Factory visit to Chris Celinder's workshop, Copenhagen

[Flanker]

[quote]...well we did discuss his own frustrations with what he called misinformation appearing on the internet surrounding his dealings with customers. I could see that he felt he'd been burned (without wishing to go into any further detail) by a few extremely vocal individuals in the past.[/quote]

I know for a fact (because I saw an email he sent) that (at least in the past)he considers me one of these 'extremely vocal' individuals.

I have met Chris and found him a very pleasant person, he even came to my house to deliver a bass personally the first time I dealt with him.

I think he makes among, if not the, finest basses that can be bought.

However I wish he would stop it with the 'victim' mode.

I am a very easy going individual but being Scottish I will most definitely not stand back when I feel I am having the piss taken out of me, which is what happened a couple of times with Chris. I understand that he may well have been having personal problems but we all have issues to deal with, it's a tough world and we all live in it.

Perhaps [b]he[/b] needs to read some of the past threads here and on Talkbass and take on board the fact that he has not come up to an acceptable standard at times in the customer care department. Perhaps he needs to acknowledge that fact and move on.

Steve Mc Kinnell

[Kiwi]

Fair comment Steve, I know you've had issues with Chris and I deliberately didn't make enquiries because it wasn't any of my business. I also don't know how much of Chris's personal situation contributed to his state of mind last time you both spoke.

All I'll say is that Chris spoke with me about his dealings in the US. You didn't come up in conversations until much much later on (weeks later) and even then only in passing. I didn't get the impression that Chris felt bitter about his dealings with you. However, that's just my impression and nothing more.

[BigBeefChief]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='489746' date='May 16 2009, 12:48 PM']Oh wait let me see, is the real reason you're having a go me THIS time Beefy, because you think I've been seduced by the big names? Hmm and let me guess, the next question you're probably thinking of asking is what I got in exchange for what you may consider to be free advertising?

Assuming that its any of your business (not that it is) I didn't get anything out of it and I paid for my own airfare over there.[/quote]


Have you been drinking cough medicine again CK?

Why would I object to you talking positively about a luthier? Just because you're a mod, you can still have an opinion and still talk about an experience, free advertising or not. I think it's safe to say you haven't been "seduced my the big time" quite yet (unless you were there to discuss the CrazyKiwi Signature model?).

You've somehow come to this conclusion, and for some reason people have taken it as fact. My issue with your ammended post is far more superficial.

I quoted your original post, wrote a longish reply, and then before I hit "add reply" your post had been heavily edited. As there is no "this post has been edited tag", to the uninitiated it looks like I'm either miss quoting you, or quoting a different thread. It also seems a bit inconsistent.

When I write something that makes me look like a twat, I either have to suffer it or make a climb down by editing my post for the world to see. The mods can retrospectively change their posts without anyone knowing. That's why its important dood.

It's not the first time you've done this, so do as you wish. All I can do is ask for the mods to play by the same rules as us as often as possible, which I did in my post. Your assumption was interesting though.

For the record, apart from that minor point, I thought it was an interesting post. Personally I wasn't aware that there had been some customer service issue in the past. Never been a fan of Jazz updates really though.

[Kiwi]

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='490386' date='May 17 2009, 10:55 AM']You've somehow come to this conclusion, and for some reason people have taken it as fact. My issue with your ammended post is far more superficial.[/quote]
Then it's probably something you should have taken up with me via PM instead of jumping in on the thread in a very public, distracting and unwelcome manner.

[BigBeefChief]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='490398' date='May 17 2009, 11:13 AM']Then it probably something you could take up with me via PM instead of jumping in on the thread in a very public and unwelcome manner.[/quote]


Sorry. Well you know now. Glad I could be of assistance.

[OutToPlayJazz]

Nice thread, Steve - I know the 'small child walking into the fantastic toyshop' feeling you get when you get when you visit your favourite luthier only too well! Is an order being placed soon?

Excellent & informative report, btw. Definitely yet more food for thought!

