Standalone IEM solution recommendations

[ratman]

1 hour ago, Dood said:

 

I have a set in to review right now and it's a game changer!! Absolutely and utterly brilliant. I love th eonbbaord EQ and limiter as well as the extra onboard functions. I set the volume control up so I could quickly switch to hear people talking and then right back to gig level without straining, or having to remove an ear piece.

 

Expect a video very soon! 

It's a cracking product and I wouldn't be without mine on any gig now.. The only thing that ASI need to sort out ASAP is the facility to make silicone moulds here in the UK. I chased up the UK distributor, 3dwaveaudio, and they told me they need a specialised 3d printer do do this that they don't have. If I get ASI in the US to make them it'll cost me $175 plus shipping and import duty too. @Dood - have a word in their ear please

[dave_bass5]

2 hours ago, Dood said:

Expect a video very soon! 

Please don't, I can't afford them 😂

[Dood]

1 hour ago, ratman said:

It's a cracking product and I wouldn't be without mine on any gig now.. The only thing that ASI need to sort out ASAP is the facility to make silicone moulds here in the UK. I chased up the UK distributor, 3dwaveaudio, and they told me they need a specialised 3d printer do do this that they don't have. If I get ASI in the US to make them it'll cost me $175 plus shipping and import duty too. @Dood - have a word in their ear please

 

That's the UK Dist' I'd be given too, hmmm, I find the universals not ideal as my poor lil ears have narrow canals. Full moulds are really the best way for me and if I were to, I'd need to go down that route rather than risk an ear piece fall out mid performance. 

[Al Krow]

1 hour ago, dave_bass5 said:

I didn't say they played bad, just sounded bad. The mix was very unbalanced. I'm sure we have all stood on stage and can gauge how loud we are compared to the rest of the band, and make a pretty good judgment call as to how it sounds out front and make adjustments. We use our ears for this. When you have a full band that are all listening to personal mixes in their ears, they lose a sense of what it sounds like to the audience and can't make these judgement calls. Both bands were very tight but the second had a pretty poor mix.

 

EDIT: to add to this, ive experienced the same thing in my band. When one of our guitarist went over to IEM's, he more or less gave up on settings a volume to match the other in the band. We would  all be telling him we couldn't hear him and had to get him to take them out for a song or two so he could set his amp level a but better. He has now stopped using them for really small gigs like the one I posted last week, so he can hear his amp and gauge if it's too loud/quiet etc. 

 

I kinda get what you're saying. The key point for me was what you said in your post - the band who sounded terrible had "no real out front mix". That sums up the issue in a nutshell!

 

The starting point for any gig has got to be how the band sounds out front to the audience i.e. the FoH mix, right? Sorting out what it's sounding like on stage / via monitors or IEMs is then a separate issue which is obviously also important. 

Do you guys play a song at, or close to, gig volume during sound check with one of you out front listening to what the FoH mix is sounding like? 

 

We've found our FoH sound has been improved a lot by putting as much as we can through the PA - the guitar is finally not stupidly loud and in balance with everything else. We're also getting much less feedback from not having backline. The most common complaint we used to get was "your singer can't be heard over the band", that also now seems sorted, so all in all a very positive journey. In the main line-up for the band 3 of us are using (or planning to use) IEMs and the guitarist who's not keen has a small monitor for his guitar and is standing pretty close to a PA speaker which gives him pretty good monitoring for the rest of the band.

 

[ratman]

1 hour ago, Dood said:

 

That's the UK Dist' I'd be given too, hmmm, I find the universals not ideal as my poor lil ears have narrow canals. Full moulds are really the best way for me and if I were to, I'd need to go down that route rather than risk an ear piece fall out mid performance. 

I liked the ASI universal tips but replacements aren't cheap. Although when I got my ASIs I had to buy them from the US so their tips may be less costly now they're in the UK. I've been using these replacement foam tips https://www.sonicfoam.com/ because I wanted a tighter seal and they do a size slightly larger that the usual foam tips you find on Ebay. Once ASI get their act together and start making moulds here I'll be all over that. I think it might be a big deal breaker for a lot of potential customers.

[Al Krow]

9 minutes ago, ratman said:

I liked the ASI universal tips but replacements aren't cheap. Although when I got my ASIs I had to buy them from the US so their tips may be less costly now they're in the UK. I've been using these replacement foam tips https://www.sonicfoam.com/ because I wanted a tighter seal and they do a size slightly larger that the usual foam tips you find on Ebay. Once ASI get their act together and start making moulds here I'll be all over that. I think it might be a big deal breaker for a lot of potential customers.

 

I've now got a set of Sonicfoam tips for my KZ ZARs based on your recommendation thanks Alex - they seem pretty good value (as are the ZARs).

