Hellzero Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 I know you'd prefer a standalone version, but when I started learning piano I was looking for a flashing metronome that I couldn't miss as I can't stand a noise making one (it really hurts my ears). After trying a lot, I found this app version of what seems to be a more than complete model: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.eumlab.android.prometronome I put it on my tablet and it was just perfect. It even has a polyrhythmic mode and you can set the light almost wherever you want. Worth giving it a try. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 26 minutes ago, Marky L said: And my bass would be around his head! It's just a frustration that I am dweling on too much, but it could be a quick and easy fix. Obviously I did employ a little artistic licence for comedic effect. I would just hold it close enough so he was aware and could act upon it. The British Association of Anger Management ... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 4 hours ago, lowdown said: What's wrong? See my previous post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 2 hours ago, TimR said: See my previous post. I did, but I didn't understand what you were talking about. Judging by your post, neither did you. That's why I asked. 👍 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowB_FTW Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 All this talk of drummers counting the songs in reminds me of this … Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 1 hour ago, lowdown said: I did, but I didn't understand what you were talking about. Judging by your post, neither did you. That's why I asked. 👍 It's not the drummer's job to keep the band's time. I said I wished more people realised that and understood it. The first paragraph of the link says its the drummers job to keep time. Pretty much proving my point that too many people (mainly drummers) think it is the drummers job. Even the OP realises that the drummer isn't there to keep the band in time. The band can do that themselves - especially when the drummer isn't able to and needs a flashing beacon stuck in their line of sight. I wasted years playing with a drummer who sped up if I stopped playing. Every song we played I had to lean back on the beat in order to keep time. One gig I had had enough and went with him on the final song. It just crashed and burned when it was going so fast the singer couldn't get the words out. The singer tore him a new one afterwards. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssexBuccaneer Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 On 19/04/2024 at 09:47, TimR said: I don't know why drummers insist on counting in the band. It's not the drummers responsibility to keep the band in time. I wish more drummers and musicians recognised that. If he can't stay in time with the rest of the band he needs to go away and practice drumming. The drummer controls *everything*. If he can’t, it’s time to get one who can. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 19 hours ago, TimR said: It's not the drummer's job to keep the band's time. The first paragraph of the link says its the drummers job to keep time. Even the OP realises that the drummer isn't there to keep the band in time. The band can do that themselves - especially when the drummer isn't able to and needs a flashing beacon stuck in their line of sight. I wasted years playing with a drummer who sped up if I stopped playing. Every song we played I had to lean back on the beat in order to keep time. One gig I had had enough and went with him on the final song. It just crashed and burned when it was going so fast the singer couldn't get the words out. Maybe at the time, you should have recruited a Drummer who could keep time. You could have avoided all those wasted years. In hindsight, maybe you should have got him "A Simple Metronome With A Big Flashing Light" 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 40 minutes ago, EssexBuccaneer said: The drummer controls *everything*. If he can’t, it’s time to get one who can. Word. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naxos10 Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 Maybe this will do it: The arrows move left and right on the beat. The led's flash. There is a sound beat which can change to a voice that counts (in chinese if he is really struggling). There is a volume control with headphone ouput (which I am sure would connect to the aux input of a 500w amp and cab just for getting the point over). 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 2 hours ago, EssexBuccaneer said: The drummer controls *everything*. If he can’t, it’s time to get one who can. As I say. Only if you let them and continue with the mindset they do. 🤷♂️ The drummer is just another musician in the band. Everyone has to go along with them for everything to speed up. If everyone else sticks to the tempo, the drummer cannot speed up. It's a nonsense that so many musicians don't understand, the drummer doesn't control the band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssexBuccaneer Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 1 hour ago, TimR said: As I say. Only if you let them and continue with the mindset they do. 🤷♂️ The drummer is just another musician in the band. Everyone has to go along with them for everything to speed up. If everyone else sticks to the tempo, the drummer cannot speed up. It's a nonsense that so many musicians don't understand, the drummer doesn't control the band. If the drummer speeds up or slows down, the rest of the band as a rule of thumb will speed up or slow down accordingly. And if you’re rigidly sticking to tempo whilst the rest of the band speeds up around you, who is going to look like the problem to an audience? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 A drummer speeding up or slowing down during the song is not the same issue as setting the tempo for the band at the start (clashing the drumsticks as a 'click', whilst shouting out '1-2-3-4' for a 4/4 song ('1-2-3' for a 3/4 song etc...). Once this tempo has been declared, every player is expected to adhere to this tempo, assuming no tempo change in the composition itself. It doesn't have to be the drummer, as long as there's someone else with a pair of sticks to clash and a loud voice. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dclaassen Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 59 minutes ago, EssexBuccaneer said: If the drummer speeds up or slows down, the rest of the band as a rule of thumb will speed up or slow down accordingly. And if you’re rigidly sticking to tempo whilst the rest of the band speeds up around you, who is going to look like the problem to an audience? 59 minutes ago, EssexBuccaneer said: If the drummer speeds up or slows down, the rest of the band as a rule of thumb will speed up or slow down accordingly. And if you’re rigidly sticking to tempo whilst the rest of the band speeds up around you, who is going to look like the problem to an audience? However, playing a gig where you constantly have to push the tempo to keep the drummer from slowing down makes for a long evening…. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 1 hour ago, EssexBuccaneer said: If the drummer speeds up or slows down, the rest of the band as a rule of thumb will speed up or slow down accordingly. And if you’re rigidly sticking to tempo whilst the rest of the band speeds up around you, who is going to look like the problem to an audience? The drummer can't speed up if the bass player doesn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssexBuccaneer Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 8 minutes ago, TimR said: The drummer can't speed up if the bass player doesn't. I promise you they can. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssexBuccaneer Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 16 minutes ago, TimR said: The drummer can't speed up if the bass player doesn't. Imagine you’re playing, in time to a metronome that’s out of sight behind you. No flashy lights on this one to keep time with(!) Then randomly I sneak in and gradually up the tempo of the metronome, bit by bit. What is going to happen to your playing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 1 hour ago, EssexBuccaneer said: Imagine you’re playing, in time to a metronome that’s out of sight behind you. No flashy lights on this one to keep time with(!) Then randomly I sneak in and gradually up the tempo of the metronome, bit by bit. What is going to happen to your playing? No idea. I played with a drummer for several years who couldn't up the tempo gradually because it doesn't work like that. The drummer is human. I refer you to @dclaassen above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 Ultimately you have a band of musicians who can keep time. Or you don't. The drummer can't alter tempo if the musicans don't let them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssexBuccaneer Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 1 hour ago, TimR said: No idea. I played with a drummer for several years who couldn't up the tempo gradually because it doesn't work like that. The drummer is human. I refer you to @dclaassen above. The drummer is indeed human. I’ve yet to find a human capable of keeping perfect time, 100% of the time. The drummer is basically an unreliable metronome. And the rest of the band follow it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 I saw a band years ago who worked to this stupid idea of the drummer having to follow the rest. The drummer was excellent, she was a rock solid timekeeper and very competent. The guitarists simply ignored what she was doing and randomly speeded up and slowed down, and she had to follow what they were doing. They sounded bloody awful. I've always played in bands where the drummer set the time - a couple of them have been a little erratic but most have been good (and able to start at the right speed). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 49 minutes ago, tauzero said: The drummer was excellent, she was a rock solid timekeeper and very competent. The guitarists simply ignored what she was doing and randomly speeded up and slowed down, I think you're missing the point. The band should be rock solid. If the band is rock solid, the the drummer, being in the band, will also be rock solid. If the drummer is not rock solid and the band is, then the drummer will be dragged into line by the rest of the band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunderwonder Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 Tempo problems can be very much more subtle than "player X is rushing causing everyone to speed up". In anything that has a swing to it there only needs to be a slight disagreement over how much swing is the right amount. If the lead swings in ahead too much for the drummer's liking they may 'catch up' to correct the amount of perceived swing. The bass hears that as "everyone speeding up" and all of sudden the next swung note has done the same and you're off to the races. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dclaassen Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 Then there is metronomic tempo awareness vs internal tempo awareness or “feel”. Members of a large concert band probably all do individual practice with a metronome, but in rehearsal take cues from what they hear and what they see from a director. We do the same thing if we’re not playing to a click track. Take a song like (old guy moment coming) “China Grove”…guitar starts, then bass, then everybody else. Locking in means being aware of the intended tempo of whoever is setting it. Swing is harder and more of a negotiation….calls for lots more awareness and trust between bass and drums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 9 hours ago, TimR said: I played with a drummer for several years who couldn't up the tempo gradually because it doesn't work like that. The drummer is human. Music does work like that, exactly like that. Because as you say, 'The Musician (Drummer) is human'. Accelerando, Rallentando, Ritardando, A Tempo, Rubato? Changes of tempo - Understanding musical terms 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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