Rich.

[Kiwi]

[quote name='OutToPlayJazz' post='490637' date='May 17 2009, 04:39 PM']Nice thread, Steve - I know the 'small child walking into the fantastic toyshop' feeling you get when you get when you visit your favourite luthier only too well! Is an order being placed soon?[/quote]
cheers Rich, its still going to be second hand Celinders for me, for the time being I think. Although who knows what the future might hold? I would have done one on Jon Shukers workshop too but half the forum has probably visited there at some time or another

[Hamster]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='490678' date='May 17 2009, 05:22 PM']cheers Rich, its still going to be second hand Celinders for me, for the time being I think. Although who knows what the future might hold? I would have done one on Jon Shukers workshop too but half the forum has probably visited there at some time or another [/quote]

Thanks for the little peek inside his world! I think secondhand is as far as Celinders will get as buyers tend to hang onto them - I won't be able to justify buying one until they're at least fourteenth hand! - But thinking about that, that will involve perhaps a 28 year wait, by which time it will be a Vintage Celinder with Mojo and twice the original price - bugger!

[risingson]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='489896' date='May 16 2009, 04:11 PM']Yes I did Jack, the bass is a genuine '64 Hofner and was brought in for a restoration job by one of Chris's customers. It needed a pickup rewinding and the electrics needed looking at. I plucked a few of the strings and it seemed to be a very resonant instrument. I didn't dare pick it up in that state though just incase something fell out and rolled under a cabinet.


He does have plans in place to put the site back up. There's a lot going on in his mind at the moment and I think he's very worried that he will get so sucked into spending all his time managing the backlog orders and customer relationships that he won't have any time for his first love which is building the instruments (which is what actually brings in the money and makes the business viable). He doesn't want to delegate the building of instruments to anyone else because they don't have his experience or skill. I should have asked him why he doesn't get someone in to manage the customer side of things and leave him to deal with the instruments but I think he might feel there's no point if everything comes back to getting the basses out the door and maintaining a reputation for quality.

I think he's in a very similar situation to Jon Shuker where he doesn't have a wide pool of skilled labour to draw on and he doesn't have the time to spend training someone up so ultimately he takes on 100% responsibility for producing the instruments.[/quote]

I don't know anything about his business ideal at all, but if he could ever afford the overheads, then someone to manage his orders and the website that he has faith in and someone with a genuine love for his instruments would be a great asset. Promotion is always vital to business, and I know there is a worldwide interest in his marvelous basses, both on the continent and in the U.S. He's my favourite luthier next to Roger Sadowsky respectively.

I'm hoping to hunt an Update model down in the summer when I'm over in Copenhagen very briefly so I can finally try one out!

Liam

[SpinalTap]

Thanks for the pictures and info about your visit to Chris workplace, CrazyKiwi!



Wow, would really like to play this bass. It's alot like the Celinder I have on order.
Except mine will be a 4 string, and will have a Cocobolo top (I think this one is Koa) and no fretlines, only sidelines.

I really enjoyed my meeting with Chris last year. Very nice guy, and he learned me alot about the craft of making the perfect bass.

[wombatboter]

Thanks for the tour... nice to see the face behind the bass I have been playing. Still very pleased with it, sold my old Fender because it was no match for the Celinder.

[Marcus]

If I could be sure i'd get the instrument in time for my 40th (18.09.2010) I might be tempted to go down that route for my Birthday Bass !

[SpinalTap]

I think the waitinglist is about 2 years, So it can be the perfect gift for your 41th birthday party

[beardybass]

This is a really cool thread!

I kinda like the fact that he charges like 3 or 4 grand for a bass and still works in a tiny little workshop like that, gives the impression that he spends most of his money on gear and cool woods for making geet class basses!

Also, I've often wondered what it's like playing a bass with an epoxy coated fingerboard? I play a lot of fretless and upright, so I've always been intrigued, but never had the opportunity to try one out. (Only time I ever saw a pentabuzz was in Tokyo, and the guy in the shop wasn't too forthcoming with the tryouts like! But then, who can blame him!)

