Helix Stomp vs Kemper Profiler Player for bass

[Garsi]

Dear bass lovers!

I'm very interested in your opinion on which device sounds better. Kemper profiler player or Helix Stomp?

I want to replace my amplifier with one of these effects. I want the sound of my bass to be as real as possible. I don't use effects in my playing, but I would like to have the opportunity to use them.

I am asking for your opinions on which effect will allow me to obtain a powerful, low, fat bass sound.

 

Thank you in advance for your opinions!

[BigRedX]

"Real" is entirely subjective, as is what constitutes a "powerful, low, fat bass sound".

 

I'm a Helix user, but either device should be capable of producing a suitable sound so long as you program with your ears and not with your eyes.

 

Despite having ditched my traditional bass rig for just the Helix going direct into the PA, I very rarely use any amp or cab models. Remember that the important elements of your sound that the amp gives are the EQ section and, if it has valves, the drive sound. The cab is just essentially a LPF. I found that using a good EQ module and a distortion module is far more flexible, as you can mix and match to find a combination that you like, and the two elements are not tied together in a single amp sim.

 

If you do decide to use amp sims don't forget to try all of them - not just the ones that are supposed to be for bass. Remember that many vintage bass amps are simply guitar amps with a different name and occasionally the EQ frequencies adjusted for the lower notes. And unlike the real thing there is no possibility or damaging anything by using the "wrong" amp model. The worst that can happen is that you won't like the sound, in which case you can move on and try another.

[acidbass]

41 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

Despite having ditched my traditional bass rig for just the Helix going direct into the PA, I very rarely use any amp or cab models.

Likewise.  I use a HPF/LPF block which I suppose simulates a cab's sonic range, and a different preamp depending on the gig (Zeroamp or Regal).  Very happy with the tone!

[javi_bassist]

Another happy HX Stomp user.

 

1 hour ago, BigRedX said:

Despite having ditched my traditional bass rig for just the Helix going direct into the PA, I very rarely use any amp or cab models.

 

Me too. When I got the Stomp, I tried to recreate the tone I had with my pedalboard and my amp. However, now I use other "effects" to get a really nice sound. 

 

Both units will be great. However, I don't know about the Kemper, but I guess it will be the same: it's not plug and play. You will need to learn how it works. But it is a great path. 

[joel406]

The Quadcortex has so much for bass (and guitar) it's not funny. With all the Mesa and Darkglass stuff on hand as well as a Noble preamp package out there the tones are right at your finger tips. And the Cortex cloud takes it even further.

[Garsi]

4 hours ago, joel406 said:

The Quadcortex has so much for bass (and guitar) it's not funny. With all the Mesa and Darkglass stuff on hand as well as a Noble preamp package out there the tones are right at your finger tips. And the Cortex cloud takes it even further.

Unfortunately, due to price, Quadcortex is out of the question

[joel406]

10 hours ago, Garsi said:

Unfortunately, due to price, Quadcortex is out of the question

Really?

 

I got two of em.

[WinterMute]

I swapped out my old Line6 Bass Pod Pro for a Stomp HX, and that worked for a while, I changed to a Quad Cortex last year and it's a much better unit in terms of sound and usability, however the Helix is also a cracking unit for bass and guitar my guitarist has been using his for a few years and swears by it.

 

The Stomp sounds great , but it's a bit of a b*gg*r to programme with that small screen, and the desktop editor is slooooooow.

 

The Kemper is a very capable unit, but it doesn't have the flexibility of the QC or the Helix, and I found that the various patches would sound increasingly processed the further away from the original profile you went in terms of EQ and processing.

 

I'd suggest you try to pick up a second had Helix if the QC is really out of reach, but I'd also suggest selling a kidney to get a QC.

[BigRedX]

8 minutes ago, WinterMute said:

The Stomp sounds great , but it's a bit of a b*gg*r to programme with that small screen, and the desktop editor is slooooooow.

 

AFAIK the same editor works with all of the Helix range, so I find this a bit strange, as on my 14 year old MacPro there is nothing slow about it when programming my Helix Floor. What other devices do you have on the same USB bus?

[0175westwood29]

I have both a rack kemper and the stomp, use them both the stomp for a more synth sound straight to pa and my kemper(powered) through an 810 or 215 

 

love both but prefer having the profiles of actual amps on the kemper rather than having to find and edit the hx to be close, which it can def do. 

[WinterMute]

13 hours ago, BigRedX said:

 

AFAIK the same editor works with all of the Helix range, so I find this a bit strange, as on my 14 year old MacPro there is nothing slow about it when programming my Helix Floor. What other devices do you have on the same USB bus?

