Speaker replacement in old TE cab

[TRBboy]

1 hour ago, Balcro said:

The results are in!
Based upon the OP's supplied internal dimensions, the Faital and the LaVoce are very close. WinISD calculates the net volume as 59.80 litres and with those two ports, the tuning is 60.06Hz.  LaVoce is mauve line, the Faital is orange. Input power 180W. Both are very loud.

See graphs for transfer function, power handling and cone excursion.

 

Faital Pro 400 neo £179.

Thanks so much for taking the time to do this, that's super useful! 🙏

 

To my uneducated eye, they do look VERY similar! So much so that the £50 cheaper LaVoce is probably more appealing, although the Faital is Neo so would be a weight saving.... Not that it's an especially heavy cab anyway. 

 

Would still love to find the source of this noise first, just to make sure it is the speaker and not something weird with the enclosure 😅

[Phil Starr]

On 23/04/2024 at 15:19, TRBboy said:

Just been looking at it again, and the 'ambient' noise seems to have gone....? There is still a buzzing when played, most noticeable at low volume. Doesn't seem to happen on higher notes, or not as noticeably, worst on anything below open E string. 

 

I've checked for anything loose but can't find anything. It does seem like it could be something loose, but definitely seems to be the actual speaker. Can't find any damage to the cone or suspension... Puzzling.

 

It sounds really good apart from this infernal noise! 🤬

This does sound like something that might be fixable, certainly worth investigating as it will cost you nothing but time. It could be the cab or equally possibly the speaker so the first thing to do is to remove the speaker from the cab. Almost anything in or on the cab can buzz, a loose screw somewhere or a bit of wood that is no longer glued. cables can buzz against the speaker cone if they can touch it or against a panel, torn bits of vinyl covering can flap and resonate and you can get all sorts introduced through speaker vents. I found a load of hazel shells inside one cab which some mice had dicovered. cabs are wood and everything can be fixed and reglued. Check handles, corners, the grille and even the input sockets.

 

Bad news is if the speaker coil is rubbing/buzzing. that's not repairable by you and a professional repair will probably cost as much as a new speaker. You can check for this by gently pushing the cone in a few times and listen for any scratching noises. This takes some care. If you push from one side the coil will rub against the magnet and you will cause further damage. Use a pint glass or similar and push the cone with that so there is no sideways pressure and be gentle.

 

Now check the speaker magnet, anything made of iron that has come loose will stick to the magnet. That means any screws or other fixings will probably end up there and can cause buzzing.

 

Old speakers often fail because the glues used in their manufacture break down over time. Favourite is the dust cover, the dome in the middle of the speaker particularly if it is dented or mis-shaped. Ive also seen speaker cones come away from the metal basket. Go right around the corrugated surround and check it isn't coming away from the metal frame. If it has a separate pleated surround that can also come away from the cone. Also look for any tears in the surround which will also buzz. look for tears in the cone itself. All of this can be re-glued, I use a latex based adhesive to do any repairs, it sticks well to paper and remains flexible when the glue has cured. biger tears I have repaired by building up layers of ordinary tissue paper though Japanese Tissue is stronger if you can get it. Artists suppliers may stock it as it is used to repair paper and canvasses.

 

If you find nothing try putting a signal through the speaker out of the cab on your bench. You can get online signal generators that let you put a pure tone through the speaker so you can scan up and down a couple of octaves and look for any resonances try 50-200Hz. Don't go too loud though, the speaker cone will move further when out of the cab and a long way with really low frequencies, you don't want it moving more than 5mm but it will probably buzz most at particular frequencies and that might help you find the buzzy bit. If you can't get the speaker to buzz outside the cab then its the cab or the way the speaker was fixed. Put the speaker back in the cab and fix it down firmly. If the gasket is damaged or absent then you can use an insulating foam strip to replace it. Mke sure all the fixings tighten down properly if one screw or bolt is loose that may cause your buzz.

 

Good luck and don't jump to conclusions if you find anything, it may be lots of little buzzes on an old cab and speaker.

 

[Phil Starr]

Well done @Balcro really good information.

 

Of those two responses I'd go for the Faital The LaVoce has a 2db peak centered around 110Hz which will give a noticably warmer less focussed sound whilst the Faital clearly has a stronger magnet giving a tighter bass. That's not by a huge amount but it will be noticeable. That's not to say @TRBboy that you might not prefer the warmer sound and it might well be what the original Trace speaker sounded like. It's not uncommon for commercial speakers to be created to be artificially warm and many bassists like that sound.

[King Tut]

Are you sure it’s not a mechanical noise - from the grille? I refurbed an old Trace cab and I got exactly that, just had to manipulate the grille a little.

[Downunderwonder]

I may have missed it but have you tried a different bass and amp before condemning the cab?

[TRBboy]

12 hours ago, King Tut said:

Are you sure it’s not a mechanical noise - from the grille? I refurbed an old Trace cab and I got exactly that, just had to manipulate the grille a little.

Obviously I recently had this cab completely stripped down to refurbish, so should be all good, but I've checked everything's tight anyway. Always try to check the easy things first 😅

[TRBboy]

2 hours ago, Downunderwonder said:

I may have missed it but have you tried a different bass and amp before condemning the cab?

Yes tried different amp, basses, cables etc. 

