The final devaluation of music ? Learn about Suno,Udio and exactly what A.I. is up to - scary stuff.........

[TimR]

All music is copying. When you write music you're just deciding what elements you're copying.

 

AI is the same except it doesn't have experience of the real world, doesn't understand the emotional context. Until AI has emotion, all it will be is a model working off an algorithm.

 

Humans are losing the emotional context of life as well, too much written communication and not enough face to face.

 

Maybe AI music will appeal to future generations who don't know what it is like to go outside and actually talk to people.

[Bassfinger]

On 10/05/2024 at 12:37, BigRedX said:

Given that it appears to be more click-bait from Rick Beato I'm tempted not to watch it. IMO he comes across as a sad old man railing against modern technology when that boat has very much sailed, producing videos that deliberately mis-use and mis-represent the technology he's against in order to pander to his core audience of equally sad old men. Either that or he really is very stupid and hasn't understood how the technology should be used creatively.

 

 

 

I didn't realise you were a fan!

[EMG456]

On 10/05/2024 at 15:37, MacDaddy said:

There's much scaremongering about AI at the moment. AI is actually a misnomer as there's no intelligence involved. It's computer programs giving responses on the basis of probabilities.

AI at the moment is not creative, as it can not surpass it's data set and do anything original. For example if you programmed the relevant AI with The Beatles Red Album, it would not be able to come up with anything from The Blue Album. 

This.

I'm surprised (shouldn't be, right enough) that few people seem to have realised this so far.

All the large language models can do is plagiarise the past - they literally are incapable of original thought. We're being gaslit by the media and AI companies to be enthused by something that can only give us back a result that a human has previously created.

[acidbass]

On 10/05/2024 at 12:37, BigRedX said:

Given that it appears to be more click-bait from Rick Beato I'm tempted not to watch it. IMO he comes across as a sad old man railing against modern technology when that boat has very much sailed, producing videos that deliberately mis-use and mis-represent the technology he's against in order to pander to his core audience of equally sad old men. Either that or he really is very stupid and hasn't understood how the technology should be used creatively.

Absolutely agree 1000% with this assessment of Rick Beato.  A true dinosaur.

[Stub Mandrel]

One thing AI can do is write music that humans can't play. This certainly already applies to sequencers DAWS already, but is AI more likely to come up with, say, shred guitar solos that are physically impossible even with an 8 or 10-string guitar.

 

Scarier still, is AI going to be able to come up with melodically satisfying shred guitar solos that are actually listenable?

[Paolo85]

6 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

One thing AI can do is write music that humans can't play. This certainly already applies to sequencers DAWS already, but is AI more likely to come up with, say, shred guitar solos that are physically impossible even with an 8 or 10-string guitar.

 

Scarier still, is AI going to be able to come up with melodically satisfying shred guitar solos that are actually listenable?

Many years ago I was reading a book by some economists on AI ("prediction machines", Agrwal, Gans, Goldfarb).

The context and applications they were discussing were completely different, but the argument they were making I believe may apply to music.

Their idea was that AI should not be seen as something that does something on its own, but something that is managed by a human, which will then make the fundamental act of deciding whether the outcome of AI is satisfying, and to what extent.

I think it is obvious that AI will in certain circumstances generate good solos. The opposite would be almost impossible for the law of big numbers and as allegedly millions of monkeys typing on laptops for years would eventually write a Shakespeare play - or whatever.

But then there needs to be a human that hears the AI solo and go "yes, this is really something that should be packaged and communicated to others". This human can be an artist, or somebody that makes music for more pedestrian uses such as jingles or Taylor Swift albums, and the choices/outcomes would be different.

In that sense, I am skeptical about songs entirely made by AI in one go having legs. I see more possibilities for songs that combine different parts made by AI - or maybe AI tools that make edits easy.

But then, when we get to the point of replacing musicians (as in people who play an instrument), it is more complex. For some purposes this will happen. But Adam Neely in his video made a very strong argument: would you watch a football match played by AI?

Would you go to an AI concert? If you go to a concert, are you there to hear sounds (music, which AI may be able to do) or to watch fellow humans as they generate the sounds?

 

 

[Stub Mandrel]

On 21/05/2024 at 17:38, Paolo85 said:

Would you go to an AI concert? If you go to a concert, are you there to hear sounds (music, which AI may be able to do) or to watch fellow humans as they generate the sounds?

 

Arguably an AI concert would sit somewhere between a live gig and a DJ.

 

To argue against myselfit's the human dj who provides the connection to the audience (at least a good one does).