 

It was very odd actually, seemed to work ok to start with, but then slowed right down, long lags after any click, no way to operate in real time... I only have a few things on the usb, Nord Piano, small drum pad programmer, iLok, the usual. All my audio is either AUD thunderbolt or analogue. The mac was a 2013 Mac Pro, which never had an issue with DSP. Seemed to work fine on my mates Helix/laptop combo.

 

TBF I'd have changed to the QC whether the Stomp programmer worked or not. The QC desktop editor isn't all that a yet but it's very much easier to programme with the touch screen and the rotary soft pots.

[BigRedX]

I found that the Helix could be quite picky about what it shared its USB bus with. For it to work reliably as an audio interface it was best on its own USB bus although before I moved it, I hadn't noticed any slowness with the HX Edit application. However if I was sending it a lot of MIDI data from Logic, HX Edit would loose the connection, and I would have to click the reconnect button before doing further editing. Remember also that on a Mac each USB socket is not necessarily on its own bus and some of them share one of the internal buses for things like WiFi and Bluetooth. The System Profiler Utility is your friend for troubleshooting these situations.

 

Unfortunately I could never consider the QC, it just doesn't look robust enough for some of gigging environments I encounter. Because of the external PSU without a locking connector, and lack of expression pedal it would have to be mounted with those on a pedal board which makes it a lot bulkier and cumbersome. One of the great things about the Helix Floor is that it is effectively its own pedal board. Can the QC be programmed from the "front panel" without using the touch screen? Touch screens do not like my fingers. Often my iPad and phone fail to recognise that I am using them and for me, supermarket self-checkouts are almost useless.

[javi_bassist]

Well, I think the HX Stomp and the Quad Cortex are not in the same league. The HX is just a small Helix. The right comparison would be a full Helix against the Quad Cortex.

 

The singer/guitarist of my band has a Quadcortex and it sounds really really good. I have considered one myself. However, I must say that I feel pretty comfortable within the Line 6 ecosystem and I don't really want to move. If Line 6 made a full Helix the size of a Quadcortex, I'd get it without hesitation. I'm not saying it's better, I think it's a matter of taste.

 

 

[BigRedX]

For me the larger size of the Helix Floor was one of the main selling points. On the smaller models the foot switches are just a bit too close together to hit accurately in the middle of a performance, and I find that only the front row of switches are useable mid-song, as trying to access anything further up the device will also result in me pressing something I didn't intend to with my heel. I have my Helix set up so that I only need to use the front row of switches while I'm playing. 

[javi_bassist]

4 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

Unfortunately I could never consider the QC, it just doesn't look robust enough for some of gigging environments I encounter. Because of the external PSU without a locking connector, and lack of expression pedal it would have to be mounted with those on a pedal board which makes it a lot bulkier and cumbersome. One of the great things about the Helix Floor is that it is effectively its own pedal board. 

 

I have to admit that I have never thought about the Helix this way. I am not sure what you mean about the expression pedal, but it is true that the Helix seems a more robust unit that the QC. The singer/guitarist I play with has the QC in a hard case. He just removes the top of the case and play with it. But I also play with another guitarist who uses the Helix LT. And she takes it without any hard case, just in her bag. 

[javi_bassist]

1 minute ago, BigRedX said:

For me the larger size of the Helix Floor was one of the main selling points. On the smaller models the foot switches are just a bit too close together to hit accurately in the middle of a performance, and I find that only the front row of switches are useable mid-song, as trying to access anything further up the device will also result in me pressing something I didn't intend to with my heel. I have my Helix set up so that I only need to use the front row of switches while I'm playing. 

 

Also true. I sometimes hit two switches in my HX and it drives me crazy. 

 

And I must say that as you said, I prefer to program in the Helix (Helix LT is the one that I tried) than in a QC with a touchscreen. 

[BigRedX]

3 minutes ago, javi_bassist said:

I have to admit that I have never thought about the Helix this way. I am not sure what you mean about the expression pedal, but it is true that the Helix seems a more robust unit that the QC. The singer/guitarist I play with has the QC in a hard case. He just removes the top of the case and play with it. But I also play with another guitarist who uses the Helix LT. And she takes it without any hard case, just in her bag. 

 

I have the Line6 Helix gig bag which is prefect for my needs. All the associated leads, and my passive EMO DI box, go in the front pocket so everything I need apart form my bass is contained within this one case. Also by doing it this way it doesn't matter which bass I'm using I won't have left anything at home. If I had a device like the QC, with it's external power supply and separate expression pedal they would all need to be mounted on a pedal board for reliability and suddenly the smaller form factor is no longer an advantage. I have found that depending on the size of the device having it mounted on a board or in case base, can make the foot switches too high to be comfortable.

 

8 minutes ago, javi_bassist said:

Also true. I sometimes hit two switches in my HX and it drives me crazy. 

