Tips on transcribing

[waynepunkdude]

I have never transcribed before, but I have an audition for one of my favorite bands next week and they want me to learn 3 of there songs and I can't seem to work them out.

Any tips?

[xilddx]

[quote name='waynepunkdude' post='490816' date='May 17 2009, 08:15 PM']I have never transcribed before, but I have an audition for one of my favorite bands next week and they want me to learn 3 of there songs and I can't seem to work them out.

Any tips?[/quote]

If you can't work them out by ear, you have zero chance of transcribing them, no?

Sounds like a challenge. Can you read music? Are their songs difficult? Maybe you could post them on BC and one of us could work out for you the parts you're having trouble with.

I'm good at learning by ear, if you want to PM the songs to me and tell me which parts you are having trouble with I might be able to help you out.

When's the audition, mate?

[lowdown]

If you are having trouble hearing things...
Slowdowner is good...
Trial version here. [url="http://www.ronimusic.com/"]http://www.ronimusic.com/[/url]
Although i think there is some free stuff about.


Garry

[Eight]

Have you got some software like Transcribe! to slow down the audio, frequency analysis and EQ?

Beyond that, from the few bass transcriptions I've done, I generally have to start by figuring out the chords before I can really get my head around the bass notes. Sometimes I even have to transcribe the vocal melody to figure out the chords. But then I suck.

[waynepunkdude]

[quote name='silddx' post='490829' date='May 17 2009, 08:28 PM']If you can't work them out by ear, you have zero chance of transcribing them, no?

Sounds like a challenge. Can you read music? Are their songs difficult? Maybe you could post them on BC and one of us could work out for you the parts you're having trouble with.

I'm good at learning by ear, if you want to PM the songs to me and tell me which parts you are having trouble with I might be able to help you out.

When's the audition, mate?[/quote]


I can't read music, the songs are quite difficult. Their old bassist is a friend of mine and he is very very good.

I haven't tried transcribing them yet as I just got the audition and I have to be up for work at 2.30AM so I'm going to bed now.

The audition is next Sunday.

[xilddx]

Good, you have some time then.

Do you have to replicate the bass lines exactly? How difficult are we talking? Sikth? Rush? Lonnie Donegan?

[Oscar South]

Getting good at transcription is all about attention to detail, don't half arse it regardless of how tedious it is.

You pick it up a LOT faster than you'd expect, over the last few weeks I've been transcribing 15 or so fusion tunes for a band which are a lot harder than anything I've done before and at the start I thought that some of it was waaaayyy beyond my ability, this weekend I finished the last one. It always seems a lot harder when you listen to it prospectively than when you actually sit down with it; don't get discouraged.

Also, a decent knowledge of theory helps, because it gives you a good idea of what *probably* comes next, its not essential though and you'll pick up a lot of 'theory without the terminology' from transcription itself.

[lowdown]

I Had to do some Brass parts from a couple of Earth Wind & Fire tunes last week,
I just slowed the audio down, it made it a lot easier and quicker,
i could get right in amongst the harmonies.


Garry

[OutToPlayJazz]

Same as playing, the more you do it, the easier it gets. I can usually do a take-down of a typical bassline in about 5 mins. The thing is to play along with the track a couple of times, then write the chord progression down as you listen to it a time or two after.

[crez5150]

[quote name='OutToPlayJazz' post='490947' date='May 17 2009, 10:27 PM']Same as playing, the more you do it, the easier it gets. I can usually do a take-down of a typical bassline in about 5 mins. The thing is to play along with the track a couple of times, then write the chord progression down as you listen to it a time or two after.[/quote]

+1 excellent advice Rich!

[Faithless]

And, when using some sort of slow-downer, don't forget to hook-up the record one octave - then, all you can actually hear is the bass, and it's much clearer

I don't actually transcribe tunes in normal 'setting', always have to hook it up by an octave, but, also, don't understand, how can it be unpopular among bassists...

