Primadonna bandmates

[Boodang]

Anybody else have band mates that think they’re rock stars?

I hate to break it to our band but we’re weekend warriors and not the latest mega in demand festival headlining rock stars they seem to think they are! 
So, the latest epic… I tried to organise a small music gathering with a local organiser, just 4 or 5 bands with some food stalls and some acoustic acts in between set changes. At the start everyone thinks it’s a good idea, now I’ve got one band saying they don’t get out of bed for less 500 bucks, the rest of my band say it’s too much effort for just a one hour set, and another band complaining I’m depping for their arch enemy so won’t play. Honestly!

Excuses from my band for not doing gigs now include; the set time is too short, the set time is too long (they won’t do more than 2 hours, so a tight window between too little and too much), it’s less than 500 bucks, it’s for charity (as in I don’t get paid), it’s the wrong audience and two nights on the trot is too much effort. 
We’re not young, everyone is a reasonable player, we’re not paying the bills by doing gigs, I play for the fun of it but seems to be an attitude with some of the band that money or billing is a sign of respect. I get it but I don’t think we can be that fussy or to be honest primadonna as we’re basically weekend warriors and the result is just less gigs which in my book is just less fun. 

[Lozz196]

I’ve been in bands with such types before and left because of them. I won’t work with people like that. There’s no point in confronting them about it or trying to get them to change as in their minds they are all that counts. As soon as “I’m not, I won’t, I don’t” starts to get banded about that’s me gone.

[Len_derby]

That’s a tough one. I tend to agree with @Lozz196, but I live in a relatively well-populated area where finding alternative like-minded people to play with is easy. 

Edited March 31 by Len_derby

[triplebass]

sounds like there’s not a lot of love for playing out there…

[Dan Dare]

It's not cut and dried. Whilst it may not be reasonable to expect big bucks unless one has some sort of profile, playing for absolutely nowt, especially when/if someone is profiting from your doing so is a no-no for me. I except charitable gigs from this, of course. I played at one last night, funnily enough - a local hospital fundraiser - where, incidentally, the organisers fed and watered us as a thank you. Nothing grand, but the gesture was appreciated.

 

I'm comfortably retired and I can afford to (and do) play for enjoyment. Many are not so fortunate. Even now, I expect to at least to cover my travel and out-of-pocket expenses. Like you, I'm not young, everyone in my bands are decent players (a couple of us have played for a living in the past) and, whilst we may not be paying the bills by doing gigs, we don't expect to incur additional ones, either.

 

In my case, I schlepp, set up and operate an expensive PA, in addition to playing. I've been asked in the past if I would mix other bands on the bill for no money. You can guess my reply. It's one thing to play for an hour or two for little to nothing, but work a 7 or 8 hour event (if you include set-up time, etc)? No thanks.

 

At the gathering you were attempting to organise, were the stallholders, those selling food and drinks, etc doing so for no payment?

 

 

Edited March 31 by Dan Dare

[tauzero]

We won't gig for ridiculously low money (we think we're worth £75 apiece minimum) but we'll do the odd charity gig (where we know the charity) and very occasional lowball. We're by no means precious about anything, and we are genuinely surprised when audience members tell us after a gig that we're the best band that's played there ever/for ages/since last week.

[Kiwi]

 

Hey it happens to the best of them.  Jean Michel Byron's experience with Toto is well documented.  The band edited the DVD footage so his role was relegated to backing singer with cameo.

[Boodang]

5 hours ago, Dan Dare said:

It's not cut and dried. Whilst it may not be reasonable to expect big bucks unless one has some sort of profile, playing for absolutely nowt, especially when/if someone is profiting from your doing so is a no-no for me. I except charitable gigs from this, of course. I played at one last night, funnily enough - a local hospital fundraiser - where, incidentally, the organisers fed and watered us as a thank you. Nothing grand, but the gesture was appreciated.

 

I'm comfortably retired and I can afford to (and do) play for enjoyment. Many are not so fortunate. Even now, I expect to at least to cover my travel and out-of-pocket expenses. Like you, I'm not young, everyone in my bands are decent players (a couple of us have played for a living in the past) and, whilst we may not be paying the bills by doing gigs, we don't expect to incur additional ones, either.

 

In my case, I schlepp, set up and operate an expensive PA, in addition to playing. I've been asked in the past if I would mix other bands on the bill for no money. You can guess my reply. It's one thing to play for an hour or two for little to nothing, but work a 7 or 8 hour event (if you include set-up time, etc)? No thanks.

 

At the gathering you were attempting to organise, were the stallholders, those selling food and drinks, etc doing so for no payment?