 

Because of this, with one of my bands I now have all my Preset and Snapshot changes automated as part of the backing track, which is our drummer and second synth player. All I need the pedals for is to access the tuner and as an automated set list using the Preset names. I'm aiming to do the same with the other main band I play with.

 

10 minutes ago, javi_bassist said:

And I must say that as you said, I prefer to program in the Helix (Helix LT is the one that I tried) than in a QC with a touchscreen. 

 

I do the bulk of my programming at home using the HX Edit application. The front panel interface is only used for fine tuning at rehearsals.

[WinterMute]

No, you can't really use the QC without the touch screen, which is actually pretty good for such things, but I do know some peoples skin conductance doesn't play well with touch screens.

 

The QC is built like a tank, but I do see your point about the pedal, and the PSU connector to an extent, I think they've an expectation that it'll be incorporated into a larger system for live work.

 

The full Helix is a great board no doubt, I did consider the rack version and controller for a while, but I don't play live often enough for the form factor to work in my little studio, the QC fits very well and I'm very happy with the noise it makes.

 

Edited April 19 by WinterMute
typos

[javi_bassist]

16 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

 

I have the Line6 Helix gig bag which is prefect for my needs. All the associated leads, and my passive EMO DI box, go in the front pocket so everything I need apart form my bass is contained within this one case.

 

I do the bulk of my programming at home using the HX Edit application. The front panel interface is only used for fine tuning at rehearsals.

 

Do you use an external DI? Don't you like the ones in the Helix? Or is it for something else?

 

I also do the programming in the HX Edit. However, I don't think the interface of the Helix (or HX Stomp) is bad. I like it. But maybe it's because I'm used to it. 

[WinterMute]

4 minutes ago, javi_bassist said:

 

Do you use an external DI? Don't you like the ones in the Helix? Or is it for something else?

 

I also do the programming in the HX Edit. However, I don't think the interface of the Helix (or HX Stomp) is bad. I like it. But maybe it's because I'm used to it. 

 

I think that's an important factor, these all in one systems are complex and multi-layered, getting used to one is hard work, let alone 2 or 3. 

 

One of the reasons I like the QC is that I have a Helix readily available for recording if I need one, and my guitarist uses a couple of patches on the QC that he likes foe certain sounds. Best of both worlds.

 

I think if you find a system you like the sound of, put the time into learning it well and then get on with the music.

 

Edited April 19 by WinterMute

[BigRedX]

6 minutes ago, WinterMute said:

The full Helix is a great board no doubt, I did consider the race version and controller for a while, but I don't-lay live often enough for the form factor to work in my little studio, the QC fits very well and I'm very happy with the noise it makes.

 

I ruled out the rack version because of Line6's insistence of using cat5e cables to connect their foot controllers. 

 

Before I got the Helix I had a BassPod and a Longboard foot controller. Standard cat5e cables lasted less than a month before either the retaining clip on the plug broke, or one of the conductors in the cable failed. Eventually I bought two very expensive leads with heavy duty shrouded connectors and "coilable" Van Damme cable. These were better but the cable stopped being coilable after about a year and failed shortly afterwards. 

 

The problem is that my gear is set up broken down multiple times in the week. I play in two bands which means a minimum of 2 rehearsals a week plus anything up to 3 gigs. And in between the gear is set up at home for writing and recording. Often at gigs I often have to clear the stage and pack everything away in under 15 minutes, usually in less than ideal conditions, and I can't always be as careful with coiling the leads as I would like.

 

Jack and XLR leads are perfectly capable of taking this kind of abuse - I'm using cables that I made up over 25 years ago that are still working perfectly. Consumer grade computer cables simple can't cope, so I avoid them as far as possible for gig use.

 

 

[BigRedX]

10 minutes ago, javi_bassist said:

Do you use an external DI? Don't you like the ones in the Helix? Or is it for something else?

 

The XLR output from my Helix is used to connect to an FRFR cab for those gigs that require me to have "backline", and I have the Helix set up so that the front panel volume control only affects this output. The DI connects to the main jack out which is always at full volume for the PA, so I can adjust my volume on stage without affecting the PA send. This setup means that I don't have to change the volume control assignments between gigs, rehearsals and home recording/practice, and is one less thing to worry about getting right. It also means that I am transformer isolated from the PA just in case something nasty comes down the cables. One of my bands does this for all our PA feeds.

[WinterMute]

When I used the Bass Pod rack I had the same controller you mention, got it second hand and the cable was faulty, I just got a length of Cat6 armoured cable, the kind you bury in gardens, made up a lead long enough and used that for about 5 years, I didn't play anywhere near as often as you, but it went in and out of studios and vans for a good while. I had a rack drawer mounted backwards in my rack, all the cables coiled straight into that.

 

Network cables were never meant to be road worthy, it;s one of the things that bother me about Dante for live work.