 

And I'm hoping your enthusiasm for IEMs rubs off on my crew when you're depping for us on Friday! 🙂

 

 

[ratman]

One of my bands is now ampless and all IEMs. My bandmates don't need to worry about FOH as it's my responsibility. (I made a bunch of XLR adaptor cables so we can all have stereo wired mixes which improve our IEM mixes a lot) I start each set without my IEM mix so I can check the main mix and I periodically check it during the gig. It definitely keeps me on my toes because if it sounds sh*t, it's all on me. Like @Al Krow just said, our singer can also now be clearly heard, which didn't used to be the case. I think it's working well for us and our punters like it, private clients & pub management too. It also means I can keep control of our volume too which can be a big bonus in smaller venues & pubs.

Edited May 8 by ratman

[dave_bass5]

2 hours ago, Al Krow said:

 

I kinda get what you're saying. The key point for me was what you said in your post - the band who sounded terrible had "no real out front mix". That sums up the issue in a nutshell!

 

The starting point for any gig has got to be how the band sounds out front to the audience i.e. the FoH mix, right? Sorting out what it's sounding like on stage / via monitors or IEMs is then a separate issue which is obviously also important. 

Do you guys play a song at, or close to, gig volume during sound check with one of you out front listening to what the FoH mix is sounding like? 

 

 

We soundcheck just like any other band, but that's not always an indication of how the levels will be later in to the gig. Sound checks we sound spot on, i make sure fo that, but with two guitarists and a loud-ish drummer its impossible to keep things in check when im standing at the back. The louder the band get, the more of the stage sound bleeds in to the mic and back out the PA. It really needs someone out front to keep it all in check, but i guess it comes down to the disipline of the band members. 

We all go in to the PA but again, almost impossible to mix the PA from the stage as we are standing behind the PA speakers and have amps onstage, so cant get a clear indication of whats what unless i step off, and me, along with the drummer are the only two that cant. 

[Al Krow]

Yeah - that's going to be tricky if you're standing at the back and your bandmates are turning themselves up during the gig and getting louder and louder during the gig  causing things to become unbalanced, rather than them having the discipline to leave their sound levels where they were at sound check. Sounds like a band chat is needed to point out what's happening, and see if you can get them on board? You're pretty good at recording gigs so that should hopefully help in getting the message across? And maybe another option is for you to stand nearer the front?

 

You were sounding pretty good and in balance on that clip you posted recently with your new DJI camera - was that at the start of a gig?

 

Good luck! 

[Mottlefeeder]

On 08/05/2024 at 12:58, Rosie C said:

 

I use a Behringer P2. I run my bass into a Boss TU-3 tuner pedal - the 'output' jack goes to my amp, the 'bypass' jack goes into the P2. I'm not sure what's going on inside but there's a strong enough signal to drive everything. I use it with ACS ambient IEMs which are something like ambient less 17dB.

 

 

I find 'loud' is a problem for me these days, even in a band that busks oudoors through a small PA.

 

I usually use a small mixer to provide my monitor signal, but I recently borrowed an LD systems HP1, and tried it with my active bass plugged straight in via a jack to XLR adaptor. I found that I had to turn the volume control up somewhere beyond 75% to get enough volume in my Shure SE215 buds. At that setting, something in the monitor signal chain was distorting.

 

David

 

Edit - I subsequently found that my bass's battery was on the way out, so that might explain the low volume and distortion.

Edited May 27 by Mottlefeeder
New information

[dave_bass5]

4 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Yeah - that's going to be tricky if you're standing at the back and your bandmates are turning themselves up during the gig and getting louder and louder during the gig  causing things to become unbalanced, rather than them having the discipline to leave their sound levels where they were at sound check. Sounds like a band chat is needed to point out what's happening, and see if you can get them on board? You're pretty good at recording gigs so that should hopefully help in getting the message across? And maybe another option is for you to stand nearer the front?

 

You were sounding pretty good and in balance on that clip you posted recently with your new DJI camera - was that at the start of a gig?

 

Good luck! 

Ah, dont get me started lol. Ive been hammering it home since i joined that the mix is everything. They sort of get it but cant seem to figure out how to do it. I record everything, and was doing full multitracks even at rehearsals, but found just recording the room gave a better idea of whats going on. 

Don't get me  wrong, we dont make a bad sound, but ive thrown in the towel and just take a back seat now. The last few sound checks ive just handed the ipad over to Dawn and told her to get on with it. After all, i cant go out front and play (well, i know how to but, its too much effort) and she can sort them out. I need to be in the mix when we sound check.

No point me standing near the front, ive got my IEM’s in all the time as i don’t use an amp. 