Anyway, just intrigued, really interesting stuff cheers for that Kiwi.

Dan

Edited May 31, 2009 by beardybass

[Bigwan]

I've said this before a couple of times here.

The Scarbee Celinder is, without a shadow of a doubt, the best bass I've ever layed hands on. I'll have my own Celinder one day...

[TDM]

Thanks for posting this.

I had no idea Celinder was such a small operation! I always figured it was a European Sadowsky type thing and wondered why they were so expensive.

[OldGit]

[quote name='beardybass' post='502329' date='May 31 2009, 03:36 PM']This is a really cool thread!

I kinda like the fact that he charges like 3 or 4 grand for a bass and still works in a tiny little workshop like that, gives the impression that he spends most of his money on gear and cool woods for making geet class basses![/quote]

4 grand for a hand made is just a sensible price.
The huge amount of work and skill that goes into one should justify this kind of price.
No one will ever get rich making hand made basses because the market won't stand the kind of price that will enable the luthier to make enough money.

Reporter: "Congratulations on winning the lottery. Do you have any plans?"
Luthier: "Sure, I'm going to continue my hand made bass business until the money runs out"

[Ricki_Bass_DK]

I'm not sure if you know it ( probably not ) but the Celinder factory has in fact shut down. Apparently Chris was too bad a businessman, which means that he couldn't keep his times of delivery. I know several bassplayer that waited for more than 2 years for delivery. I guess the bad reputation caught up with him.
Sorry - the basses are great!

[funkle]

[quote name='Ricki_Bass_DK' post='576318' date='Aug 21 2009, 06:00 AM']I'm not sure if you know it ( probably not ) but the Celinder factory has in fact shut down. Apparently Chris was too bad a businessman, which means that he couldn't keep his times of delivery. I know several bassplayer that waited for more than 2 years for delivery. I guess the bad reputation caught up with him.
Sorry - the basses are great![/quote]

Really? Is this confirmed? I was just starting to get interested...

[Kiwi]

Chris used to run a successful bass shop in Copenhagen before he started building basses so I'm not so sure his business skills are up for question. I do know the problems Chris has been facing but out of respect to his privacy I'm not at liberty to divulge them publically.

He also shut down the original workshop because the previous landlord raised the rents by a significant amount. Then he moved to the location I visited which was closer to the airport anyway. Are you suggesting this location has shut down also?

[funkle]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='608105' date='Sep 24 2009, 08:10 PM']Chris used to run a successful bass shop in Copenhagen before he started building basses so I'm not so sure his business skills are up for question. I do know the problems Chris has been facing but out of respect to his privacy I'm not at liberty to divulge them publically.

He also shut down the original workshop because the previous landlord raised the rents by a significant amount. Then he moved to the location I visited which was closer to the airport anyway. Are you suggesting this location has shut down also?[/quote]

Ricki Bass? You out there? Enquiring minds would like to know the answer

[Toasted]

Why not just phone one of his distributers instead of listening to hear'say on the internet? The Bass Gallery are the UK agent, and I understand Martin and Christian are good friends. I'm sure he'll know/

[funkle]

[quote name='Toasted' post='608343' date='Sep 25 2009, 09:07 AM']Why not just phone one of his distributers instead of listening to hear'say on the internet? The Bass Gallery are the UK agent, and I understand Martin and Christian are good friends. I'm sure he'll know/[/quote]

Already emailed them. Thanks!

[Toasted]

I don't understand the aversion to the telephone in the modern world. My girlfriend won't even phone the take-away.

[backseatbetty]

[quote name='Toasted' post='608447' date='Sep 25 2009, 11:24 AM']I don't understand the aversion to the telephone in the modern world. My girlfriend won't even phone the take-away.[/quote]


Celinder, what gives? No more site, doesn' t reply calls. Anyone??

C