Saddles on deck

[Geek99]

3 hours ago, TimR said:

 

Did everyone just ignore this?

 

Yes, you need to shim the whole pocket in this case. 

Thank you so freaking much. 👍 that’s exactly what I wanted 

[dmccombe7]

Its all getting very scientifickly but i'm still curious as to what we all agree on. 

Dave 

[neepheid]

1 minute ago, dmccombe7 said:

Its all getting very scientifickly but i'm still curious as to what we all agree on. 

Dave 

 

Agree?  Here?  You're a hopeful soul!

[JohnH89]

I know what I agree on . Can't speak for the rest of you .......😁

[dmccombe7]

2 hours ago, JohnH89 said:

I know what I agree on . Can't speak for the rest of you .......😁

I beg to disagree.  

Dave

[tauzero]

2 hours ago, dmccombe7 said:

I beg to disagree.  

Dave

 

I would dispute that.

[Downunderwonder]

18 hours ago, BigRedX said:

 

What you diagram fails to take into account is that the action of the strings on the whole length of the neck is far, far greater than that of the screws acting against two almost insignificant pivot points approximately 50mm apart. For ski-jump to be caused by the presence of a shim it would have to occur between the neck bolts, yet all the anecdotal evidence I have seen points to it happening elsewhere - somewhere between the centre point of the neck and the heel. So while ski-jump might possibly be a thing, it's not being caused by fitting a shim. 

The ski jumps I have seen are all within the pocket section.

 

In that region the strings have almost same leverage over the neck whether there is a shim or not. But lifting the neck off the pocket at the rear gives that leverage somewhere to go.

[dmccombe7]

9 hours ago, tauzero said:

 

I would dispute that.

Are you sure, you don't sound very convincing. 

Dave

[dmccombe7]

3 hours ago, Downunderwonder said:

The ski jumps I have seen are all within the pocket section.

 

In that region the strings have almost same leverage over the neck whether there is a shim or not. But lifting the neck off the pocket at the rear gives that leverage somewhere to go.

Mine isn't horrendous but it starts where the neck heel starts which is approx 1-2" before the start of the pocket.

I don't know how that affects this debate but for me who is not a scientist that the issue lies more with the wood where it leaves the heel rather than the pocket area but as i said i'm no expert in wood, bass design, physics or quantum mechanics. I'm just a bass player and even that is questionable 

Dave

Edited March 26, 2024 by dmccombe7

[BigRedX]

3 hours ago, Downunderwonder said:

The ski jumps I have seen are all within the pocket section.

 

Please show me photographic evidence of this.

 

Also have all these instruments with alleged ski-jump in the neck pocket area had shims fitted? If so please show the shims too.

 

Also how long has it taken from the fitting of the shim for ski-jump to become a problem.

[JohnH89]

12 hours ago, dmccombe7 said:

I beg to disagree.  

Dave

I have to disagree with your disagreement . 😆

[tauzero]

2 hours ago, JohnH89 said:

I have to disagree with your disagreement . 😆

 

I'd like a second third fourth fifth opinion.

[TimR]

If you're shimming the pocket to take into account of neck bowing then you have to have that angle, so just shim one end. 

 

If you're shimming because the whole pocket is too deep (in this case), then you have to shim the whole pocket.

[BigRedX]

30 minutes ago, TimR said:

If you're shimming the pocket to take into account of neck bowing then you have to have that angle, so just shim one end. 

 

You should never be using a shim to counteract neck. That's what the truss rod is there for.

 

31 minutes ago, TimR said:

If you're shimming because the whole pocket is too deep (in this case), then you have to shim the whole pocket.

 

No you don't. The whole point of using a partial shim is that you can get away with something really small and thin (and probably invisible once the neck as been re-attached) that changes the angle at which the neck fits into the pocket which allows the saddles to be at a sensible height to get the right action.

 

I once did a series of diagrams clearly illustrating this but they appear to have been lost when Photobucket started wanting payment for image hosting.

[TimR]

48 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

 

You should never be using a shim to counteract neck. That's what the truss rod is there for.

 

 

No you don't. The whole point of using a partial shim is that you can get away with something really small and thin (and probably invisible once the neck as been re-attached) that changes the angle at which the neck fits into the pocket which allows the saddles to be at a sensible height to get the right action.

 

I once did a series of diagrams clearly illustrating this but they appear to have been lost when Photobucket started wanting payment for image hosting.

 

When building a guitar why would you route the pocket at an angle?

[badger]

1 hour ago, TimR said:

 

When building a guitar why would you route the pocket at an angle?

if the body's not flat-topped - making  the saddles considerably higher than the body end of the fretboard - then the pocket  will be routed sloped slightly backwards to compensate.  standard practise on Les Pauls & similar (glued-in neck on LPs of course, but you get the idea).

Edited March 26, 2024 by badger

[neepheid]

I wouldn't normally announce this, but I'm letting you know that this argumentative BS thread outlived its usefulness for me some time ago.  Unfollowed and out.

 

[Geek99]

@ped please lock my thread. It has become an argument-a-thon.