A 3d printed headless bass ...

[rwillett]

@JohnH89

 

You are my hero and role model. I was hoping this world wide IT outage would have killed the systems I work on, but no such luck. As I run my own business, if I don;t work, I don't get paid I have had a couple of meetings cancelled so am having a quick go at this setup.

 

Anyway, I've put the bass back together. I've put a 2mm level shim under the neck and under the bridge. The pickups were close to the strings in their lowest position so, I had no ability to change the height, apart from making them even closer. Now I have a little bit of adjustment by rasing the bridge and neck by the same amount. Currently the strings are 5.5mm above the pickups.

 

I've tuned it as best I can to get some tension on the neck, but since the strings are lying across the frets at the moment, this is a little tricky

 

There is 1mm at the twelfth fret and enormous amounrs of fret buzz.

 

I will also now look through our PM's to see what you suggested last time.

 

Thanks

Rob

[tauzero]

Looking at those pickup sledges, I wondered how feasible it would be to have a quick clamp lever on them so they could be moved about in a gig (like the Westone Rail and Gibson Grabber). That might be a bit gimmicky though.

[rwillett]

I did think about some mechansim to easily move it around, but came to the conclusion that since nobody else apepared to have done this other than Westone, I wasn't aware of the Gibson Grabber (until now).

 

Just had a look at one here https://badlandsguitars.co.uk/products/gibson-grabber-bass-1975-all-original

 

and can see what you mean. I'm not sure how to make that work for a quick release mechanism. You'd have to have a lever somewhere near the strings and that would interfere with playing, though probably not with my playing. Variously described as "crap" and "like a chimpanzee with mallets" by my kids, or that old one "Well you certainly play with enthusiasm" from my other half.  A better idea (or a madder idea, take your pick), would be a simple NEMA stepper motor and two threaded rods that replace the CF rods. The stepper motor could easily move a pickup backwards and forwards. If you had two stepper motors, one could drive one rod and one pickup, and the other stepper motor the other pickup,

 

Technically relatively simple, though you'd probably need:

 

1. A decent power source to drive the motors, Batteries rather than mains.

2. Somewhere to actually site the motors in the body of the guitar. There's only two places they can go, the bridge or next to the neck.

3. Electrical noise might be an issue.

4. Some means of controlling it, Bluetooth would be obvious answer.

5, Might need an opposing smooth rod for stability.

 

Basically no different to a 3d printer Z axis mechansim.

 

Rob

Edited July 19 by rwillett

[JohnH89]

Drop the shim to 1mm and you may be in the ballpark . If not then an angled shim will be the way forward . A small amount of angle on the shim will make a big difference to the action . It may take a bit of working out as the normal way is to set up the action and then adjust the pickups but it can be done . If the thinner shim is not enough, but an action of 2mm at fret 12 should be playable , try a slice of business card under the headstock end of the neck pocket . If it works , and it should , either leave it or print an angled shim .

[tauzero]

On shim thickness:

 

 

[Hellzero]

6 hours ago, rwillett said:

I did think about some mechansim to easily move it around, but came to the conclusion that since nobody else apepared to have done this other than Westone, I wasn't aware of the Gibson Grabber (until now).

And also the very first Alembic 72-01, so from 1972, owned by Jack Casady after his heavily modified by Alembic Guild Starfire bass...

 

 

Quote from the Alembic website: "The very first Alembic bass, number 72-01, was made for Jack Casady, then of the Jefferson Airplane. In 1972 the bass cost more than four thousand dollars. It sounded and resembled nothing that came before it and was to be the bass that has influenced and shaped bass design ever since."

[JohnH89]

With regards to all the above posters , and Rob himself , I would not go too far down the route of adjustable pickup placement . Whilst it is wonderful from an engineering point of view , it is yet another variable to deal with . I can honestly say that at no point in my life , ever , have I thought that if only my bridge pickup was 5/16 of an inch closer to the the bridge , my tone would be perfect . Stick with the original plan . Is it possible to make a 3d printed bass that is playable ? And also beautiful , sounds good and is easy to play . 👍

[rwillett]

I got the neck and bridge more or less sorted, a slight shim on the neck to push it up and that's pretty close. I didn't spend too much time as I know I had to take it all to pieces to get the the aluminium backbone properly sorted out.

 

So, here's the latest picture of the headless bass, somewhat basic, somewhat smaller. Some of the holes are tapped, some are through, some are countersunk. Nightmare to drill

 

 

 

 

I've marked out the bits to cut and smooth out, I remember Mr Black, my woodwork teacher, telling me to mark off the bits I don't want. I just have been 12 years old.  Used a Sharpie for that so its nice and clear. I'm unsure if the finger grinder will 'cut' so might have to drill first, then hacksaw and then use the finger grinder to smooth it all out OR it might just cut through things I have some sacrificial aluminium to check.