 

 

Unfortunately in Pakistan gig opportunities are very limited. There are no music venues here and basically gigs only happen because we organise them. Obviously this requires a dramatic shift in mindset in how you approach them. I think the problem here arises because if there’s a big event gig at say a hotel we’ll get big money because there’s limited bands to choose from, but normally we’ll be playing a small club or cafe and there’s limited money from organisers and limited audience, so we have adjust our expectations, something some of our band find hard to do. 
As regards the event we we’re trying to put together, I think the thing that most fecked me off was that everyone said yes at the beginning and then came up with what I think are bullcr*p excuses later. As for the food vendors, basically they don’t charge for turning up as they know they’ll make money on the day. To be honest people would come to an event here as much for the food as for the music! And they’ll sell a lot food, very much worth their while to turn up. 

[Supernaut]

Regarding charity gigs...

 

I take it you play covers?

 

On the originals circuit, quite often we come across promoters who advertise it has a charity gig, "So no pay tonight lads". It's not a charity gig, it's a we don't want to pay the bands gig so my band skip every single one of these. 

[Boodang]

55 minutes ago, Supernaut said:

Regarding charity gigs...

 

I take it you play covers?

 

On the originals circuit, quite often we come across promoters who advertise it has a charity gig, "So no pay tonight lads". It's not a charity gig, it's a we don't want to pay the bands gig so my band skip every single one of these. 

Yep, have come across those kind of promoters and obviously it’s a solid no. 
We do play covers and there are some genuine charity gigs here but the band should change its name to Heart of Stone. 

[Dan Dare]

5 hours ago, Boodang said:

As for the food vendors, basically they don’t charge for turning up as they know they’ll make money on the day. To be honest people would come to an event here as much for the food as for the music! And they’ll sell a lot food, very much worth their while to turn up. 

 

I wasn't asking whether the food vendors et al would charge for simply "turning up", but whether they would provide their goods free, too. As you point out, "they know they’ll make money on the day", so of course they'll "turn up". If someone is making money out of an event, why should the band not share in that? Perhaps the band members should just "turn up" for free, but not play anything...

 

Seems you need to address this with your bandmates, rather than coming on here and ranting about their "bullcr*p" and calling them "primadonnas" because they won't play for nothing. 

[TimR]

Finding musicians who work together musically is hard enough, before you put gigs into the mix.

 

People's lives change as well, when the join a band they may be free to play lots of gigs and happy to play for not much money, but I think what often happens is people are less free and so want more money to put off what ever else they (or their significant other) has planned. 

 

Also you have to factor in the people who want to be able to tell their freinds they're in a band, but don't actually want to be in a band. They're the ones who will do any low paid local gigs at the drop of a hat. 

 

Then there's the band leader who thinks the band isn't ready even after 10 years of weekly rehearsals where they change the arrangements each time a song is played. 

Edited April 1 by TimR

[Boodang]

14 minutes ago, Dan Dare said:

 

I wasn't asking whether the food vendors et al would charge for simply "turning up", but whether they would provide their goods free, too. As you point out, "they know they’ll make money on the day", so of course they'll "turn up". If someone is making money out of an event, why should the band not share in that? Perhaps the band members should just "turn up" for free, but not play anything...

 

Seems you need to address this with your bandmates, rather than coming on here and ranting about their "bullcr*p" and calling them "primadonnas" because they won't play for nothing. 

We have to create a music scene here as it doesn’t just happen. The bands aren’t being asked to play for free they’re just not getting top dollar and if there’s excess it will get shared out. The main complaint seems to be a lot of effort for a one hour set and a defeatist attitude of ‘it won’t be successful’. But it won’t be successful if we don’t try and to a certain extent we’re trying to create something for everyone not just the bands, so it feels more normal here and everyone can have a good time. Sometimes you just have to put yourself out. You have to bear in mind we’re living somewhere where there’s no music venues…. Like literally none. It only happens if we put ourselves out. 
So yes it’s a bit of a rant but also an invitation for others to share their experiences…. a chat amongst bass players. One might almost call it a ‘basschat’. 
And for discussing it with the band mates, well that’s been done to death and almost split up the band. As was mentioned earlier, when someone has a certain attitude and can’t be shifted, you soon learn to live with it and the way we operate revolves around it. And as was also mentioned, there’s a limited pool of musicians here so to a certain extent you have to make it work with what you’ve got. In terms of western style music in the whole of Islamabad there’s 6 bands. That’s it. 

[Gasman]

I’m impressed that there are ANY opportunities for western style music in your locale, must be like pushing water uphill...