Faith

[Eight]

[quote name='Faithless' post='490970' date='May 17 2009, 09:55 PM']And, when using some sort of slow-downer, don't forget to hook-up the record one octave - then, all you can actually hear is the bass, and it's much clearer [/quote]
That's a new one on me.

You slow-down the audio (assuming you're using a tool that slows down without affecting pitch) and then raise everything by an octave? And this let's you hear the bass better? Going to have to give this a whirl.

[mcgraham]

+1 to Rich's advice.

Little known fact that was revealed to me recently, is that quicktime (even the free version) has great transcription features. Open up a song in QT. Go to 'Window-->AV Controls' and you have the option of changing pitch and/or playback speed. No cost involved!

However, Janek Gwizdala advocates not slowing songs down for learning them. Whilst I think this is a goal to work towards, it can be very disheartening at the beginning, and some pieces are genuinely too quick and/or too muddy to do work out without some technological help.

Good luck anyway!

Mark

[Faithless]

[quote name='Eight' post='491164' date='May 18 2009, 12:23 PM']That's a new one on me.

You slow-down the audio (assuming you're using a tool that slows down without affecting pitch) and then raise everything by an octave? And this let's you hear the bass better? Going to have to give this a whirl.[/quote]


Yup, matey, that's exactly what I mean

In other words, octave is 12 semitones up, if I'm correct (if you don't have any other way than just to hook it up by adjusting semitones..)


Have fun, mate!
Faith

[Eight]

[quote name='Faithless' post='491387' date='May 18 2009, 02:23 PM']Yup, matey, that's exactly what I mean [/quote]
Wow. That could be one of the most useful posts I've ever read... if it works.

[Eight]

On a loosely related note: anyone got any genius suggestions of how I can do some transcriptions at work? i.e no bass/instruments and without installing any software. Unfortunately I'm not so talented I can do it like a classical composer and just write the stuff straight on to notation paper after one listen on the iPod.

All my projects have stalled and I'm stupidly bored right now.

[Oscar South]

[quote name='Eight' post='498692' date='May 27 2009, 12:59 PM']On a loosely related note: anyone got any genius suggestions of how I can do some transcriptions at work? i.e no bass/instruments and without installing any software. Unfortunately I'm not so talented I can do it like a classical composer and just write the stuff straight on to notation paper after one listen on the iPod.

All my projects have stalled and I'm stupidly bored right now.[/quote]

Just write out the structures, make notes of any significant variations and meter changes, write out the harmonic rhythms, make vocal cues etc.

I always find that if you just sit down and start working out notes it can be time consuming and tedious, if you take the song apart structurally first then you're usually done in a quarter the time when you actually start working out specific notes/chords.

[mcgraham]

[quote]On a loosely related note: anyone got any genius suggestions of how I can do some transcriptions at work? i.e no bass/instruments and without installing any software. Unfortunately I'm not so talented I can do it like a classical composer and just write the stuff straight on to notation paper after one listen on the iPod.[/quote]

Umm, do just that? Listen to the song and slowly figure them out one by one. Chord structures of songs are a good start, then progressively more complicated ones. Try singing melodies and visualising the notes/intervals and fingering in your head (or even on staff paper). Again, start simple and work on to harder stuff. Nothing that a bit of hard graft can't accomplish!

Mark

[Eight]

[quote name='Oscar South' post='499267' date='May 27 2009, 08:31 PM']I always find that if you just sit down and start working out notes it can be time consuming and tedious, if you take the song apart structurally first then you're usually done in a quarter the time when you actually start working out specific notes/chords.[/quote]
Yeah that's a good idea actually. I do seem to "waste" a lot of time when transcribing on activities which don't involve figuring out sounds and are more down to the structure. It would also save me a bucket load of time when it comes to laying the thing out in software.
[quote name='mcgraham' post='499349' date='May 27 2009, 09:57 PM']Umm, do just that? Listen to the song and slowly figure them out one by one. Chord structures of songs are a good start, then progressively more complicated ones. Try singing melodies and visualising the notes/intervals and fingering in your head (or even on staff paper). Again, start simple and work on to harder stuff. Nothing that a bit of hard graft can't accomplish![/quote]
Hmm... you could be on to something. I suppose I've never really tried in the sense of putting effort in; whilst all the other stuff I've been doing (theory, ear training etc.) means I should at least have some of the basic tools for the job (or be on my way to getting them). I'll give it a whirl. The benefits to me would be huge if I managed it (way beyond just something to fill in time whilst at work).