 

[King Tut]

53 minutes ago, TRBboy said:

Obviously I recently had this cab completely stripped down to refurbish, so should be all good, but I've checked everything's tight anyway. Always try to check the easy things first 😅

check that there’s actually sufficient clearance between the driver and the grill. If there’s a slight deformation on the grill, it might be touching. Try the speaker with the grille detached!

[TRBboy]

23 minutes ago, King Tut said:

check that there’s actually sufficient clearance between the driver and the grill. If there’s a slight deformation on the grill, it might be touching. Try the speaker with the grille detached!

Thanks, yeah I did that. The grille was a bit deformed when I got it, and although I straightened it out it was still bowing in too much for my liking. I added a rubber spacer between the grille and the baffle to combat this.

[Balcro]

17 hours ago, Phil Starr said:

Well done @Balcro really good information.

 

Of those two responses I'd go for the Faital The LaVoce has a 2db peak centered around 110Hz which will give a noticably warmer less focussed sound whilst the Faital clearly has a stronger magnet giving a tighter bass. That's not by a huge amount but it will be noticeable. That's not to say @TRBboy that you might not prefer the warmer sound and it might well be what the original Trace speaker sounded like. It's not uncommon for commercial speakers to be created to be artificially warm and many bassists like that sound.

 

APOLOGIES TO TRBBoy and Phil Starr:-

 

In my earlier text I transposed the colours for the two drivers. It is the Faital that is the MAUVE line, the LaVoce is ORANGE.

 

Regards,

 

Balcro.

 

 

[Phil Starr]

That makes it an easier choice go for the orange.

[SimonK]

Potentially silly question - but the original cab/combo comes up pretty frequently on ebay and the like so why don't you just buy another one for £150 or so and then flip the speaker? For that matter I have one currently not in use (see piccy - top cab) which I could probably sell & send to you if you want, unless you happen to be coming past Southampton anytime soon?

 

[TRBboy]

2 hours ago, SimonK said:

Potentially silly question - but the original cab/combo comes up pretty frequently on ebay and the like so why don't you just buy another one for £150 or so and then flip the speaker? For that matter I have one currently not in use (see piccy - top cab) which I could probably sell & send to you if you want, unless you happen to be coming past Southampton anytime soon?

 

It's a good suggestion, but for that money I think I'd rather buy a new speaker for piece of mind, rather than another used one of unknown quality. Plus, the one I bought was £20, I wouldn't entertain buying one for £150.

[SimonK]

...to be fair I was think £20ish for mine albeit we would need to work out postage/transport - the £150 would get you a working combo from ebay giving you an amp to play with too!

[TRBboy]

1 hour ago, SimonK said:

...to be fair I was think £20ish for mine albeit we would need to work out postage/transport - the £150 would get you a working combo from ebay giving you an amp to play with too!

Ah okay, makes sense! Where are you?

[Downunderwonder]

It's obvious how this is going to pan out....

 

Fully refurbed stack of doom with two new drivers and the old good driver flipped for 20 quid.

[TRBboy]

13 hours ago, Downunderwonder said:

It's obvious how this is going to pan out....

 

Fully refurbed stack of doom with two new drivers and the old good driver flipped for 20 quid.

Funny you say that, I had actually thought about changing the speaker on the Ashdown cab at some point too, it's not the original one in there, and whilst it sounds okay I did get to wondering.... 😅

[SimonK]

I'm just going to dig my old speaker out and check it before I commit to anything - but at risk of giving you other ideas have you seen:

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/186394272088?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=e2r3IhAQSrS&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

 

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Without the Thiele-Small parameters one can't offer an objective opinion.

[Downunderwonder]

10 hours ago, TRBboy said:

Funny you say that, I had actually thought about changing the speaker on the Ashdown cab at some point too, it's not the original one in there, and whilst it sounds okay I did get to wondering.... 😅

I actually meant taking on the other ampless combo and making it like your one. Then treating yourself to two new drivers and flipping the rest.

[SimonK]

Got the cab out this weekend and the good news is that the speaker works fine and the cab is in much better condition than I remember. The maybe not bad but unsure news is that the speaker does not say "Trace Elliot" on the speaker diaphragm which means it could be from before Trace started doing this, but without taking the whole thing apart I can't confirm whether the speaker is indeed original. I have no idea of the history as I think this came in as part of a clear-out deal with some other items.

 

RE price, I think given the condition is not at all bad I would be after £50 for speaker and cab together - although as mentioned it probably isn't worth posting. I'm in SO30.

[TRBboy]

Hi guys, sorry to resurrect this one again. 

 

Alas, life got in the way before, and I missed out on the speakers I was looking at.... 🤦

 

I have now seen the following for sale for a good price, would any of you kind people with the tech know-how be able to tell me if it'd be suitable for my cab?

 

https://www.jensentone.com/bass-speakers/punch-bp-15250

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

The Jensen is not very good. Response is boomy, while it's mechanically limited to 150w.

[TRBboy]

8 hours ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

The Jensen is not very good. Response is boomy, while it's mechanically limited to 150w.

Ah damn, that's a shame! Thanks though Bill🙏

I love the Jensen/Sica drivers in my GR Bass cab, so was very hopeful

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

The brand doesn't matter, the specs do. In this case that driver works best in a 300 liter cab, not 90, while the short 3.4mm xmax is barely adequate for electric bass.