[Boodang]

2 minutes ago, Gasman said:

I’m impressed that there are ANY opportunities for western style music in your locale, must be like pushing water uphill...

Thanks! It’s not easy… hence my rant! But the musicians are wonderful people just not the best of circumstances for them to flourish. 

[Richard R]

It sounds like you want to grow the scene and are prepared to be more flexible for the long term benefits, whereas the rest of the band all have more of a "this is us" mindset which works in an established scene.

 

Could you maybe thrash out in advance a set of Terms and Conditions that you can all agree to, and then say that if the gig meets these conditions then you will play it? 

 

 

Edited April 1 by Richard R
Typo...

[Boodang]

Just now, Richard R said:

It sounds like you want to grow the scene and are prepared to be more flexible for the long term benefits, whereas the rest of the band alhave more of a "this is us" mindset which works in an established scene.

 

Could you maybe thrash out in advance a set of Terms and Conditions that you can all agree to, and then say that if the gig meets these conditions then you will play it? 

 

Exactly this! I couldn’t put it better. I definitely need to work out T&Cs that work for everyone. 

[Richard R]

Hope it goes well.

[Dan Dare]

3 hours ago, Boodang said:

I definitely need to work out T&Cs that work for everyone. 

 

12 hours ago, Boodang said:

if there’s excess it will get shared out.

 

12 hours ago, Boodang said:

there’s a limited pool of musicians here so to a certain extent you have to make it work with what you’ve got.

 

Talk of Ts&Cs sounds almost the sort of thing an employer/agent would set up. Are you promoting the event(s) and will you earn, whether or not band members are paid? I ask as you mention you're playing in one band, depping in another and so on. You also refer to "sharing out any excess", which suggests the event will make money. Who gets that money? You've already acknowledged that food vendors and similar will earn.

Edited April 1 by Dan Dare

[Boodang]

47 minutes ago, Dan Dare said:

 

 

 

Talk of Ts&Cs sounds almost the sort of thing an employer/agent would set up. Are you promoting the event(s) and will you earn, whether or not band members are paid? I ask as you mention you're playing in one band, depping in another and so on. You also refer to "sharing out any excess", which suggests the event will make money. Who gets that money? You've already acknowledged that food vendors and similar will earn.

Anyone in a band here is at some stage an agent/promoter, otherwise no gigs would happen. I will be one of the people setting up/promoting the event and for that I won’t earn a penny. I have a main covers band I play in but it’s a small community here, so I’m depping on drums for another band until they find a replacement. I don’t charge for that either. We’ll hire a company to do FoH but the bass and drum gear on stage will be mine for bands to use. I’m not charging for that either. The bands will definitely get paid regardless, about £200 each, but if we make enough to pay more we’ll up it accordingly. As you can imagine there’s a fair amount to put up front to make this happen and it’s the first time we’ve done something like this, so who knows how it’ll turn out. I don’t think it’ll be a flop but equally I don’t know how successful it’ll be. 
As has been said, there’s no established scene here. I think my disappointment with certain band members attitude is that they’re quick to moan about the lack of a scene but won’t go out of their way to help establish one. 

Edited April 1 by Boodang

[12stringbassist]

Don't get me started...

[Kiwi]

5 hours ago, Boodang said:

Thanks! It’s not easy… hence my rant! But the musicians are wonderful people just not the best of circumstances for them to flourish. 

This is very similar to where I am.  Although the musicians here are either into hardcore thrash metal or soapy acoustic ballads.  There are no live covers bands for example and the city where I live is renowned as a night life destination.  Whatever people are doing, it doesn't appear to involve music performance.  Also even finding any musicians with performance experience can be a PITA too. 

[JottoSW1]

A deranged lead singer called Gypsy he was in a band called Tilt. I knew him late 80s early nineties.

Even in retrospect I get flashbacks to me thinking " oh my goodness , it's dingaling / space cadet time......

[diskwave]

Its always been a dilemma. Ive often found those types tend to be very good at what they do, they tend to have fiery difficult temperaments. Remember a fantastic male singer I worked with many moons ago. He and the hotel manager locked horns and one night he (the singer) stopped the band mid set and into the mic launched into the most awful dressing down of the guy....finished and we launched straight into Totos, Hold The Line...it was dramatic and bloody embarassing for all, but we carried on for the season because he was the draw. Crazy. 

[bassbiscuits]

I’ve been in bands with a few divas.
 

It didn’t take us long to realise we weren’t getting along.
 

Said band moved on, and I reformed another band with the members I still wanted to play with.