 

I'll also use the older pieces of printed frame as a guide for the curves on the backbone.

 

Am also now printing the final pieces at the right resolution with the correct filament. So this is at 0.1mm and is the largest piece by far. So 11 hours solid on the Mk4, which is 2.5x quicker than the Mk3 (26 hours!)

 

Dog needs a walk first though.

Rob

Edited December 11 by rwillett

[JohnH89]

Some of my best ideas have come when walking the dogs . New dog arrived an hour ago from greyhound rescue so all 3 will need a walk this afternoon .

[rwillett]

Most of my ideas come in the shower, I use the shower screen to draw on as I don't have a whiteboard there (strangely enough) or when walking the dog.

 

I use my morning walks to plan my day, which mostly consists of clearing up other peoples problems.

 

My evening walks tend to have Apple pods in and something loud, such as Motorhead, to help clear my head after spending the day clearing up other peoples problems.

 

The nice thing about walking the dog is that he genuinely has zero interest in my day, only about me throwing a stick for him.

 

Well done on the Greyhound rescue, we've rescued a few cats (who still hate me) and we tried to find a rescue dog, as apparently most of the NW England tried to do as well, and there wasn't a dog to be rescued anywhere within an hours drive. The little village I live in has a lot of dogs, most places including restaurants allow dogs in otherwise they'd struggle with business as everybody has dogs, Border Collies (both working and pets) are common, Labs are everywhere, poodles crossed with anything and everything, we saw a Bernaise/Poodle cross last week and there's a Bernaise / Border Collie cross in Settle (that was a genuine accident). Lovely dog, about the size of a small hippo, with the mind of a collie. It bounces up and down like a collie as well. Terrifying late at night when I first saw it, Rocco, my Border collie/poodle cross ran away and hid

 

Rob

[tauzero]

12 hours ago, rwillett said:

Well done on the Greyhound rescue, we've rescued a few cats (who still hate me) and we tried to find a rescue dog, as apparently most of the NW England tried to do as well, and there wasn't a dog to be rescued anywhere within an hours drive. The little village I live in has a lot of dogs, most places including restaurants allow dogs in otherwise they'd struggle with business as everybody has dogs, Border Collies (both working and pets) are common, Labs are everywhere, poodles crossed with anything and everything, we saw a Bernaise/Poodle cross last week and there's a Bernaise / Border Collie cross in Settle (that was a genuine accident). Lovely dog, about the size of a small hippo, with the mind of a collie. It bounces up and down like a collie as well. Terrifying late at night when I first saw it, Rocco, my Border collie/poodle cross ran away and hid

 

If you'd been somewhere in the Midlands I could have put you in touch with our guitarist, who helps out with dog rescues.

 

Still, back to the bass. When you say a finger grinder, do you mean a power file, like

 

 

as they will remove aluminium but not very quickly. I've used mine to square up holes in diecast boxes like below, but needed a drill and a dremel clone of much cheapness to make the initial hole.

 

[rwillett]

I've managed to get first fit done on the parts. This checks that cables sit properly, that potentiometers fit, that the bridge and neck are OK.

 

This check found the earth cable from the bridge to an earth point was awkward so I've resigned the bridge and one of the pillars that hold the pickups so the cable run is different. Thats the hole in the blue support. These are being reprinted now but its a few hours away.

 

The rest seems OK, though the control knobs are a little too close together so I may drop the output down so that the knobs are more widely spaced. Nothing is actually wired up.

 

The pickup looks like a Dickensian street urchin has wiped his snotty fingers on the pickguard so I will look at how to keep that clean and better looking.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The back of the guitar is very clean with only the neck screws now. Everything else is hidden away. This was one of thh goals of the redesign.

 

I may end up putting a gloss lacquer on this to make it shine. Might also call it "Hotblack"

 

Sadly thats it for a week or so as I'm away on holiday.  I wanted to have it finished but not enough time

 

Rob

Edited December 11 by rwillett

[JohnH89]

Great work as always Rob . I'll be waiting for the next installment . 

[rwillett]

I may just about get the bridge back together tonight. Might be late though. I'd love to get some strings back on as it looks wrong without them. 

[SpondonBassed]

51 minutes ago, rwillett said:

I may just about get the bridge back together tonight. Might be late though. I'd love to get some strings back on as it looks wrong without them. 

 

It would be good to see how well it keeps string tension while you are away...?