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the suggestions from both of you here.

[doctor_of_the_bass]

Some very good advice here!

The way I tend to go about things (technique that I use when teaching) is very simple. All you need is a pen, bit of paper and a CD with said tunes!

1. Listen to the track. Try and make a simple judgement as to the overall structure ie. intro, chorus, verse, bridge, mid eight etc etc. Write it down at the top of the paper.

2. Go back, listen to each `section' ie intro, verse etc and physically write out the beats per bar for each section. This will give you a map which saves a lot of time.

3. Then, sit down with the CD etc and listen to each section, try to listen to the main `root notes' and try to apply these to the `beats' you've already written out for the map. Write them down on the map. Do this for each `section' and you should then have a skeleton `guide' part.

4. Once you've done this, go back and add the `flesh' to the basic parts by working out fills/phrases by repeated listening to the track. Eventually, you'll have an overall transcription - tab it out if need be.

This is quite a long winded way of doing things but I find it helps students visualise the piece and of course, in most songs, once you've worked out verse 1, chorus 1 etc, the rest are (not always!) usually repeats! Like Rich, I can nail a part virtually straight away (within reason!) only through experience of doing it over 27 years - your brain (not ears!!!) learns and adds to its `knowledgebase' every time you pick up your bass to do this stuff.

Cheers!

Nick

[Dread Bass]

One thing i have realised about working out bass lines is it is not magic the notes are there and its just a case of finding the right ones.

Usually i start with the first note of a riff or bar and i play all the notes till i find what i think it is. Then for the next note i work through scales or chromatically to find the right interval and continue this way. Once ive got the riff i can then usually tell if its in the right key so i move it around and try different fingerings. It will take a while but i have found the more you do it the better you get and it really helps your playing.

This may be a slow way but it works well for me especially trying different intervals till i find which it is. I hope this answer dosnt sound patronising its just the way i do it.

Good luck mate and if i/we can help let us know.

[leschirons]

[quote name='metaltime' post='499477' date='May 27 2009, 11:34 PM']One thing i have realised about working out bass lines is it is not magic the notes are there and its just a case of finding the right ones.

Usually i start with the first note of a riff or bar and i play all the notes till i find what i think it is. Then for the next note i work through scales or chromatically to find the right interval and continue this way. Once ive got the riff i can then usually tell if its in the right key so i move it around and try different fingerings. It will take a while but i have found the more you do it the better you get and it really helps your playing.

This may be a slow way but it works well for me especially trying different intervals till i find which it is. I hope this answer dosnt sound patronising its just the way i do it.

Good luck mate and if i/we can help let us know.[/quote]

Doesn't sound patronising at all. I think you've hit the nail on the head by sort of pointing out that it works for you. Reading all the other replies, it becomes obvious the everyone has their own slant on transcribing. I don't think any particular method is any better than any other. Some may advance your theory a bit more than others but the all important thing is to nail the bassline ain't it?

[rslaing]

[quote name='metaltime' post='499477' date='May 27 2009, 11:34 PM']One thing i have realised about working out bass lines is it is not magic the notes are there and its just a case of finding the right ones.

Usually i start with the first note of a riff or bar and i play all the notes till i find what i think it is. Then for the next note i work through scales or chromatically to find the right interval and continue this way. Once ive got the riff i can then usually tell if its in the right key so i move it around and try different fingerings. It will take a while but i have found the more you do it the better you get and it really helps your playing.

This may be a slow way but it works well for me especially trying different intervals till i find which it is. I hope this answer dosnt sound patronising its just the way i do it.

Good luck mate and if i/we can help let us know.[/quote]

A great way to develop your ear.............