Yes, that video was near the start of the night. I guess the biggest culprit is the drummer. He gets louder and so they get louder. I refuse to turn the PA up and insist that this is the one thing that doesn't change after the sound check, so they need to keep that in mind. That gig was the first that the guitarist closet to the camera wasnt using IEM’s, and it did make a difference as he could tell when he was getting downed out.

Edited May 8 by dave_bass5

[Al Krow]

Oh I feel your frustration here! Our journey hasn't been an overnight success - it's taken us nearly 18 months to get to a consistently balanced FoH sound with this current line up. And even that's a first with any of my bands over the years.

 

Are you the band leader in your crew? Are you the only one who's bothered about the situation? Is getting louder impacting on how the band's being received - I mean it is a common trick to start at a lower volume and build up once audiences have got used to the volume, but obviously within reason!

From what you've said there is a solution, but not one that's going to get a smile from the drummer: ask him to (i) not increase volume during a gig or (ii) use an electronic kit so his volume can be controlled via the desk.

 

PS apologies to the OP for this side-track! Although tbf at least we've established that this isn't really a concern about IEMs - they can and should work really well when used properly!

[dave_bass5]

14 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Oh I feel your frustration here! Our journey hasn't been an overnight success - it's taken us nearly 18 months to get to a consistently balanced FoH sound with this current line up. And even that's a first with any of my bands over the years.

 

Are you the band leader in your crew? Are you the only one who's bothered about the situation? Is getting louder impacting on how the band's being received - I mean it is a common trick to start at a lower volume and build up once audiences have got used to the volume, but obviously within reason!

From what you've said there is a solution, but not one that's going to get a smile from the drummer: ask him to (i) not increase volume during a gig or (ii) use an electronic kit so his volume can be controlled via the desk.

 

PS apologies to the OP for this side-track! Although tbf at least we've established that this isn't really a concern about IEMs - they can and should work really well when used properly!

It could well be im being fussy. We have never had complaints and maybe i just want more from them. I guess i do care about it more than the others, some are old school (get up and have fun, don’t worry about anything etc), but we are getting there. I feel ive done all i can and now its up to them, but in fairness i feel it might be more a ‘me thing’. Ive already said in another thread how my bas player kept turning his bass down and then forgetting got turn it back up during gigs. Thats been fixed at least.

When i tend to do is to show them the multitrack wave forms and point out how quiet they are on some songs, and loud on others. I think thats getting through to them, but then they forget at gigs sometimes.

 

And yes, apologies for the de rail. 

[Jolltax]

Could any users of the Zoom H4 give a few hints on how they have theirs set up, the instructions aren't the best.  I'm trying to to get stereo from the built in mikes and mix it with a mono input from my bass. So far I have only managed to get stereo mikes with bass in one ear, so need to switch the bass input to mono is my guess ...

 

I'm sure I'll get there in the end anyway but any hints appreciated!

 

J

[pete.young]

I put mine into 4ch mode and use it as a 4-channel mixer.

[Dood]

On 09/05/2024 at 08:09, Jolltax said:

Could any users of the Zoom H4 give a few hints on how they have theirs set up, the instructions aren't the best.  I'm trying to to get stereo from the built in mikes and mix it with a mono input from my bass. So far I have only managed to get stereo mikes with bass in one ear, so need to switch the bass input to mono is my guess ...

 

I'm sure I'll get there in the end anyway but any hints appreciated!

 

J

 

I forget how I used to do mine, but I think that yes, you'd either need to set the input for your bass to mono, or, worse case, buy an adaptor and send the mono signal in to a left and a right input at the same time if the previous way isnt an option - or, instead of an adaptor take the left and right inputs from a pedal or preamp. 

[Dood]

Here's my original video about using Zoom recorders for ambient mixes.

 

I'm building a solution (when I get round to it) that could be an interesting tool. The soldering iron needs to come out!

 

 

[Al Krow]

@Dood thanks for that video! Intrigued that the Zoom H2N doesn't distort even at loud volumes!

 

Do you need to adjust the input levels manually to achieve this or does it do so automatically? I'm guessing the former otherwise you would get variable volume recording?

 

I guess the fly in the ointment is that this set up isn't going to add too much if the band have gone for a silent stage approach and are putting as much as possible through the PA with no backline.

Edited May 10 by Al Krow

[Kirky]

I've just put my Zoom H5 in the for sale section in case anyone's thinking of giving this a try 

Edited May 10 by Kirky

[EBS_freak]

39 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

@Dood thanks for that video! Intrigued that the Zoom H2N doesn't distort even at loud volumes!

 

Do you need to adjust the input levels manually to achieve this or does it do so automatically? I'm guessing the former otherwise you would get variable volume recording?

 

I guess the fly in the ointment is that this set up isn't going to add too much if the band have gone for a silent stage approach and are putting as much as possible through the PA with no backline.