 

It's looking very good.

Edited July 25 by SpondonBassed

[rwillett]

I'm really pleased with the quality of the printing. The joints on the top and bottom are very tight now. Due to the way 3d printers do curves, the vertical joints aren't quite as good but I'm now getting picky. 

 

Theres actually more strength in this bass than the last one, so I'm not expecting it to be worse keeping the tension.  Might be wrong though. Néed to pack and if I have time I'll string it up. 

[Richard R]

Enjoy your holiday, and step away from any screens. It does wonders for your brain

 

See you when you get back!

 

 

 

[rwillett]

I managed to get the bass strung at 23:59 last night (still haven't packed). It looks a lot better with strings on, a hell of a lot better. Of course being black makes small features disappear in pictures, but I'm pretty happy.

 

The neck is almost spot on. The action is a bit too low, so around 1.5mm on the 12th fret, but I simply put the headless bridge as low as they could go to get the strings on. It stayed in tune overnight, which is what I expected. A large slab of aluminium has that effect.

 

Weight is 3.9Kg, which is just under the 4Kg I was aiming for, the last one was 4.3Kg, the strings appear to be made of lead and the knobs are heavy and chromed, there is no neck dive (no surprise there). So I suspect I can take off another 100g quite easily.

 

It plays well, I'd prefer a lot thinner strings which will come once I finish it off, but I had an acoustic toodle up and down the neck and there's no neck buzz. Recommendations for decent thing strings welcomed.

 

The only area of concern is the pickguard. It's basically the lid to a hollow box where the pickups sit and if you tap it, it booms. Need to think about that.

 

 

Neck steps are soldering all the controls up, I'll probably reprint the control panel to move the output socket further down so the knobs can be a bit wider. Need to put strap buttons in, its all prepared but just need to do it.

 

I'll try and get better pics, as the bass is black with tiny glitter like elements. It's not glam rock glitterly, but quite neat and I hate bling.

Rob

Edited July 26 by rwillett

[SamIAm]

What a beauty! (I mean the bass ofc lol)

Sam x

[JohnH89]

Looking good mate . What strings are you after ? I can recommend LaBella LTFs or TI Jazz flats as being easy to play . If you want roundwounds then someone else will be able to help you . If you love thin strings how about tuned ADGC tenor tuning . Its a lot of fun but I miss the low E . It all depends on what you intend playing with it . Regarding pickguard , can it be printed with strengthening struts length ways to brace it a bit . 

[rwillett]

@JohnH89 

 

Helpful advice as always.  I'm just after thinner strings as its just preference. I come from playing (very, very badly) guitars and have always preferred thinner strings. I know that some people love heavier duty strings, but they don't appeal to me. These are cheapies from Amazon and I suspect are recycled tug boat cables.

 

Odd tunings are probably a bit too far for me at the moment. I know my limits.

 

I'm thinking about the pickguard and one of the options is to brace it horizontally and vertically. The vertical brace is an issue though as it requires the strings to come off. I have some ideas here and will ponder whilst taking the dog for a walk. I can also put some sound deadening on the pickguard. It only takes 45 mins to print a new pickguard, so it's no big deal to experiment with ideas and suggestions.

 

Thanks

Rob

[tauzero]

I like light strings and use Elites 40-100 or 40-125, but Warwick's Red Label are also pretty good and cheap.

[rwillett]

This weekends job was to wire up the control panel.

 

I carefully thought about what to do and decided to be a little adventurous and do a slightly more complex wiring job and have a push pull knob to switch the pickups from series to parallel. The wiorking diagrams look easy enough, so ordered some decent CTS pots, fabric covered wire, a high quality and expensive CTS 250K push pull pot and 300 capacitors as it wasn't much more expensive than ordering 2-3. So if anybody needs any capacitors, just ask.

 

First problem was the overall depth of the push/pull switch. It was a mm or so too deep, but some careful rejigging of positions, I managed to get it to fit (for some defn of fit).

 

However, the big problem is the knobs I have are all around 19mm tall, and the CTS switch really pushes the knobs high. I can't push the shaft any lower as that pushs the base of of the knob too low. Its a compromise that currently sees me eyeing up the Dremel to carve a mm or so out of the plastic CTS casing.

 

Any suggestions as to where I can get taller knobs, 22mm or higher welcomed.

 

Thanks

Rob

[Andre_Passini]

Amazing Rob!

[SamIAm]

21 hours ago, rwillett said:

Any suggestions as to where I can get taller knobs, 22mm or higher welcomed.

I’ve 3D printed knobs in the past with good results. I imagine you and your sexy gear would get excellent results.

Sam x