass players in this ultimate widdle-fest! For me he's nowhere near the best in this group - top 3 for me (apart from Stan) are Bunny Brunel, Billy Sheehan and Jimmy Johnson - none of whom do slappyclappy stuff... Some of that is hard work. To save basschat viewers of a nervous disposition, the only solos of note were Flea, first half of Bunny Brunel and Jimmy Johnson. The rest are pointless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo85 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 10 hours ago, Baloney Balderdash said: Also, do some people have an aversion against solo pieces, or is it just bass solo pieces, if then why is this, and if not, how can a solo piece serve the song, it is the song? Yes good point here. Granted, I do think that musicians famous for their chops (including famous bass players) often overindulge in solos that are boring. Unfortunately that's good business for them and I imagine irresistible for their egos. But at the opposite end of the spectrum, famous sessionmen that are celebrated for "serving the song" often overindulge in dull bass lines for cheesy dull songs, which are very good business for all parties involved. This whole idea of serving the song, while correct in principle, pushed to the extreme, to me, is the death of music. The problem is, what is the song? If the song is a simple pop song, I appreciate that serving it means doing certain simple things. If the song is of a different nature - god forbid maybe an instrumental song - serving it may mean, at the right time, enriching it with some more complex bass lines. And it may even mean, at the right time, that the bass should take the lead. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baloney Balderdash Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 (edited) 6 hours ago, Obrienp said: Sorry, I couldn't stick it out to the end (I haven't got that much of my life left to waste) but based on the first half, they also seemed to have essentially the same idea. Now that might have been caused by the underlying theme they were jamming to but I was hoping one of them would come up with something different melodically, rather than just different versions of the same parlour tricks (harmonics, rapid percussive slapping and bending the neck mostly). BTW I'm not against this kind of music per se but it only took the keyboard player's intervention to show how little the bassist were actually developing the theme. At least with one of Eric Clapton's Crossroads line-ups the guitarists do display genuinely different approaches to soloing (well mostly, some fall flat on their faces). However, to be fair to these guys, in a genuine band performance, they would probably do one of these solos once in a whole tune and in that scenario it might sound genuinely fresh. A string of bass solos is bound to make the audience lose the will... Well all playing, regardless of the supposed objective value or quality of what is played or the context it was played in, can essentially be reduced to a series of various techniques if that is what you want to make of it. Edited March 18 by Baloney Balderdash 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pow_22 Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 Peter Hook. Im into that 'sort' of music but for me he is an awful player who i just dont get 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 For me it's musicians who appear to be well regarded as musicians simply because their band is popular. However, I'm not really that interested in technical prowess at any level unless a lack of it gets in the way of being able to play the music properly. I think the important bits are songwriting, arranging and production. Everything else is just icing. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 19 hours ago, bassbloke said: When I say I don't get him, what I mean is that I struggle with the fact that someone whose career includes excellent work in Suicidal Tendencies, Infectious Grooves and Black Label Society and stints with Jerry Cantrell and Ozzy Osbourne seems to have regressed so much as a player. Others are talking about serving the song. He has to fit with the band when he is on stage. That's his job. I'm sure he plays other music when not playing Metallica. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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