Its the sound of the room and audience you are going to be getting. Assuming that you want to hear your screaming fans! The multiple input Zooms are the one, feed from the mics... plus freed from your PA auxes.

[dave_bass5]

48 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

@Dood thanks for that video! Intrigued that the Zoom H2N doesn't distort even at loud volumes!

 

Do you need to adjust the input levels manually to achieve this or does it do so automatically? I'm guessing the former otherwise you would get variable volume recording?

 

I guess the fly in the ointment is that this set up isn't going to add too much if the band have gone for a silent stage approach and are putting as much as possible through the PA with no backline.

I love the newer 32 bit float version of these H Recorders. Just turn them on and hit record. No messing about with levels. In fact there is no input gain on them, although there is a mixer. Even has outputs a test tone so you can set the level on whatever it’s going in to. 
I do wish it had an amp Sim like the H4pro though. 
The H4 pro i had was really nice, but i noticed the waveforms were clipped when the input level was set below 2 on the input gain. 
 

Edited May 10 by dave_bass5

[Dood]

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

@Dood thanks for that video! Intrigued that the Zoom H2N doesn't distort even at loud volumes!

 

Do you need to adjust the input levels manually to achieve this or does it do so automatically? I'm guessing the former otherwise you would get variable volume recording?

 

I guess the fly in the ointment is that this set up isn't going to add too much if the band have gone for a silent stage approach and are putting as much as possible through the PA with no backline.

 

In the scenarios that I had used it in up to the point of recordingt the video, I was pleased that it didn't seem to hit it's maximum microphone SPL. There were times, in very loud environments certain settings on that particular did eventually clip and tehrefore I'd suggest going for the H4 models - the non-32 bit version for example having a theoretical maximum microphone SPL of 140dB. 

 

Always set the levels manually, I am not a fan of autogain doing it's thing by itself as sometimes doesn't capture loud transients and.. well, that hurts through sensitive IEMs

 

As @EBS_freak points out, there are many different reasons ambient monitoring may be needed. Even on a 'silent stage' just hearing your band mate calling the next song off mic, or hearing the audience is a useful. I like using the external device when a band doesn't mic up a whole kit (because the venue doesnt need it); the ambient monitor is a nice way to blend acoustic drums back in to an 'ampless stage' earphone mix. I can think of other scenarios, but you get the idea. 

I'm moving to either the Sensaphonics system or something similar with the mics on the IEMs themselves, as I love that I can leave everything on, walk away from the stage and use the pack and IEMs as active hearing protection when the DJ starts banging out the "classics" at 1 billion decibels ha ha!

[ratman]

18 minutes ago, Dood said:

 

I'm moving to either the Sensaphonics system or something similar with the mics on the IEMs themselves, as I love that I can leave everything on, walk away from the stage and use the pack and IEMs as active hearing protection when the DJ starts banging out the "classics" at 1 billion decibels ha ha!

That's kind of how I use my ASIs. Either mics fully off, just hearing aux mix. Or attenuated to taste like ear plugs, sometimes with bass signal from my board mixed in via a Behringer P2 belt pack. Either way, I usually flip the ASI volume up to 0db between songs to catch any band chat. And I also keep them in until I leave the venue if there's an in house PA running.

Edited May 10 by ratman

[Dood]

19 hours ago, dave_bass5 said:

I love the newer 32 bit float version of these H Recorders. Just turn them on and hit record. No messing about with levels. In fact there is no input gain on them, although there is a mixer. Even has outputs a test tone so you can set the level on whatever it’s going in to. 
I do wish it had an amp Sim like the H4pro though. 
The H4 pro i had was really nice, but i noticed the waveforms were clipped when the input level was set below 2 on the input gain. 
 

I’d love to know if they have managed to make the device noise quieter. The noise floor on the outputs was distractingly high on the H1n. Usually down to self noise produced by cheap electret mics or op amps. What do you think? Quiet?

[dave_bass5]

50 minutes ago, Dood said:

I’d love to know if they have managed to make the device noise quieter. The noise floor on the outputs was distractingly high on the H1n. Usually down to self noise produced by cheap electret mics or op amps. What do you think? Quiet?

What with amp noise etc in the room its difficult to hear any device generated noise through my IEM’s when im using it as an ambient source. This normally gets recorded in Logic at gigs at 32bit float, but it’s coming through my XR18 first. So much other noise going on id never hear it. It’s certainly not something id notice for my use. 

The H4e doesnt have a dedicated line out, so it is using the headphone out, but you can fix the output level to whatever you want, send a test tone to the mixer etc and gain stage it so its giving a decently strong signal. When using it at gigs i have it about a foot from the Snare and i don’t hear any distortion, although the HH can be a bit brittle if hit too hard. Although it’s got a huge dynamic range the output is controlled so nothing jumps out, but then then its all pretty consistent in this scenario.