 

It's worth bearing in mind that many radio stations use AI generated playlists and don't even have djs.

[Stub Mandrel]

ChatGPT.

 

Sure! Here's a suggested setlist for a Wales-based classic rock band, with enough songs for two 45-minute sets plus encores:

 

Set 1 (45 minutes)     

"Back in Black" – AC/DC    

"Living on a Prayer" – Bon Jovi     "Rock and Roll" – Led Zeppelin    

"Sweet Home Alabama" – Lynyrd Skynyrd    

"Highway to Hell" – AC/DC    

"Don't Stop Believin'" – Journey    

"Smoke on the Water" – Deep Purple    

"You Really Got Me" – The Kinks    

"Born to be Wild" – Steppenwolf 

 

Set 2 (45 minutes)     

"Another Brick in the Wall" – Pink Floyd    

"Free Bird" – Lynyrd Skynyrd    

"Sweet Child O' Mine" – Guns N' Roses    

"Hotel California" – Eagles    

"Bohemian Rhapsody" – Queen    

"Comfortably Numb" – Pink Floyd     "Paranoid" – Black Sabbath    

"Whole Lotta Love" – Led Zeppelin 

 

Encores     

"We Will Rock You/We Are the Champions" – Queen    

"Hey Jude" – The Beatles 

 

This mix includes a variety of classic rock hits that are sure to energize the crowd and keep them engaged throughout both sets and the encores. Enjoy the gig!

[Stub Mandrel]

Could you make the songs a little more obscure? And add some welsh bands. ChatGPT  Of course! Here’s a revised setlist with some deeper cuts and Welsh bands included: Set 1 (45 minutes)      "Whiskey in the Jar" – Thin Lizzy     "Radar Love" – Golden Earring     "One of These Nights" – Eagles     "Run to the Hills" – Iron Maiden     "The Boys Are Back in Town" – Thin Lizzy     "Since You Been Gone" – Rainbow     "Go Your Own Way" – Fleetwood Mac     "Holiday" – Scorpions     "Delilah" – Tom Jones  Set 2 (45 minutes)      "Rock Bottom" – UFO     "Love Spreads" – The Stone Roses     "Dancing in the Moonlight" – Thin Lizzy     "In a Broken Dream" – Python Lee Jackson (featuring Rod Stewart)     "Don't Believe a Word" – Thin Lizzy     "Nantucket Sleighride" – Mountain     "Roadhouse Blues" – The Doors     "Love Removal Machine" – The Cult  Welsh Band Feature      "Juxtapozed with U" – Super Furry Animals     "Dakota" – Stereophonics  Encores      "Rock and Roll" – Led Zeppelin     "Hey Jude" – The Beatles  This setlist blends some lesser-known classic rock songs with notable tracks from Welsh bands, creating a unique and engaging experience for the audience.

[Dan Dare]

I don't want AI to generate music for me. I want it to take care of the boring, time-consuming cr@p - washing the dishes, doing the laundry, cleaning the toilet, etc - and leave me more time to do things I enjoy, like making music.

[BabyBlueSound]

If I had a penny every time a new technology / approach / genre / instrument completely devalued music... 😁 Like how garage/techno "defeated" all other music with it's simplicity.

 

I mean I get where you're coming from. But about 99% of the world's current human-made music is absolute trash (at least from a very subjective perspective, what exactly makes up the 99% varies), I really don't think the 1% most of humanity will be listening to will actually be premium quality AI made music.

 

I am a lot more concerned about Gen-Z being absolutely crazy about what I consider today's absolute nothingburgers, those crap tracks where there's like a 80 bpm digital drum with 16th-32th hi-hat runs, some bloops and beeps, and a guy or girl basically speaking in an autotuned voice about something in a monotone, bored manner. And there's millions of songs of this same thing. Even AI can do better than THIS.

[Barking Spiders]

On 21/05/2024 at 16:32, Stub Mandrel said:

One thing AI can do is write music that humans can't play. This certainly already applies to sequencers DAWS already, but is AI more likely to come up with, say, shred guitar solos that are physically impossible even with an 8 or 10-string guitar.

 

Scarier still, is AI going to be able to come up with melodically satisfying shred guitar solos that are actually listenable?

If it does then it'll be a first for the world!

[Burns-bass]

AI will destroy the library music industry according to a friend who works in the sector. Instead of licensing music they’ll get AI to create it. 

[TimR]

Some interesting stuff here. Has he come round to it?

 

 

 

[tegs07]

On 25/05/2024 at 11:35, Burns-bass said:

AI will destroy the library music industry according to a friend who works in the sector. Instead of licensing music they’ll get AI to create it. 

There are already cases of this happening as well as voice overs artists getting turned down and AI being used instead.

 

What we need is AI to do all the boring stuff like cleaning, ironing, putting the bins out so humans can have more time to do the creative stuff.

[Earbrass]

[MacDaddy]

8 minutes ago, Earbrass said:

 

 

 

 

 

[TimR]

32 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

There are already cases of this happening as well as voice overs artists getting turned down and AI being used instead.

 

That monotone adjective laden voiceover 'man' and 'woman' are dreadful.  The AI doesn't understand the words or know what they mean, it just knows how to pronounce them. 

 

Hopefully it will improve exponentially or the algorithm learns quickly that people don't want to listen to them. 

[diskwave]

Never mind AI the biggest threat to music today is the simple fact that everyone including the Dog thinks thay can do it. If I have to listen again that horrendous childish chord progression everyone seems to use nowdays....... Couldnt wait to get out of my local tesco the other night. wth?

[Len_derby]

Slight aside. I am currently sitting in the atrium of Derby University campus. It’s an open day, intended to entice youngsters to come as students. I’m here to buy my daughter a coffee as she’s working (student finance advisor). The music pumping through the sound system is a nonstop stream of 80s and 90s hits with a few noughties here and there. At first I was bemused, and then it dawned on me. It’s the accompanying parents they’re trying to butter-up. 🤣

[Baloney Balderdash]

AI is dangerous! 

 

Someone could feed an AU with "Mine Kamph", and it would no doubt end up starting WW2 all over again!

 

As if WWW isn't bad enough as is.

 

I am shaking in my pants of the prospect! 

 

😱

 

Or imagine feeding it with everything Trump has said, and it would run for US president, and win, and the Americans would be stuck listening to hyperbole made up nonsense... again...

 

 

On a more serious note, the only reason you would have to fear AI generated music is if your target audience don't give a shit about music anyway, and then why are you even doing it?

 

If it's for the money then there are plenty of other jobs to take where your work won't be appreciated either.

 

And no big loss, there is plenty of shit being pumped out into the world as is.

 

 

Edited June 22 by Baloney Balderdash

[operative451]

Jumping in with my oar prepared! So i threaded earlier about trying to remember how to use stuff like FL studio and Reaper and have spent the time since mucking about with Reaper and trying to make it do the things that FL studio is good at, while keeping the idea for a song in my head that i'd been able to get a scratched out version of the beats and bass in fl studio before the idea fell out of my ear...

 

I spent a week making a track, which is still unfinished and has evolved in an unexpected way because when i picked up the Actual Instruments (tm), my hands bypassed my brain and went straight to how i was feeling.  I suspect AI can't do that.

 

However, in my plundering of Youtube tutorials on making techno, industrial, and synthwave i came across someone talking about Suno. Went there and described my original idea in depth and the AI made an absolute banger! Actually twice, in about 20 seconds.  Which is fun.  I MIGHT have wasted that week except now i know how to do a bunch of stuff in reaper i didn't know how to do, and i have a bunch of techno bangers to play around with. Plus the first track i made which has gone off on a total rock trip. So AI has allowed me to make what i wanted without needing the skills, which may annoy anyone who's spent the last 20 years learning an instrument, just like drum machines and synths did. It's also unlocking a lot of new sounds and ideas, just like drum machines and synths did..!

 

But lets face it, people still play the hurdy gurdy, and other people go and see them do it.  There's nothing like live music, same as live theatre is a different experience from film or TV...

[gjones]

To paraphrase an old meme...

 

AI came for the coders and I did nothing.

Then it came for the writers, the musicians, the actors and I did nothing.

Then it came for the film makers, the customer service advisors, the accountants, the lawyers, the doctors, the scientists and I did nothing.

Then it came for me.

 

As Elon Musk has stated, unless regulation is implemented to stop it, in ten years from now all the above jobs - and many more - will be carried out more efficiently and more economically by AI than humans.

 

The economic logic, to do so, will be overwhelming

 

But it will only happen if we passively accept it.

 

Edit: Looks like the record labels are fighting back https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ckrrr8yelzvo

Edited June 25 by gjones

[Jonesy]

How long do you think it'll be until you're down the dog & duck on a Friday night and your setlist includes songs written by AI that have charted and been hits? 15-20 years? Sooner?

[TimR]

The latest SBL podcast is quite interesting.

 

The AI can create music, but it's really a tool and needs a human to refine it and make it into something reasonably listenable. 

 

It's like any computer, someone has to program it, sense check and debug the output.